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nwc clip

Please tell me how to open a nwc clip
Thanx Dick

Re: nwc clip

Reply #1 –
Use standard copy (Ctrl C) to select and copy all of the clip including the headers and footers and exclamation marks.
Then in NWC you can either do a standard paste (Ctrl V) while you are positioned on a staff,  or from the Edit menu, select "Paste as new file"
Rich.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #2 –
Does Dick want to open an existing NWC clip, for example an attachment to a posting, or does he want to create a clip?
When I click on a clip attached to a posting I am asked of I want to open it with Noteworthy Composer or some other program.

Tony

Re: nwc clip

Reply #3 –
Folks on this forum tend to post NWCTXT clips as quoted text within posts, rather than as attached files.  There are several possible reasons for this:

  • They are unaware that they can easily authenticate themselves as licensed NWC 2.X users, giving them the ability (among other things) to attach files to posts.  See https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5483.0 for details.
  • They are unaware that NWCTXT clips can be placed into an NWCTXT file for attachment to a post.  Yes, NWC can load NWCTXT clip format from an NWCTXT file!
  • They are unaware that a little extra work on their part (to create and attach an NWCTXT file) can save much more work on the readers' parts, by allowing them to simply click on the file rather than cut and paste.

IMHO, folks should try to always post examples as attached files, even if they are just a single object in the extreme!  (One annoyance however is that the burden of choosing a unique file name is placed on the user - too bad the forum can't auto-generate a unique file name upon submission.)

Re: nwc clip

Reply #4 –
Can't agree with you, Randy. IMO, clip text included in the body of the post is far preferable to attached files. I find highlighting and copying text in a forum post and then pasting into a blank NWC score much easier than downloading a file and then hunting down where-did-I-download-it-too-this-time, and it doesn't clutter my machine with little extra files all over the place. There are appropriate uses for attached files (e.g., long multi-staff examples, or non-NWC notation), but I hope that in most cases people will keep posting regular nwctxt in line.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
Folks on this forum tend to post NWCTXT clips as quoted text within posts, rather than as attached files.  There are several possible reasons for this:
  • They are unaware
  • They are unaware
  • They are unaware
IMO, ignorance has nothing to do with it.

I can only find 3 nwctxt examples posted as quoted text by non-authenticated members:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6664.msg45622#msg45622
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7019.msg48190#msg48190
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6777.msg46455#msg46455
I agree that some of these are not the best use of quoting material, but they join a very long list of quotes that would be better as attachments. These three have been members for years. I doubt that they do not know how to authenticate. Everyone should buy NWC since it is such a wonderful program, but we tend to help them anyhow, so long as they don't become a nuisance :-)

There are a few that came from a member that is now a Virtuoso. When she posted them, she had puchased NWC, but since she lives in the far east, the CD allowing her to authenticate was delayed. Quoting nwctxt was one of her few options for getting help at that time.

The rest came from long-time Virtuosi or the Admin. I strongly suspect that none of them quoted nwctxt out of ignorance.
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #6 –
Hi William - You are welcome to your preference.  But particularly for inexperienced users, I think the file attachment is far superior.  It is not at all intuitive that quoted text can be copied-and-pasted directly into NWC (where it magically becomes graphical notation), and we often have to explain to users how to do this.  Further, the mechanics of selecting all the quoted text (no more, no less) are not trivial, via mouse grabbing.  Also consider that the user may not have NWC running, and has to start it up on their own (or at least select the window manually if it happens to be already running).  Contrast this with a file attachment, where it couldn't be more trivial and intuitive to simply click on the file.  If you are having to "hunt down" where it got dowloaded to, then you may have something configured wrong!  It should come up automatically in NWC, without ever knowing where the actual file was.  (And if you're worried about tiny nwctxt files "cluttering" up your disk, then you'd be amazed at the huge "temp" files that constantly get left on your disk by NWC and other applications!)

Hi Richard - I think you are confusing NWCTXT files with NWCTXT file format.  I did not suggest that folks put their entire song file into an attachment when only a particular clip is relevant.  I agree it would be silly to bury the example within a song!  What I suggested was putting the clip (and the clip only) in an NWCTXT file.  It would still be in the NWCTXT clip format, but it would be much more trivial and intuitive for users to load that clip than via copy-and-paste.  The end result is identical - it's just that a bit more work by the poster (to create and attach a file) makes it easier on many readers.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #7 –
Hi Rick - I did not attempt to sort my list into "priority" or "likelihood" order.  If I had, I certainly would have listed my first point last!  I agree that most users who are experienced enough to post quoted clip text are likely experienced enough to have authenticated themself.  (Although you might consider that folks who currently show up as authenticated may well not have been at the time they made some of their posts of quoted text clips.)  I think it's most likely that folks don't know an NWCTXT file can contain simply an NWCTXT clip - I didn't know this until I tried it just today!  I also think some folks don't believe what I believe, that [startrek] the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or one) [/startrek].  I personally am quite guilty of posting clips as quoted text, out of laziness.  I am proposing not what I've been doing, or want to do, but what I feel I (and others) should do, particularly to help the inexperienced.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #9 –
Sorry, Randy, I still think you're ridin' the wrong hoss. There are plenty of examples here on the forum of both files to download and cliptext to grab and drop into a staff, and for my money grabbing the text and dropping it into a staff is worlds easier. If you're having trouble with the mouse grab, try starting at the end of the last line - positioning the starting click there isn't nearly as difficult, or as critical, as it is at the top LH corner, and letting go at the right time at the top LH is much easier than starting there. And I think you missed the point on the files cluttering my hard drive - which may be my fault for not being clear enough. It's not the space they take that concerns me (I'm working on a laptop with a 500 gig HD, so that's hardly an issue). It's the proliferation of files with names I can't recognize spattered through my directories and making it hard to spot the files I want amidst the chaff. Yes, I know I could delete them when I finish looking at them right after the download. But then I have to download them again if I want to re-examine them in light of later comments, whereas with cliptext I can just go to the original post and grab again. So please, folks, keep those in-line clips a-comin'. You can attach a file for Randy also, if you like, but if you do that, please treat it as an addition, not as a substitute.

Bill

Re: nwc clip

Reply #10 –
Hi William,
When I click on an attached File, I get two options: 'Open' or 'Download'. When I choode the 'Open' option, then NWC opens automatically with the file.
I can then exit without saving, so no garbage left on my disk.
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: nwc clip

Reply #11 –
Hi William - I understand that you are attached to the process of copy-and-paste, but how you can say it is easier at all (let alone "worlds" easier) than an attachment is beyond my comprehension!  I have never myself had any trouble with mouse grabbing - I have however seen a post or two about others having this problem.  And more important, as I said earlier, just the idea of grabbing text and pasting into NWC is not at all obvious or intuitive to the inexperienced.  How can simply clicking on a "hypertext" attachment link (and selecting the routine "open") be harder than any other method?!

You also seem unclear on the file situation - the attached file is not placed in "your" directories where it can make it difficult to spot other files.  It is placed in a "hidden" directory for temporary internet files.  If you ever plan on searching any of those directories for some reason, then downloaded NWC files are not going to be the problem for you.  On my PC, the relevant directory has over 500 files, with a total of over 6 Meg of data.  The one NWC file I just dowloaded is less than 400 bytes - neither the one file nor its size is going to bother me in the slightest.  Shoot, the NWC forum seems to put far more files (and bytes) in that directory "behind the scenes" than I'll ever put there with my downloads.

I am not arguing here for something I want for the sake of me - I have had no trouble whatsoever with copy-and-paste clips.  I am arguing here for something I think would be better to the less experienced folks who join the forum, both now and in the future (when looking back at old posts).

Re: nwc clip

Reply #12 –
There is one advantage of cliptext in a post over attachments that no one seems to be mentioning...


This is that you can SEE the relevant code and comment on it when describing how to fix a problem.  This is particularly relevant when discussing user tool functionality, but not limited to discussions of that nature.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: nwc clip

Reply #13 –
Hi Lawrie - You have come up with a good counterpoint!  When the post is more discussing the raw NWCTXT implementation, and less discussing the resulting graphical notation, I agree that having the clip right in the post is better.  This has been particularly good when the poster uses colors (or other highlighting) to draw attention to the relevant field/value.  (Such highlighting does not interfere with someone who still wants to copy-and-paste such a clip to NWC for some reason!)  Of course, this still does not change my main point, which is that clips intended primarily to be viewed within NWC are easier handled by inexperienced folks via file attachments.  :-)

One other advantage to files - they open up directly into NWC with the name of the song (and hence the name of the tab) clearly identified by whatever the poster named the example file.  With clips, I have to create a new song (with associated forced acceptance of both the template and songinfo) before I can paste, and the tab ends up unnamed.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #14 –
This debate is primarily about personal preferences. 

When I'm trying to discuss some glitch in measures 101 to 104 on the sixth staff of a big band chart, copying the clip into my message is a lot easier than isolating those bars in a new song file, saving that and then locating it with Additional Options/Browse (which involves navigating through my directories to find the file).

I paste clips when it's convenient, and I attach song files or images when that is more convenient.  I like the flexibility.

I also agree with Lawrie.  Sometimes it's much easier to find how someone did something neat if you can read the text - it isn't always obvious in the NWC file.

I agree it's easier to open an attachment than to isolate the opening exclamation mark and copy from there to the end of the clip, but I have no strong preference.

My 2 cents  worth. 

Happy new year, everyone!



 


Re: nwc clip

Reply #15 –
Hi David - I actually don't bother to isolate the bars into a new song file!  I simply copy the bars to the clipboard (which one has to do either way), and then I paste them into a Notepad session (I have a shortcut to bring this up quickly).  I save the file from Notepad (into an appropriately-named ".nwctxt" file) right in the default "My Documents" directory, then I load the file as an attachment right from the "My Documents" directory.  No navigating required!  But I definitely agree it's about 15 seconds easier to copy-and-paste directly into the post than it is to create an attachment.  I have never argued it's easier on the poster to attach a file - only that it can save many others varying amounts of trouble, based on their experience level!  (Ironically, I suspect most folks already copy-and-paste their clip into Notepad, as part of creating their post in an environment more conducive to long text than the forum's web page!)

By the way, if you ever pull up a file attachment and want to see the clip text for it, I recommend NWSW's nwctxt file explorer (or my nwctxt file editor), for superior and convenient access to the nwctxt for a file, over viewing the text within the forum.  The explorer is particularly handy for user tool designers, to be able to see how the PHP objects resulting from the nwctxt will look.  (And the editor is particularly handy for colorizing the nwctxt automatically, so fields and values are easier to pick out.)

Re: nwc clip

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
I simply copy the bars to the clipboard (which one has to do either way), and then I paste them into a Notepad session (I have a shortcut to bring this up quickly).  I save the file from Notepad (into an appropriately-named ".nwctxt" file) right in the default "My Documents" directory, then I load the file as an attachment right from the "My Documents" directory. 
Seems to accomplish the same thing as:
  • CTRL+C
  • CTRL+SHIFT+V
  • CTRL+S
Have you found some magic property of nwctxt files have over nwc files as forum attachments?
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #17 –
Hi Rick - I was not at all familiar with CTRL+SHIFT+V!  It seems like a fine alternate solution (and also so few extra keystrokes/mouseclicks so as to not be worth counting).  I have not meant to specify NWCTXT over NWC files - the main point is just about using file attachments over quoted text.  Either format achieves this end equally well.

By the way, another advantage to file attachments is that you can see how many times the clip has been viewed (or at least downloaded anyway).  With copy-and-paste, you can't tell how many folks viewing the post actually bothered to view the clip.  But perhaps some folks may like such information to remain hidden.  :-)

Re: nwc clip

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
Do you have a version of that to open the Viewer instead? TIA
It uses whatever is associated with nwctxt files.

One advantange to associating nwctxt files with the Viewer is that they can be sent to NWC2 with one click of a button.

If you manage to mess things up while experimenting, I recommend uninstalling the Viewer via the Control Panel and reinstalling it.
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #21 –
Of course, if folks took a few extra seconds to attach files instead of imbed examples, you wouldn't need PasteAsFile?  ;-)  Actually, I see now that Ctrl+Shift+V makes it much easier to copy-and-paste a clip - I used to think you had to create a new song tab (with associated selection of template, and cancelling of song info) before using Ctrl+V!  So PasteAsFile allows one to select an entire forum page, instead of finding and selecting a clip?  Does it handle multiple clips found, putting each in a separate staff I'd guess?  Is there anything else it automates?

As an aside, can you tell me the syntax for having any old text in a post become a hypertext link?  I know how to do it in emails for example, but I'm unaware of how to (presumably) leverage the "url" tag to do this in a post.  Thanks!

Re: nwc clip

Reply #22 –
I see we've progressed from ignorant to lazy :-)

Quote from: Randy Williams –
As an aside, can you tell me the syntax for having any old text in a post become a hypertext link?
See: Insert Hyperlink <here>.
If you need help with PasteAsFile, ask <here>
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #23 –
Highlight your text, click on the "insert hyperlink" button, and add an equal sign and the url you want to link to after the first backeted "url". Looks like "url=somehyperlink.com" inside the first set of brackets. And by the way, Randy, there are much easier ways to handle inserting cliptext with ctrl/v than you have been using. If you don't have NWC set to use a template every time it creates a new file, all you have to do is click on the "new file" button and then hit enter twice to get a clean staff. Even easier: just add a new staff to the music file you're currently working on and paste the text there. You can delete the staff as soon as you're done with it.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #25 –
Well....you don't. I should have simply said "...if you don't use a template..." Evidently Randy doesn't know that you don't have to. I was trying to emphasize the point. Silly me.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #26 –
Ignorant, lazy or whatever, when I have an observation to make or a problem to solve, and wish to post it on the forum, I want to convey my message in the quickest, easiest way possible.  By the time I fiddle around with the various alternatives, my train of thought will be derailed.  My objective is to notate a score, not be distracted by alternative ways to describe my problem or idea in the forum.  As I wrote below, this whole thread is about personal preferences.  I'll not complain how others post their examples if they will accept that I want the freedom to choose how I post mine.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #27 –
Sorry guys - ignorant, lazy me was clicking the "OK" button to select a blank template, and then clicking the "OK" button again to accept the default song information.  Wow.  All this time I could have been hitting Enter twice!!  If only I had something to work on during all the time all be saving.  :-)

Re: nwc clip

Reply #28 –
Hi Guys ..an interesting conversation.....By the way... Can anybody tell me how to open a nwc clip?

Re: nwc clip

Reply #29 –
Quote from: rikbel –
Hi Guys ..an interesting conversation.....By the way... Can anybody tell me how to open a nwc clip?
I find the easiest way is to highlight the entire clip, <Ctrl-C> to put it in the clipboard then open NWC and select <Shift-Ctrl-V> or |Edit|Paste as New File|

When highlighting make sure you get the entire clip, including the leading "!"
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #30 –
Hey !  have a look at the very first reply to your question.
Rich.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #31 –
Earlier this week, we released several improvements in this area.

1) There is a button in the full post editor for adding [code=nwc] blocks.

2) All code blocks can be quickly selected using the "Select" link as shown below:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"Ta Da!"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

A built-in *.nwctxt "View" link should appear soon. It is currently in testing.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
nice improvement to forum posting.
Really? Font used for Code is much less readable than the font used for Quote. Code doesn't support color, bold, italic, font, size. I'll stay with Quote for now.
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Really?

I think so, because it's so much easier to select the clip using the select option at the top of the box.
The ability to select the clip is something many people have commented on - and now Eric has done something about it.
Rich.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #35 –
I agree with Rich that the new "code" block is a great improvement - much easier to use. I don't see the lack of text attributes as a problem. The large majority of users are going to simply paste the cliptext onto an NWC staff instead of reading it directly, anyway. Varying text attributes within the clip are just a distraction.

However, I agree with Rick that the font needs to be adjusted. I've pasted Eric's example in below in both styles. Judge for yourself.

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"Ta Da!"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"Ta Da!"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

I think the difference in background color is enough to differentiate the two quote styles: the font should be the same.

Bill

Re: nwc clip

Reply #36 –
I will review the font used in code blocks.

Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
A built-in *.nwctxt "View" link should appear soon. It is currently in testing.

This became a download link, and it appears now on any code block found in forum topics. If the block is tagged as php, py, nwc, nwctxt, or nwcitree, then it will automatically have the appropriate extension when it is downloaded.

Some examples:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"Ta Da!"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Code: (nwcitree) [Select · Download]
# Sample NWC instrument tree

\Piano
Acoustic Grand Piano=0
Bright Acoustic Piano=1
Electric Grand Piano=2
Honky-tonk Piano=3
Rhodes Piano=4
Chorused Piano=5
Harpsichord=6
Clavinet=7

Code: (php) [Select · Download]
<?php
// This is a small php script

echo "Hello World\n";
?>


This example demonstrates that there are still a few issues to work out.... Should be fixed.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #37 –
Great solution NWSW!  Inexperienced folks can do the simple and intuitive "download", and experienced folks can now even easier do the copy-and-paste they're used to (although any chance the "select" could do the copy to clipboard for them as well? :-).

Re: nwc clip

Reply #38 –
Nice work, Eric!

Re: nwc clip

Reply #39 –
I know that "select" for a file (as opposed to a clip) won't help, as NWC only allows pasting of a clip to a single staff.  But is it possible that "download" could support a file, if it doesn't already?  I'm trying this in another thread without success.

Re: nwc clip

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
is it possible that "download" could support a file
It does. Here are two clips from: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5368.0
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.0)
|AddStaff
|StaffProperties|Layer:Y|
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-4,n-2,0,b3
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,n-2,0,3|Opts:XAccSpace=1
|AddStaff
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-4z,0z,b3z|Opts:StemLength=0,NoLegerLines,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: nwc clip

Reply #41 –
Ok, I think what happened is that I tried the file text first without the header/footer (I'd used my nwctxt file editor to copy the text, and it had stripped them).  I immediately added them, but it appears that the forum server held onto my original copy of the nwc code, even as I was modifying its block visually.  Bottom line is to not make a mistake with file (or clip) text, as you may not be able to fix it (in that particular post).