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Messages - SEBC

General Discussion / Recent experience with Sibelius
Hi all
Hope the Spring is being kind to you in your part of the world.

I was recently invited to contribute to a publication of musical settings of the Psalms, but the editor asked for Finale or Sibelius scores, even though I had used NWC to create my score. I downloaded a trial version of Sibelius because I have a friend composer who has Sibelius, and thought she could help me with any issues that I was likely to encounter. It was the right decision because we ended up spending lots of time together and through email trying to get the score ready. I used the xml converter online to get a file that could be imported into Sibelius, but there were a lot of fixes needed as a result.

If you have watched this funny, but true (and therefore not funny in my context) critique of Sibelius
you will understand why I was screaming in frustration at times at the difficulty of doing what should have been very easy tasks, like assigning tempo markings.

I thought I might be tempted to switch, but I am not. The finished score does look a little nicer than the NWC score, but not enough for me to want to change and use a very non-intuitive engraving program that took massive amounts of time to figure out.

Bill Ashworth commented about needing something different than NWC for the appearance of his works, and I thought I would just weigh in here with my fresh and stressful experience. Here is that former thread
General Discussion / Re: Formatting a Song With Verses, Chorus, Bridge, etc.
I am having a similar issue. I am fine until the To Coda section (It doesn't go to the Coda. ) I don't have any special endings or repeat signs. My layout is like this:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
|Text|Text:"SECTION 1"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:6
|Text|Text:"SECTION 2"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:6

User Tools / Re: Change Clef
Hi Opagust

I have been trying out your change clef tool, but I am having difficulty with getting the octave up command to work. If I try, it immediately gives me an error message.
General Discussion / Re: User tool organization
Thank you, Lawrie, for your reply. I think I get the difference now between plug in and object, so thanks for that simple clarification.

While I think of it, there is an object in my list that I could probably delete, but I will check here first: "newObject.test". Also under the list that is generated when I click "Manage objects" is on by the name of "p" at the very top. It says it was used once but is not installed. So I have no idea what that is.

Re: how things ended up in the folders that I have, I do recall having some issues with downloading objects/plug ins from the website and losing them, or not knowing where I had downloaded them to, or where they were supposed to that might account for the CopyPaste plug in ending up in the automatic group.

I have successfully created an "Often Used" group, so thanks for that advice!

General Discussion / User tool organization
Hello everyone, hope you are all well.

I have questions about the "Group" designations under user tools. First, I would like to express appreciation to the hardworking and innovative NWC users who have thought of ways to make this program fit a lot of needs that the original software does not. Thank you! You have saved me from having to switch to one of the other programs. I would rather write music than learn a computer program.

Questions remain, however. It might become very clear that I have no background understanding or knowledge of how computers and software and coding work. (I don't want to know how the sausage is made, I just want to enjoy the finished product. )

First of all, there are certain tools that I use frequently, such as Parts (adp), which is listed under .starter tools.

I use these .Plugins regularly: arpeggio and ottavamatic.

Under .Automatic, I use CopyPasteMeasures.og

I have a lot of others that I don't use, probably because I'm not sure what they do, and I have my own workflow. Also, I rarely remember which group the ones I do use are in, so I find myself hunting on a regular basis, except for the ones that I can just press "J" and pull up the Object box. (and I don't really get the difference between an object and a plug in, so maybe that has nothing to do with the group question which I will now pose).

Could I combine all the ones that I do use frequently into one group? Why or why not? Could I dump all of the others into another group? Why do I need 6 different groups?
General Discussion / Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
So many great questions. When you say editor, do you mean NWC 2 where I do my composing?

Dynamics are the same as the piano.
My editor uses the Windows computer standard sound font. It sounds fine in the editor. Trombone is its own channel. The muting does not  happen on playback in the NCW Viewer as well. I’m not sure how to check what sound font the Viewer is using. The difference appears constant with the three fonts I have loaded (unison 2 , FluidR3, and Titanic)
General Discussion / Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
I often use Unison2. I can’t remember why I chose it, but I did listen to several before making the choice.

I have been having an issue with the trombone though. I’m currently composing for trombone and piano. When I use the “play to” feature in NWC2 viewer to create an MP3, the trombone is quite a bit softer than the piano. I have to reduce the piano channel volume to around 60 to balance it out. That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m using Cool Soft VirtualMidiSynth 2.9.3.

Any ideas what the issue is?
General Discussion / Re: Force a Page Break?
Thanks for your help. You didn’t mention it but this only works on the top staff, for future reference.

I have been using the program for 20 years and am still learning new procedures!
General Discussion / Force a Page Break?
Hello everyone

I am looking at a part score, and seeing that it would be really nice for the performers if I put page two after a couple of rest bars. The problem is that there is a line of music after the rests on page 1. Any tips to achieve a page break?
General Discussion / Re: "Scoring Notes" article on the history of notation programs
It is so interesting to see the NWC and Sibelius scores side by side. Thank you, William and Harald, for making that possible! I haven't had a chance to do a comparison in this way before. I see what you are saying about the readability of the Sibelius score. The notes seem a little chubbier to me, and is the DPI higher for the Sibelius output? It looks crisper, and the background looks whiter on my screen.

Edit to add: William, I really appreciate when you tell us about your experiences! It is something that I have considered, but I just don't have the time right now with my PhD studies to learn a new program. I am always holding out hope that some user adjustments might solve the problems with NWC!

Second edit: Thanks for sharing that article, too, on the history of music notation. It looks like a good read.
General Discussion / Re: 2022 starts
As usual, I'm late to the party! Wishing you all a musical and safe 2022! My teaching/doctoral studies are starting up online again instead of in person, our gyms, restaurants, and schools are currently closed, I've just suspended congregational singing in my church, and ordered a case of N95 masks for's a rough start, but there is hopefully some light at the end of the tunnel for us all!
General Discussion / Re: Import troubles
I usually just let the Import Wizard do its thing when importing MIDI because I don't know what the alternate approach would be.  Are there some "best practices" that I should think about next time?
General Discussion / Re: Season's greetings, merry Christmas, all the best!

This is the second year we had to cancel our choir's advent concert - we had rehearsed a longer composition "Weihnacht" I had written - with NWC, of course - which would have been nice to sing and, hopefully, listen to. So, next try next year!

I'm sorry to hear that, Harald. It is so disappointing for composers, choral directors, and choir members how this pandemic keeps rearing its ugly, non-singing head! I composed and presented lots of solo music instead this past Advent season, but can't wait till we can sing in ensembles once more. I did a graduate composition course that focused on choral music last year...of course, I haven't been able to hear any of the pieces I produced sung yet!
General Discussion / Re: Greetings
Welcome IR

I'm also a longtime user, and find this forum to be invaluable for answering my questions, figuring out solutions, showing me new ways of doing things, and implementing user designed features. It has kept me using NWC all these years, rather than switching to another program. I hope you will enjoy exploring the forum discussions.
General Discussion / Re: Graphics....
I am late to the party, but this is an important discussion!

I’m always interested to hear about your experiences, Bill, now that you are using Sibelius. I have considered switching but I just don’t have time at the moment to think about it due to my doctoral work. It hurts my heart to consider switching. I must have an emotional and practical attachment to NWC. Improved graphics would be so nice and I wonder if any of these things are doable without the developer but as plug ins or objects? I don’t know a thing about coding so…
General Discussion / I've somehow messed up my templates
Hello everyone

I hope you are having a good summer wherever you are in the world.

The last few times I have tried to create a new project, it seems that I have messed up my templates, and they are nowhere to be found. My workaround has been to save an existing project as a new name and delete everything, but that is getting old fast.

Somehow, the "File' -> "New" is opening a different file. How do I redirect it to open the template folder?

Many thanks for your help,
Object Plugins / Re: RepeatMark.test (0.5)
Mike answered me on a different thread, and it was because I had not used any insert spacers alongside the mark. Once I did so, the problem was solved. Thanks for finally finding the question and responding with offers of help, though.  :D
General Discussion / Re: Percussion
Ok, I stand corrected, and have used a percussion clef.  I met virtually with my favourite percussionist and he set me straight on a few things.

I am using the simile mark now --it is a user object I think? I press J to access it under "RepeatMark.test". When the percussion part is extracted on its own, the marks all crowd on top of each other, but are fine when the other instruments are on the score. What I have messed up?

|Text|Text:"Ocean Drum (imitate a slow, rolling wave)"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:10
Object Plugins / Re: RepeatMark.test (0.5)
I am having trouble with the simile marks. When I extract the percussion part from the entire score, they seem to pile up on top of each other, instead of being nicely spread out. I am confused why this is happening, since they look fine with all the other parts are present.

General Discussion / Re: Percussion
You don't use a clef for cymbals, I believe.

So, no annoying drum roll happening on your end. Very odd. I hope that Lloyd will see that I asked this question.

Thanks for checking, Flurmy.
General Discussion / Re: Percussion
|Text|Text:"Suspended Cymbal"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:11
|Text|Text:"soft mallets"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:-8|Justify:Right

I'm not sure if this will show the problem or not.
General Discussion / Percussion

I need to score some percussion parts. I've tried out Lloyd's plug in, but does anyone know how do I turn off the roll sound? I've got the staff muted but I'm still hearing the roll in the playback for the cymbal rolls.

Thanks for your help.
Object Plugins / Re: DrumStaff.fso (version 0.1)
I'm trying out the percussion plug in. How do I turn off the roll sound? I've got the staff muted but I'm still hearing the roll in the playback.

Thanks for your help.
General Discussion / Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?
Will this work on a note that is tied? The second example is just a whole note, but I need to descrendo over several measures of a tied note.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
General Discussion / Re: Warren Porter's Spacer tool
Thank you for your responses on this thread. Once again, I am not being notified of replies, so please excuse my tardiness.

Ok, to summarize, you are recommending that the staves end bar setting be Open (Hidden), with a Force new system mark inserted after a manually inserted closed ending bar.

I have never tried that approach before, but I just experimented and it did line things up. However, when I experimented with adding an extra measure or two before the closed ending bar, the new line contained only that one or two measures, so I would still have to fiddle with spacing, probably by forcing a new system in the previous line ahead of where it automatically wants to do so.

Warren, there are times when I would want to decrease the space, say if there was just one measure on the next line, at the bottom of a page, and I didn't want to start a new page. In that case, your spacer tool would still be helpful, so please don't get rid of it. Is there a way to install it on my computer so that I don't have to rely on the internet to use it?

The issue that I mentioned in my original post would still apply unless there is another way around it which I don't know about yet.

Something to note is that I do not usually tell NWC how many bars per line I want. I usually let the software do its thing and then deal with the ending. Perhaps that is something I need to change in my work flow.

Thank you, Mike, for pointing to the FAQ on this. I had missed this along the way, but I've been using NWC for a long time (inefficiently, so it seems!)
General Discussion / Re: Warren Porter's Spacer tool
Hi Warren

Here is a sample from the end of a score. When the accompaniment is independent of the vocal or instrumental line, then I find I have a lot of fiddling to do to get all the parts spaced out properly. Then if I end up editing the composition (as I often do) then that might all need to be redone. This example is only a few staves, but I have had pieces where there were many parts that needed individual adjustment.

Sorry for not replying earlier. I am not being notified of replies any more, even though I have the notify box checked, so I don't know what's up with that.
General Discussion / Warren Porter's Spacer tool

I'm just popping in to say how helpful this tool has been for me over the years since I started using it. Every time I do, I quietly bless Warren.

What would be an awesome update would be the ability to space multiple staves at the same time. Is that out of question? I don't really know how these things work, just that it saves me a lot of time, and I'm grateful!

General Discussion / Articulation volume adjustment: accents, etc.
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I am really unhappy with how ENTHUSIASTICALLY my accents are being played back by NWC. So  much so that I have had to take them out of the score, which is not actually what I want. I think I read that they are being played at 40% velocity, but I'm sure what that means and how to tame them so they give a reasonable amount of "oomph" but don't make the listener jump.

I guess the same issue is possibly true of other articulations? Any pianists out there? What's the most artistic use of tenuto, levels of staccato, portato, accent, etc?

Thanks for your help,
General Discussion / Re: Rehearsal Marks
Thanks for you answer. I forgot to enable reply notifications, and just saw it now.

Yes, each choir is different.  In my choral conductor training, we were taught to give the location based on the page number, approximate location of the page, lyric, voice parts, and measure number: for example, "Ok, bottom of page 3, the third "All creatures", measure 56, let's hear the bass part". There is still usually a bit of confusion, so I can see how adding measure numbers to our own scores is helpful for everyone involved.

When acting as an adjudicator in musical competitions, each score was required to have handwritten measure numbers for each measure, to aid in our written and verbal assessments of the performers. They would lose marks if they didn't have these measures added to the score.

General Discussion / Re: Changing Page Size
Thank you, everyone, for chiming in. I decided to omit the flute and drum part, and just include the voice and piano parts for the choral version. This gives me two systems per page.

I checked with a choral prof at my university and he said that's quite normal, although the conductor will have the full score, and obviously the instruments will have part scores.
General Discussion / Re: Using Soundfonts with NoteWorthy Composer
I am using Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth already for a long time, but I recently noticed the following strange behavior:
When my PC goes in sleep mode, and has woken up again, NWC cannot find the VirtualMIDISynth driver anymore.
Did someone else perceive the same behavior?

Yes, I have had the same issue but am not sure when it tends to happen. I am having a similar issue with Java not being able to be found by LibreOffice.

General Discussion / Re: Changing Page Size
Hi Harald

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping you would see the question. I have my margins at .5 inches. and am using shortform names, so I tried out using the legal size option in PDFCreator, but I got the same result with just a huge amount of white space between the last staff and the copyright info at the bottom. I'm going to try taking out the instruments other than piano and see what happens.

I should mention that my font size is 16. To get two systems on a page, I need to go down to 12, which isn't practical.
General Discussion / Re: Rehearsal Marks
It's cool that there are multiple ways to accomplish the same goal.

Harald, do you usually put the marks in each part? I have been putting them with the instrumental part (as in a flute part) but not with the piano part or choral part. The score for the pianist and choir will be printed with all parts.  I will print the instrument part alone, for ease in playing with less page turns. My composition prof told me to give the instrumentalist the full score, though, but the players don't seem to prefer that for the performance.

General Discussion / Changing Page Size
Happy New Year to everyone,

I'm working on an SSAA choral piece that includes flute, percussion, and piano, so I'm not happy with how it's looking on the page  - with all those staves (eight), there's only one system that fits per page, so it's a 26 page monstrosity, which isn't really great for the choristers who have so many page turns. If the page size was a little bigger, I could fit two systems. How is this achieved in NWC? I don't see anywhere to change those parameters.

All the best,
General Discussion / Re: Rehearsal Marks
Hi Mike

There is a user tool that you can add to your NWC set up. It is called "Bar". Have a look in the user tool section of the forum for complete instructions. It is super easy once you get the hang of it.
General Discussion / Re: Very Sad news.
So sorry to hear about Rick's passing. He was one of the great NWC advisors on this forum. It's such a terrible time in the world to be sick, which makes it even more difficult for families.