Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

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Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

2006-01-10 07:32 am

NoteWorthy is usually very good at this, but ...

My source, Warner Bros. Publications Inc. uses the positioning in the second note and I agree with them.
Layer these 2 staves:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
# Layer with next staff
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-4,n-2,0,b3
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,n-2,0,3|Opts:XAccSpace=1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-4z,0z,b3z|Opts:StemLength=0,NoLegerLines,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

Reply #1 – 2006-01-10 08:39 am

I'm looking at a Warner Bros. book now. I agree it seems as if, where there are 3 altered notes close to each other in a chord, the middle sign gets pushed left. Where there are only 2 altered notes, the lower one seems to be the one realigned.

[abbr=in his The Complete Arranger, using either a handwritten or jazz font face]Nestico[/abbr] seems to do the same with 3 altered notes, but where there are 4 altered notes in a chord, he puts the lowest and the third signs out to the left, and the second and fourth close to the noteheads.

Strayhorn seems to align the signs [abbr=see his autographed manuscript on page 190 of Something to Live For, The Music of Billy Strayhorn, by Walter van de Leur]vertically[/abbr], but musicologist Walter van de Leur seems to do the same as Nestico.

Again, with 3 altered notes, Mark Tucker in his The Duke Ellington Reader, page 416, reproduces a transcription by Gunther Schuller which puts the middle sign out to the left, a la Warner Bros.

I imagine there is a music notation bible of some sort out there to set the standard.

Re: Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

Reply #2 – 2006-01-10 09:51 am

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. A jazz standard is an oxymoron isn't it? I wish I could find some standards. University of Colorado and LilyPond try, but are woefully incomplete.

My normal reference is G. Schirmers' 54 Piano Pieces from the modern repertoire, which has some of the hardest to reproduce bits imaginable.

This is like the Scotch snap problem. Easy to workaround, but hard to spot ...
Until you screw up in front of 100 people ...

Yeah, I know, I should catch these things in practice. But when I've finished notating a piece, I've spent so much time with it that I know how to play most of it, but 6 months later when I pull it out to do a request, the errors hit me.

Re: Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

Reply #3 – 2006-01-10 11:04 am

G'day all,
I read up a bit on this in my Alfred's "Essential Dictionary of Musical Notation". It has quite a bit to say about the placement of accidentals but a few specific excerpts may help:

Alignment for Intervals:
- For intervals of a 2nd through a 6th, place the upper accidental closest to the note, the lower accidental to the left.
- When intervals are greater than a 6th, accidentals align vertically.
- For the interval of a 6th, if the two accidentals don't collide they may be aligned vertically.
Alignment for Chords (3 notes)
- When outer notes are a 6th or less, the upper accidental is closest the note, the lower accidental is placed left, and the middle accidental is placed farthest left.
- When outer notes are greater than a 6th, upper and lower accidentals are aligned closest to the notes - the middle accidental is placed to the left.
Alignment for Chords (More than 3 Notes)
- When dealing with accidentals for complex chords, rules are treated more as guidelines or suggestions. Keep the arrangement of the accidentals as compact as possible.
Make the arrangement of accidentals as easy to read as possible for the situation.
- Align the highest and lowest accidentals whenever possible
- The Centre accidentals are usually arranged diagonally from highest to lowest.
- Align accidentals for octaves whenever possible.
- Accidentals for the 2nd should usually be shaped like the 2nd (if the outer notes are greater than a 6th).
  
  The upper accidental is placed closest to the note, the lower accidental to the left.
- Accidentals are always placed before the entire note structure. (Do not place an accidental between notes that are played together, even if they are stemmed in opposite direction.)

The second example fits the pattern as described by my buddy Alf.

Say Rick, a jazz standard an oxymoron? What about "Basin St. Blues" or "In the Mood" - they're standards aren't they? <vbg>

Lawrie

Re: Accidental positioning anomaly in 1y

Reply #4 – 2006-01-10 01:19 pm

Thanks Lawrie. I'm going to look Alfred up the next time I'm at a used book store. I wonder if the rules are the same for dbl#. Seems one could start packing closer than a sixth. G. Schirmer (probably the biggest US publisher) also "half tucks" flats for a nice effect. They also start closer, clipping half the leger line if needed. 'Spose that's too much to ask of NoteWorthy.