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Topic: 1812 Overture (Read 273284 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #100 –
Wow!  I'm number 100!
What do I win?

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #101 –
A 21-gun salute would be appropriate.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #102 –
I think that the 1812 Overture was great and I think he wrote that song or theme because he hated war and was happy to see it over. So I think Tchaikowsky was happy. Also I typed this because I was looking if Tchaikowsky hated War or not for a music project I'm doing. I happened to come aross this and I typing this now.

Rachel

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #103 –
Tchaikovsky was only born 25 years after the war finished! And the piece was written 68 years after the retreat from Moscow. Whatever his feelings about war in general, he certainly wouldn't be too influenced personally by the Napoleonic Wars. He might have been influenced by the Crimean War as a teenager, but I doubt it. The nineteenth century was (from 1815 onwards) on the whole actually quite peaceful compared to other centuries.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #104 –
As I pointed out in reply 93 above, Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write the music.  I doubt very much that it had anything to do with a dislike of war.  Indeed the piece is a "flag-waver," likely to stir the blood.

His Marche Slav, on the other hand, could be a protest (although I doubt it...)

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Reply #105 –
The Crimean War was fought near the Crimea River.

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Reply #106 –
I would say that the Crimean War was fought on the Crimea Peninsula, in t e Black Sea. Florence Nighingale earned eternal acclaim there.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #107 –
Crimea River    =    Cry Me a River

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Reply #108 –
Near the Eyecryda River.

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Reply #109 –
Over You.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #110 –
I, too, found this thread while searching for the lyrics of the Russian Orthodox hymn used at the beginning of the 1812 Overture.  After having heard numerous times my recording of a performance that opens with a choir instead of a cello, I have to say that the interpretation of the lyrics in this thread is pretty much on the money.  I disagree at only one point--I definitely hear the line you all have rendered "Grant us, O Lord, peace again" as "Grant us, O Lord, peace. Amen."  I don't hear the guttural quality of a hard "G" in any voice part at that point.  But perhaps the choir saw fit to "swallow" its enunciation for the sake of a smooth slide into the next pitch.  What do you all think?

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #111 –
I can't offer an opion on the 1812 lyrics, but as a choir singer I can tell you that once in a while, a word is changed for better singability.

I have seen (in print) two versions of Gounod's Ave Maria; one ended in "Ave, Ave," and the other ended in "Amen, Amen."

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #112 –
Robert A. in reply 65 said: Feel free to put your ten cents' worth in, so as I am a poor Englishman here is my tuppence worth. My CD of this work is in Post Office Red - or very near to - is that a warning to keep away, or to ensure that you can easily spot it in the heap? Tina B knowing what I think of PT will probably guess that I agree with PT's assessment of the work as reported by Casey in repy 23. Even so, it is worth listening to from time to time, what was it that the Bard made Prince Harry say? Something about his early life being a foil that would make his later seem so much better.

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Reply #113 –
1812 is the best peice of music written

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Reply #114 –
By what criteria are you evaluating it?

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Reply #115 –
There seem to be two different hymns listed in these postings, given the English translations of them.  We have the Russian words for one of them, but not the other - the one that most people are transcribing (unless I'm being stupid?  Quite possible).  I would love a copy of the words and music, if anyone can offer them.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #116 –
I used to listen to this all the time (over and over, I mean, it was on 8-track).  It may be the same English version talked about above.  I haven't listened to it for about 25 years, but I seem to recall the words "Oh Mighty God hear our prayer, and save our people, forevermore" at the end of the singing, and the start of the orchestra.  It was either the Columbia or RCA version with the "Serenade for Strings" as the other piece.  8-tracks don't have a flip side, of course.

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Reply #117 –
It was Columbia, Eugene Ormandy and The Philadelphia.

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Reply #118 –
As an American-born Russian Orthodox Christian, who has sung and heard "O Lord Save They People" throughout my entire life, I wondered if many non-Orthodox Americans  cared about the lyrics (especially with all of the 4th of July exposure). It's been interesting to read all of your responses, questions, concerns.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #119 –
<<I'd like to say it represented the War of 1812 between Britain and the US -=- Canadians (Brits?) burnt the White House and we are certain we won the war -=- but it wasn't written for that purpsoe.

Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write it to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Russia's victory over Napoleon in 1812.>.

You brought back memories from 1970.  I actually had a history teacher tell us that "the 1812 Overture was about the War of 1812."  When I offered a polite "Scuse me..." and mentioned that it referred to Napoleon etc., I was rebuked with "The War of 1812 was like World War I and World War II - it took place in LOTS of countries."

Of course, I hear and sing "God Save Thy People" a lot now, in church, and have often wondered about what happened to that teacher and if any of the other kids were ever impacted by what she said regarding her imagined 19th Century World War.....probably not.

Another use for the song - we often use it as the song that accompanies the entrance of bishops and other members of the head table at banquets etc.  It fits nicely.

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Reply #120 –
Subdeacon P's comments brought back memories of a grade school experience, years ago... The school had vocabulary lists, containing words and definitions, to be memorized and tested each week. One week, "keek" was defined as part of a ship's hull. No amount of persuasion, backed by any dictionary however large or small, could persuade the teacher that the word should be "keel."

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Reply #121 –
Teachers are not always correct (they are human...).
The good teachers are the ones who can admit it.

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Reply #122 –
Here it is 2007 and I found this thread.  It was very helpful for a Nana looking for answers for her 9 year old grandson.  [That should have been for (4) year old. . . ]

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #123 –
I liked the P.D.Q. Bach's version: The 1712 Overture, just a little ahead of its time.  It featured such classic themes as "Pop Goes the Weasel", chirping birds (and crows), and a rock organ. <g>
Since 1998

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #124 –
Wow, this thread had been frozen for nearly three years (and by frozen I mean that no more replies were being accepted).
Glad to see it's thawed.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #125 –
@warren
We are going to do a PDQ Bach project, including "Die Kanarienvogelkantate". I am new to PDQ Bach, but I am already having fun. What to think of "My bonny lass she smileth" seemlessly followed by "My bonny lass she smelleth" ?

(and btw, I saw that way back I never answered the Crimea River thing. The whole thing must have escaped me at the time. I am sure I would have said something about Joe Cocker.)

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #126 –
Quote
btw, I saw that way back I never answered the Crimea River thing.

"Now you say you're sorry"

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #127 –
Will an allusion do? It seems to be the hardest word.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #128 –
Well, happiness is just an allusion!
Robin

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #129 –
Well, then I will be more than happy to say I'm sorry.
I have to be straightforward here, because I am not an allusionist.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #130 –
We could just nag you until you give an answer to the old question.

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Reply #131 –
42.

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Reply #132 –
Gee I am sure Napoleon was also in on this deal somewhere.Something about
a canon if I remember correctly,which made the audience go nuts.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #133 –
I like the way "Hysteria!" depicted Napolean-- short and fat, somewhat penguin-like in his build.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #134 –
I'm absolutely amazed that nobody has posted the actual lyrics to this hymn, especially when they're listed on the back of so many recordings of the 1812 Overture.  (I actually ran across this thread trying to win a bet with my son that the lyrics could be found online.)  I don't have the lyrics in Russian, but these are the English lyrics commonly sung in modern presentations of the Overture.

God, Preserve Thy People
Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and love, thine inheritance.
Grant vict'ry o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies,
And to our land bring peace.
O Mighty Lord, hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining, holy light
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O Mighty Lord, hear our prayer and save our people.
Forever, forever.  Amen.

After three years, the original question posted on this topic has finally been answered, and the next time a music student starts looking for the lyrics - here they are.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #135 –
Quote
canon
Very canonical?

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #136 –
Has there been a time warp with this thread?

Tony

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #137 –
Has there been a time warp with this thread?

Tony

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #138 –
Don't know, but there does seem to be an echo.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #140 –
Twelve minutes past six seems a little early for an Overture, was it a late matinee.
I'll understand all this $thing-> $somethingelse one day...

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #142 –
In response to Reply# 92 "What does the 1812 Overture commemorate?"

It commemorates Napoleon's attempted invasion of Russia in 1812, resulting in decisive Russian victory and decimating the French Army, widely considered to be the decisive turning point in the Napoleonic Wars and one of the great high points in Russian military history.

The music can be interpreted as a fairly literal depiction of the campaign: in June of 1812, the previously undefeated French Allied Army of over half a million battle-hardened soldiers and almost 1200 state-of-the-art guns (cannons, artillery pieces) crossed the Niemen river into Lithuania on its way to Moscow. The Russian Orthodox Patriarch of All the Russias, aware that the Russian Imperial Army could field a force only a fraction of this size, inexperienced and poorly equipped, called on the people to pray for deliverance and peace. The Russian people responded en masse, gathering in churches all across Russia and offering their heartfelt prayers for divine intervention (the opening hymn). Next we hear the ominous notes of approaching conflict and preparation for battle with a hint of desperation but great enthusiasm, followed by the distant strains of La Marseillaise (the French National Anthem) as the French approach. Skirmishes follow, as the battle goes back and forth, but the French continue to advance and La Marseillaise becomes more prominent and victorious - almost invincible. The Tzar now appeals to the spirit of the Russian people in an eloquent plea to come forward and defend the Rodina (Motherland). As the people in their villages consider his impassioned plea, we hear traditional Russian folk music. La Marseillaise returns in force with great sounds of battle as the French approach Moscow. The Russian people begin to stream out of their villages and towns toward Moscow to the increasing strains of folk music and, as they gather together, there is even a hint of celebration. Now La Marseillaise is heard in counterpoint to the folk music as the great armies clash on the plains west of Moscow, and Moscow burns. As all seems hopeless, God intervenes, bringing an unprecedented deep freeze with which the French cannot contend. The French attempt to retreat, but their guns, stuck in the freezing ground, are captured by the Russians and turned against them. Finally, the guns are fired in celebration and church bells all across the land peal in grateful honor of their deliverance from their "treacherous and cruel enemies."

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #143 –
Patrick:  Welcome to the NWC community!

To add to your description, there is a long section where every repetition starts on a little lower pitch than the one before; ending with the low brass just before the random bells and celebration begins.  I was told that depicted the French retreat.
Since 1998

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #144 –
Quote from: pbp908 –
...
After three years, the original question posted on this topic has finally been answered, and the next time a music student starts looking for the lyrics - here they are.

Three years and a bit. The topic started in 1999. And is still interesting to (re-)read.

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #145 –
Here is part of tropar (тропарь) from 1812:

Спаси, Господи, люди Твоя  (Save, O Lord, Your people)
и благослови достояние Твое, (and bless Your heritage)
победы православным Христианом на сопротивныя даруя  (Victory to Orthodox Christians fighting resistance to the Gift)
и Твое сохраняя Крестом Твоим жительство.  (and Your Cross and maintaining belief in Your existence.

Вознесыйся на Крест волею,  (Ascend to the Cross by Your will)
тезоименитому Твоему новому жительству,  (the Holy Name Day of Czar Family, to Your new existence,)
щедроты Твоя даруй, Христе Боже,  (literal: Your gift of largesse - or gift of grace, Christ Jesus God)
возвесели силою Твоею верныя люди Твоя,  (Your true people are glad in Your power - or strength)
победы дая нам на сопостаты,  (Grant us victory over the apostates - or unbelievers, likely the unorthodox, as no other faith is considered true)
пособие имущим Твое оружие мира,  (and blessings, which are your weapons of peace,)
непобедимую победу.  (and invincible victory.)

Here is a link to a part of this tropar, written in the old russian:  http://www.drevglas.ru/b1/684.html

You may contact me at me@mail.az if you want to know more about this.

Spasibo bolshoe,
Rostislav

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #146 –
Hi everyone!!!

I'm new here, but i found this theme awesome!!

I sing on a choir and I want to share with you my experience.

I sang the overture in russian and here is the translation of the score:

Spasi Gospodi lyudi Tvoya
i blagoslovi dostoyaniye Tvoye.
Pobedi boryushimsyaza veru pravuyu
i zasvyatuyu rus.
nasoprotivniya daruya
i Tvoye so cranyaya
Krestom Tvoim zhitelstvo
Krestom Tvoim, Krestom Tvoim
Krestom!

Music...

Bozhe tsarya crani,
sil ni der zhavni,
tsarstvui na slavu,
tsarstvui na straj vragam

I leave the link on youtube is on 2 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7MIxTj0h8

Hope you like it!!!

Re: 1812 Overture

Reply #147 –
Terrific!

What a great experience.  Half your luck.

Bill.