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Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael King on 1999-08-18 04:00 am

Title: 1812 Overture
Post by: Michael King on 1999-08-18 04:00 am
About five years ago I bought my first CD player! I immediately went nuts buying CD's. Including three, yes three, copies of Tchaikovsky's Fourth symphony. On one of those CD's was the 1812 Overture. Far out I thought. Wait! What's this?! There is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir SINGING what appears to be a hymm to the first part of it. I had never heard this before. Now comes the QUESTION! Where can I get those words? As some of them are sung very softly or drawn out, I cannot make them out. Does anybody perchance know where I might find the words? If it will help, I can give you the start. Help? Please? Thanks.

Michael King
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Paul Nordgren on 1999-08-19 04:00 am
If I remember correctly, this part of 1812 contains a Russian Orthodox liturgical hymn -"tropar"- which starts with the words "Spasí, Góspodi, ljoúdi tvojá..." (in Church Slavonic), meaning "Save, o Lord, Thy people...". In Tsarist Russia, not only the "people" but also the name of the reigning Tsar (and sometimes even his family) was mentioned in the hymn and I don't now remember the name of the Tsar in 1812. If your interested, I can send you the full text (modern version) and music (NWC, of course)as sung today in the Russian Orthodox Church, but certainly Tchajkosky's version is more elaborated and meant for a bigger choir than the version actually used in the Russian Church today.

Best wishes
Paul
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Peter Edwards on 1999-08-19 04:00 am
Two suggestions:

1. They are singing the old (imperial) Russian National Anthem.

2. They are singing 'God the all-terrible! King' which is hymn number 491 in 'Hymns Ancient & Modern Revised'.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Michael King on 1999-08-19 04:00 am
Paul and Peter:

Say you two aren't saints are you?:) I thank you both for your replies. I just started the CD and it starts out "O mighty God, preserve us from jeopardy", then it trails off so I can't understand what they are singing. Darn male voices anyhow!

Paul, I would love the words and music. Thank you very much!

Peter, where do I find that hymm book? Never mind, I'll just have to go looking for it I suppose.

Once again my thanks.

Michael King
Mykul1@earthlink.net
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: peter edwards on 1999-08-19 04:00 am
Hymns Ancient & Modern is the Hymn Book of the Church of England and only easly available in the UK (I would think). But fear not! Follow the link from NWC to 'The Cyber Hymnal' and there you will find 'God the Omnipotent!'

http://tch.simplenet.com/htm/g/godtheom.htm

HTH
Peter
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Michael King on 1999-08-20 04:00 am
Thanks again. I thought I was going to have to fly off to Jolly Old England and steal, I mean buy a copy!:)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: John in Brisbane on 1999-08-22 04:00 am
My choir sang it last year for a gig with the Royal Marines and the Russian Army Orchestra and a somewhat mercurial Russian General conducting. It's a fantastic sing (particularly the bass voices) and was a great series of performances. I have the English lyrics but it will take me about 36 hours to post. I also have the SATB in Eb. Regards, John
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Michael King on 1999-08-22 04:00 am
Gee, John, only 36 hours? What are you waiting for, an invitation? :) Just kidding! Thank you for the info. Best regards;

Michael King
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Serafim Evgenievich on 2001-04-08 04:00 am
The English translation of "God Protect the Tsar" is
"God Protect the Tsar, He who holds power;
Reign for glory, for our glory.
Reign to the terror of our enemies,
Orthodox Tsar!
God Protect the Tsar!"

"Bozhe Tsarya Hrani
Silni derzhavi
Tsarstvui na slavu,na slavu nam.
Tsarstvui na strax vragam
Tsar Pravoslavni
Bozhe Tsarya Hrani."
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Joe Music on 2001-04-08 04:00 am
QUICK! Name a well-known overture written between the years 1811 and 1813.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Serafim Evgenievich on 2001-04-08 04:00 am
This Troparion translates into English as
"O Lord, save Thy people
and bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to Orthodox Christians
and grant us Thy great mercy."

There are many, many musical scores to this Troparion, which, before "God Save the Tsar" was the Russian National Anthem. I think I know which music you are talking about, the one which seems to be most popular in our weekly Liturgies, but do not know the composer.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Serafim Evgenievich on 2001-04-08 04:00 am
The Tsar in 1812 was Alexander II. I think that the section you may be referring to in the 1812 Overture is "Bozhe Tsarya Xrani" - "God Protect the Tsar" - which became the Russian National Anthem after the previously referred to Troparion "O Lord Save Thy People" - a part of the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy whether Russian or not - which, before "God Protect the Tsar," was indeed the Russian National Anthem. Can't remember when the National Anthem was changed, but the most recent was composed by Lvov. I do know that "Bozhe Tsarya Xrani" is played briefly in the 1812 Overture; cannot recall "O Lord, Save Thy People" being part of it.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Grant on 2001-04-09 04:00 am
Actually, JM, I tried but couldn't come up with any. None of Beethoven's overtures was written in 1812 (according to the New Grove dictionary, the closest is the Fidelio overture of 1814). I thought of Mendelssohn and Weber, but 1812 is about 10 years too early for either of them. Schubert wrote an overture in D major in that year, but it's not "well-known". So I'm at a loss. What am I missing?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Stephen Randall on 2001-04-10 04:00 am
How about these not so famous operas presumably with overtures by Rossini:

L'inganno felice

Ciro in Babilonia

La scala di seta

La pietra del paragone

L'occasione fa il ladro

All first performed in 1812 and possibly written the same year. Although the premier of L'inganno felice was on 8 January 1812 - not a lot of time to get the production together.

Perhaps almost qualifying as famous is Tancredi (I've even played the overture) which was first perfomed on 6 Feb 1813 and therefore was probably finished during 1812. I'll go for that one.

Information from http://rick.stanford.edu/opera/Rossini

Stephen
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Grant on 2001-04-10 04:00 am
Rossini - of course! That's what I was missing.

Prolific son of a gun, wasn't he?

I can console myself with the fact that none of the overtures you mention - not even Tancredi - seems to merit the description "well-known".
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Fred Nachbaur on 2001-04-10 04:00 am
The only one I've ever /heard of/ is La scala di seta, and that's just because the overture is on a sort of "best of GR" CD I own. So I guess it's well-known if you happen to have that particular record. :)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Joe Music on 2001-04-10 04:00 am
Sorry, the "well known" was gratuitous!

I heard the question (without the "well-known") on a music trivia panel discussion at a classical radio station several years ago. Of course, the question draws laughter, because "1812 Overture" is definitely wrong.

If the time interval is expanded a bit, say 1809 to 1815, then indeed one can find "well-known" in Beethoven.

As for the start of this thread, the first time I ever heard the 1812 overture, on a vinyl record, it had the Russian chorus (group at beginning, men's chorus at cannonade). I don't have the liner notes anymore, but I do recall that the opening was supposed to be a "well-known" Russian church hymn to the Virgin.

It is said that song is best in Italian or French, less so in German or English. But Russian is the only language in which a composer tried to drown out the chorus with cannons.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Artur on 2001-04-12 04:00 am
Also have this great cd. It's Essentials Classic (Sony), isn't it?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Max Magee on 2001-05-13 04:00 am
This is what I can make out, although the fourth and sixth lines are kind of sketchy (at best).

Mighty Lorrrrrdddd,
Preserve us from jeopardyyyyyyy.
Take thee now our faaaaaate
and glowwwww briiiight in peniteeeeence
and bee-eeee with me
o'er trecherous and cruel and unease and through all and bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowwwwly prayerrrrr,
and by the liiiiight shining fully, light.
Grant uuuuus, O Lord, peaaaaaace agaaain.
<music>...
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Andy on 2001-05-13 04:00 am
oh, I hear this in the 6th line now:
o'er our trecherous and cruel our heaven peace and to our land bring peace.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Joe Music on 2001-05-15 04:00 am
Regarding the sixth line, however it may be translated:

A Russian-speaking friend (who did not have access to the chorus in Russian, alas) tell me that the extra length (numerous syllables) of that line is a characteristic of some Orthodox Church music. Apparently, some of the words are conjugated in a way that introduces many syllables, and since the prayer has a rather fixed content, it is necessary to squeeze it all in.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Spinoza on 2001-05-26 04:00 am
I think the 6th line says:

O'er Trecherous and crue and grand unease and to our land
bring peace.

And, I think the 8th line says:

And by Light, Shinning Holy Light, Grand us oh Lord Peace
again.

But I am not sure.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Jason Hall on 2001-07-20 04:00 am
i have gathered the lyrics from this page and put the right ones in one place, here:

Mighty Lord,
Preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our fate
and glow bright in penitence
and be-e with me
O'er trecherous and cruel and grand unease and to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by light, shinning holy light, grant us oh Lord Peace again.
<little music>
O mighty Lord hear our prayer.
...

But, The overture was not written in 1812, it was written around 1880. A little known fact is that Tchaikovsky never actually heard it the way he wrote it.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Casey on 2001-07-22 04:00 am
Understandably, Tchaikovsky felt this piece was "very noisy" and "with no artistic merit," which is true, especially for his music, but it is still a good, inspiring piece--the use it was supposed to serve when comissioned for the opening of the Moscow Exhibition. It was written to commemorate Napolean's retreat for Moscow (hence the French National Anthem that gets buried in the melee of runs and, what the original score calls for, "all the bells of Russia"). The singing was not part of the original intention. This was brought into the picture by a performance in the U.S. after World War I. It seems to have stuck, and other orchestras have picked it up.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: lionvoice on 2001-08-30 04:00 am
Hey all,

I remember browsing this post last year...wow. Anyways, can someone maybe give me the name and any other pertinent info regarding a CD that has this 1812 overture w/ vocals? I just have the mp3 and am very much interested in purchasing the "legit" version. Please email @ mcarlyle@iastate.edu with any info...thanks!

Mitch
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Fred Nachbaur on 2001-08-30 04:00 am
I hope this doesn't come across as being condescending, but did you try to read the ID3 tag in the mp3? Often they have the name of the original CD. In WinAmp you can view the ID3 info by clicking the middle button on the left.

Fred
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Joe Music on 2001-08-31 04:00 am
While you are trying to find the 1812 CD with vocals, if there is a used (vinyl) record shop in your area, have a look. I remember having a record with the Russian chorus included. It was probably recorded in the early 1970s.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Jarred on 2001-09-01 04:00 am
I think the Tsar was Alexander I
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: lionvoice on 2001-09-01 04:00 am
Fred,

Thanks for the advice...looked at the ID3 tag, and fate was not in my corner. No luck...but thanks a mil for the suggestion! Take Care.

Mitch
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Artur on 2001-09-05 04:00 am
Has anyone here tried audiogalaxy to find this song?
I have this program and can seek it out if asked...
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: andre rivera on 2001-09-22 04:00 am
ok...i love the 1812 Overture. i love it so much that it inspired me to write a script. now, the beginning part of the song (the hymn) has been a mystery for me as far as lyrics are concerned. i have gotten a few words hear and there, but someone here got practically all of it, but not ALL of it...

the last line is VERY HAZY for me and i'm gonna guess on this one

Mighty Lord,
Preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our fate
and glow bright in penitence
and be-e with me
O'er trecherous and cruel and grand unease and to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by light, shinning holy light, grant us oh Lord Peace again.
<little music>
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
forever FOR-EV-ER

then the boom that starts out the music
...
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: mike rodgers on 2001-09-25 04:00 am
this is so funny. i have long enjoyed the 1812 overture and have always wondered what the lyrics to the beginning were. it wasn't until tonight, however, when i finally decided that i just had to find out what they were. upon finally finding this site i thought "crap, august 1999, all this stuff will be outdated by now." but low and behold someone replies w/ the full lyrics 2 days ago! hahaha...awesome!! thanks everyone!!!!!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Bob Merritt on 2001-09-26 04:00 am
As I recall, it's "our treacherous and cruel enemies and to our land bring peace." An appropriate prayer at this time...

I was hoping to find the whole prayer here, but it seems I know as much as anyone maybe :-(
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Clay Ramsey on 2001-10-02 04:00 am
This particular chant has long fascinated me.

Actually I had never heard it until 1995 when Andrew Litton, conducting the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, perfomed the 1812 Overture to kick off a night of Russian CLassical Music. Being a freshly degreed Russian Major from Texas A&M, I was really upset that I could not attend (it was a sellout), so I had to listen over the radio.

The DSO brought over 2 Russian Chorale Tutors, and tought the affiliated chorus to sing the pieces, and to do so properly. As I listened over the radio, tears began streaming down my cheeks, it was THAT beautiful. And correct, to my ear.

Fortunately, it came out on CD, and it is one of my cherished recordings. It has become the standard by which I judge all 1812 recordings I have / hear. A close 2nd is one recorded in Mineapolis in the early 60s (I think) that featured actual muskets and bronze cannon from the US Mil. Acad. @ West Point as well as a massive carrilon on site. Truly magnificent.

I have also found a wonderful Russian recording with those incredibly deep basses that Russian Chorales seem to thrive on.

Does anyone have link to the lyrics IN RUSSIAN?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Owen Ozier on 2001-11-11 05:00 am
Glad to see this discussion alive. I tried to find these answers in 1998, but with little success. It seems that the
intervening years have served the internet well. Thanks to Casey for the historical tidbits and to Clay for the DSO info; I've gotten CD's from them before.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Keith Hardy on 2002-01-03 05:00 am
Surfing the 'net in an effort to find the Russiona lyrics to the hymn opening the mighty 1812 and delighted to have come across your site.

I certainly share Clay's desire to locate the Russian lyrics. I have an old tape of Eugene Ormandy the Philadelphia Orchestra - not marvellous quality at all and my Russian simply isn't good enough to get the words (Lord I have troubel with choirs in English!).

To all those experiencing difficulty in getting lyrics perhaps I can offer some sympathy. I worked in Moscow in the mid 80s and regularly went to the state-owned music stores 'Melodiya'. Ravaging through the 'gramplastinkis' there were the usual favourites and occassionally a really good find for next to nothing. But alas never once did I come across the 1812. Worse still the store staff had never heard of it. My local contacts could never give me an explanation why it wasn't avaialble. So I left empty handed and never once heard it played there.

So, I join your ranks as a frustrated 1812 chaser. But I am grateful for the leads where I can at least get the English language version (though I do not expect them to match the chilling Russian voices but would still be happy to settle for one). I understand ABC FM Radio here in Asutralia a couple of months ago played an excellent choral version. I'll follow that up and post the results.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: glenn on 2002-02-10 05:00 am
thank you all, i used to have this cd and always wondered about the chorus lyrics. this is my favorite version of the overture. does anyone know which orchestra this is?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: J. Staley on 2002-03-01 05:00 am
My wife, a Muscovite, is unable to decipher the russian lyrics, as choral lyrics are often difficult to grasp, and the old-style grammar adds to the confusion. Sort of like trying to pull renaissance English lyrics out of a piece. If anyone does get his mitts on the lyrics, po-russki, posting them here would be awesome.
Vsego dobrogo vsem,
J.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Howard M. Green on 2002-03-19 05:00 am
I am the conductor of the Buffalo Grove (IL) Symphonic Band. This Summer we plan to perform the 1812 Overture as arranged for Concert Band. Our community chorus will be joining us for Battle Hymn of the Republic and God Bless America. I would love to add the choral parts for the overture as well.

Does anyone know where they can be gotten? Are the existing recordings a case where the original hymn was simply sung over the setting used by Tchaikovsky or was it arranged? Also I understand the Kunzel recording uses vocal parts in the "battle" sequences of the work as well. Does anyone know if these have been published?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2002-03-20 05:00 am
I don't know the answer to the just-above question, but: When I heard a recording with chorus (circa 1971), there was the opening hymn, and later there was a male chorus during the "battle" part. I insist that the purpose of the cannons was to drown out the Russian lyrics. If Italian, no cannons!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Escantidu on 2002-03-23 05:00 am
Some of the lyrics in Karajan's 1966 recording (sung by the Don Kosaken choir):
Ñïàñè, Ãîñïîäè, ëþäè Òâîÿ è áëàãîñëîâè äîñòîÿíèå Òâîå, ïîáåäû õðèñòîëþáèâîìó âîèíñòâó ...
íà ñîïðîòèâíûÿ äàðóÿ, è Òâîå ñîõðàíÿÿ Êðåñòîì Òâîèì æèòåëüñòâî ...
I donno what is sung during the first ellipsis. During the second ellipsis, they start by repeating some of the words, then seem to wonder off.
The above text is taken from two versions of today's hymn. There are many more. Perhaps looking into them all, one can find all the lyrics without understanding a word...
If anyone is up to the challenge, I recommend google.ru. Isn't there a better way?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: D. L. Robinson on 2002-04-25 01:39 am
IMHO, it sounds more like:

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud crying in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

And this, I submit makes VERY much better sense
in their situation, and in ours.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Elizabeth MacDougal on 2002-04-29 07:52 am
Just thought I should add, for the benefit of any Australian participants in this discussion that there will be a performance of the 1812 Overture with large choir singing in Russian (or the closest we can get to it) on May 10th and 12th at the Sydney Olympic Park Superdome. Judging by the rehearsals so far, it should be very powerful.  A few weeks ago I would have thought - the 1812, you must be kidding.  Now I think anyone who has the chance to be there and hear it sung by 500 voices, should grab it with both hands.  It's glorious.

And of course, thanks to this list, I now understand what I'm singing.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: falck, b on 2002-07-21 11:02 pm
Slavyanka has cd out with God preserve thy people. New Calvary has CD with God save the Tsar. Both CD's are a couple years old. Google and other serch engines have recorded sound bites available.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Steven in Irving Texas on 2002-08-25 07:40 pm
Oh how I have searched the world for an 8 track tape i had in the 70's with the 1812 on it with a full choral all the way through.  It was magnificently done.  It was in Cerilic, so I do not know the words, but I can sing it phonetically to the music.  If anyone knows of this one, please post it.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Jerry on 2002-12-04 04:52 am
I just did some listening, and though some of the lines are a bit hazy (I'm using a rather beat up casette...the mp3 is the same, so...), I get this (although a couple of words are definitely up for interpretation)

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our faith
and our grinding penitence.
Grant thee vict'ry
o'er our treacherous and creul enemies
and to our land bring peace.
Almighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by thy shining Holy Light
when thou [sow], Lord, peace again.
Oh mighty Lord, hear our prayer
and save our kingdom
forever, forever!

"sow" is the one very confusing word...it could be any number of otehr words, but sow makes the most sense with the rest, not tht it makes much at all
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2002-12-05 02:00 am
Does anyone have any idea what this 2 and a half year old, now 46 message string has to do with NWC?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: War the Ogre on 2002-12-05 04:04 am
No clue, but glad to find the discussion here! Thanks Noteworthysoftware!!!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2002-12-05 02:21 pm
David (reply 46): It shows that many NWC users are sophisticated enough to have heard of the 1812 Overture. You may recall that in recent memory, there have been other message threads that have not reached that level.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Mike H on 2002-12-06 02:15 am
...this 2 and a half year old...string
Umm, it's over 3 and a quarter...
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2002-12-08 01:47 am
I count slow
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Tress on 2002-12-11 11:16 pm
And I too, on the search for the words to the prayer, have come across this web site and postings.  I have read all your postings and I feel you are all on the right track however there are still some words that allude the ear.
the closest posting I can agree with is from DL Robinson
I have only one correction to make that my ears hear

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud cry in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

May this string go on for ever till the truth be known.! its out there somewhere :)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Folkor on 2003-01-09 05:12 pm
hmm over the exact translation from Russian into English over the text you can discuss a long time as Russian is lot more variated in use of words for emotions then English is.

Anyhow I have to agree that the Ouverture 1812 is very nice, though a bit bombastic at the end..can imagine Tchaikovsky did not like it in the beginning... he was asked it to compose it for the 70 year Birthday of the defeat of the French army and the retreat from Moscow. This was then used on the opening of the exhibition of Moscow in 1882. That is why both the Russian imperial national anthem and the French anthem are used.
The Tsar then (1812) was Alexander I and was still very young ( end of his teens - start 20's) and came over somewhat unexperienced to Napoleon ...

The Imperial Anthem lasted till - as you can imagine - till 1917....
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: JohnnyDuck on 2003-01-10 01:16 am
Heyy -  I also would love to find the russian text to the 1812 opening - it's great that there's so many of us that are so interested.  What a peice!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: BeBoppin' Bobby in Provo, UT on 2003-01-13 06:14 am
I've been trying to find this text for a while, to no avail, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only one!  The Russian Orthodox Church tries to maintain their old slavic language, so finding a modern Russian translation of their old texts is impossible.  I lived in Russia for two years as a missionary, so I know modern Russian fairly well, but the old slavic language is very different.  I don't know how much this helps, but here is my amateur modern translation of the same text Escontidu listed above(which is in old slavic):

Save, Lord, thy people and bless thy property (or inheritance or even kingdom?)
Give victory to our Christian army and by thy cross bless this land.

My favorite recording was a tape I had while I was in Russia.  All I remember is that it was with the Mormon Tabernacle choir (I don't remember which orchestra played on it).  Anyway, at the end, the bells and cannons were absolutely overwhelming.  I left the tape when I came home and now I regret it.  I can't find a comparable recording anywhere.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Sutterpants on 2003-02-02 12:58 am
Here's my take:

I checked out a version of the 1812 on CD from my public library with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing at the beginning: It's the Sony Essential Classics version, the Valley Forge Military Academy Band performing, Col. D. Keith Feltham Conducting.  It shares the CD with Symphony No. 4 in F Minor, Op. 36, and Marche slave, Op. 31, both by the Philadelphia Orchestra with Eugene Ormandy conducting.

I started searching for the lyrics again because I performed this piece with the South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts in Greenville, SC, for the 4th of July celebration.  However, we did not sing the "pre-overture" portion as the MTC did, we sang at the very end, in Slavic.  While all of the lyrics seem to escape me at the moment, I remember a lot were in the prepositional case (I study Russian now, did not then).  I too will search for these specific lyrics and post if I can find.

By the way, if anyone attended SCGSA that summer (small chance) or saw the July 4th performance (again, small chance) maybe you can jog my memory, produce a program, a copy of the SATB, etc.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Sutterpants on 2003-02-02 02:49 pm
Sorry, should have mentioned that the performance was on the Fourth of July, 1993!  So quite a while ago.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: FooDew on 2003-02-18 02:25 am
Wow, I live in Minneapolis and I'm playing this piece for wind ensemble, found some recordings of it, and really wanted the lyrics for the beginning.  I can't believe you guys had it all, you rock!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: mvrwc on 2003-02-21 03:26 am
ALAS! I have been searching high and low for the words too. But not so fast. I do not have them but I have some very valuable info on them. I contacted the Library of Congress through their web-site and received this answer to: the words to 1812.    Written by V A Zhukovsky in 1814. Titled; Prayer of The Russian People. Now the rub. Can be found in    The Complete Works of V A Zhukovsky  Edited by A S Arkhangelsky    vol 2 p77  vol 4 p23    I am told that any university or larger metropolitan library should have these works. I have read several different interpretations on this site but only one can be correct. i will continue to seek these works and when i do i will post the correct words for all.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Alvin Clement on 2003-02-28 05:34 am
I happened on this thread when I was looking for the words to the 1812 Overture.

Last week we sang the Choral version of the 1812 Overture in an outdoor concert in front of about 35,000 people, many of them school children.  This was the last item and started in a darkened stadium, with the Tsar's prayer for peace.  It is is a very mature prayer for a boy who was 13 in 1815.

The harmony was incredible, the words very moving and the music just great for those of us who sing bass.  The words were different to those on some recordings:

(Key Eb major - The Tsar Alexander I is praying)
"Holy Father, I implore thee, hear my prayer.
From the lies of evil men, Lord deliver me.
O hear me; in my distress I cry unto thee, Lord, that thou might answer me.
I have dwelt among my enemies.
And have ever made my plea for peace with those who would peace destroy. (bar 23 - woodwind)
My earnest desire is peace. But when I speak, my foes all call for war (43 bars orch)

Alleluia, praise unto the God of hosts.
Praise, O praise the Lord in his mighty firmament (bells)
O praise him: for God takes pleasure in his people and adorns the meek with victory (bells)
This then is the glory for all his faithful people, Praise, O praise the Lord. (Key change to C major)

Father omnipotent, (Guns) God of all ages, Let all creation praise his holy name, (Hymn tune: Russia)
Praise, O praise the Lord, Praise the Lord (x 7)" (Band, orch, bells, canons, lasers, rockets, fireworks!!)

I have the SSAATTBB choral score, but not the full score.  It was recorded, but I don't think it will be issued.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: taillefer on 2003-04-01 04:33 am
iclassics.com has many chorus clips of 1812, including Karajan
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: cleverhuh on 2003-04-18 04:27 am
Well, lemme throw my 2-cents' worth in... My kid and I have been listening to the opener over and over and OVER. I think the "penitence" sounds more like "inheritance" prefaced maybe with "mine" or "thine". But still the missing syllables that would give it a complete, sensible  thought really CAN drive one bonkers. Feedback?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Shiva on 2003-06-01 02:05 pm
Here is what my ears hear based on several listenings....

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud crying in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forgive us
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Chai Cough Ski on 2003-06-18 09:32 pm
I just love that choral opening.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Jeff Hamrick on 2003-07-01 04:31 am
The (Chicago) Grant Park Symphony and Chorus are performing the 1812 Overture next week. I am the Russian coach. We are singing in Russian . . . does anyone still want any questions answered about this work's text?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2003-07-01 02:00 pm
The 1812 thread has been living for a long time, and I am sure it has many readers. Feel free to put in your ten cents' worth!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Tina Billett on 2003-07-02 08:18 am
"....does anyone still want any questions answered about this work's text?"

Yes please - the lyrics in English would be very useful. I could add them (with your permission) to my nwc file (in the Scriptorium).

Tina
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Bettie on 2003-07-05 03:22 am
The Mormon Tabernacle Choie sang it this evening with the Boston Pops at the esplanade...you won't get any more current than this.
Charlestown, NH
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Paul on 2003-07-28 07:42 pm
I don't know if anyone is still checking back here, but I happened on the
forum also searching for the Russian words. I performed the 1812
Overture about two years ago with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra
and the May Festival Chorus. It was own of those last minute things, so I
unfortunately can't remember the lyrics as I do for almost every other
song I've ever done. Bummer. 'Spa- si Gaspodye na Russkiyay' or
something to that effect I think was the beginning of the song, but other
than that I can't remember.

I do however still have access to the score, so I will try to get a copy
(unfortunately I'll have to transliterate from the Cyrillic I think). Please let
me know if this would be helpful for anyone, or rather if anyone still
reads this.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Paul on 2003-07-28 07:45 pm
*ONE* of those last minute things. (not own.. ugh)

Sorry, little things like that really bother me sometimes, especially when
there isn't the capacity for editing.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Tina Billett on 2003-07-29 10:53 am
Yes Please Paul :-)

I'd only be able to add the Lyrics using Choir Aahs but as long as the words can be made to fit the notes.....

I don't know how to include URLs and stuff here, but my mail address is with the file in the Scriptorium.

Tina

P.S. You can edit messages by using the Preview button before submitting.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Warren Porter on 2003-07-29 01:10 pm
It is fairly simple to add a URL to a post, simply put an exclamation point before http: whatever.

This (http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwcforum/linkhelp.htm) is the file you see when you click on the Hints link while creating a reply.  Until I got used to it, I found it helpful to keep a hard copy of it handy.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Tina Billett on 2003-07-29 08:50 pm
Thanks Warren. I'll try to remember that next time. (Can't figure out the scripto thing though)

Tina
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: M. Knapp on 2003-08-01 09:30 pm
I am so glad I was directed to this site.  All so very interesting and helpful.  I did hear it on July 4th 2003  broadcast from DC.  "Grabbed " me and wouldn't let go...now I can rest.  Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Glenn T. on 2003-08-05 04:48 am
Hello all,

This is a great thread.  I was astonished to see how long it has been going.  Going back to the English lyrics, do any of you have a copy that says at the end, "And save our people forevermore"?

If so, any idea what it is off of?  My mp3 tag doesn't have any info.

-----
Rom. 8:28-30
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: CRAIG CARR - craigca@webtv.net on 2003-09-04 02:48 am
Can anyone suggest  the name ofa recording that has  a mixed voice choral of the 1812 overture that includes "Bozhe Tsaria Khrany"?I'm an ex chorusboy trying to produce my own show to go into Las Vegas and put 30 of us back to work.I am completing by myself, the last of 700 costumes from archive fotos worn to the Imperial Ball OF 1903,and need a vocalguide to teach the cast with to sing in the finale of the production number.I have been computerless looking for 3 years trying to  find a copy.Thanks/SPACIBO!.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Dave on 2003-11-13 06:46 pm
This is great!!  Thanks for all the info.  I ended up here also looking for a translation! I just bought another CD of the 1812 based on a description that it had the singing of the hymn.  I have only yet listened with headphones on a PC and can't wait to get home and hear on my home system.  Even so, it nearly brought tears to my eyes.  DG CD with the Gothenburg Sympohny Orchestra, Chorus, Artillery Division and church bells!!  CD also contains Marche slave and some other well-known pieces by Alexander Borodin and Rimsky-Korsakov.  Highly recommend!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Hannah on 2003-12-02 08:41 pm
this is amazing...three and a half years or not..
I am a university student studying music, and This is one of our exam pieces.  We got bonous marks for interpreting the lyrics and this site got me an A. Thanks for being such keeners.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Steven Sheldon on 2003-12-03 07:17 pm
Wow - the power of the internet.

I was googling for the lyrics to the 1812 Overture, also, and when I found this thread and saw that it was dated in 1999 I figured it was a dead thread.  Cool to see posts as recent as yesterday.

I, too, remember back around 1988 or so having a tape with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing, in english, the intro to the 1812 Overture.  I just downloaded a version of the Overture from itunes.com, but it is intrumental only, no choral nor cannons! :(

Does anyone have a URL to Amazon.com or something where the CD with the MTC singing and cannon fire version can be found?

Steve
steve@forth-armoury.com
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Steven Sheldon on 2003-12-03 07:25 pm
I found it on Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000DS28/qid%3D1070479380/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-4897072-2197736#product-details

Product Details
Composer: Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Conductor: Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham
Label: Sony - #39784
Audio CD (May 17, 1990)
ASIN: B00000DS28

On this CD:

1. 1812 -- Festival Overture, for orchestra in E flat major, Op. 49
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

2. Slavonic March, for orchestra, Op. 31
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

3. Romeo and Juliet, fantasy-overture for orchestra in B minor (3 versions)
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

4. Eugene Onegin, opera, Op. 24 Waltz
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

Hope this is helpful to all you 1812 fans!

Steve
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: James Springer on 2003-12-19 09:41 pm
Back in 1985 I bootlegged a copy of an LP.  I think it was the Mormon Tabernacle choir one in question.  There was a liner with printed lyrics which I remember (reinforced by frequent listening) to be as follows:

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and love, thine inheritance.
Grant thee victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

The only main difference from Reply 62 is "thine inheritance" in line two.  This reference seems to be almost directly from Psalm 28:11, and occurs in several catholic liturgies.

I have another recording (unfortunately with no reference to the text in the notes) in Russian that has the full chorus singing on the recapitulation of the opening chant near the end (talk about powerful!).
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Sarah Bradburn on 2003-12-20 09:13 pm
It's amazing to see a thread going on four years now, and I'd just like to add my input.  Upon "borrowing" the song, using a file-sharing program, I heard the voices at the beginning, and was quite bewildered.  Being a musician, it was a strange turn to hear this piece with voices, and therefore, I sought to find what exactly it was that they were singing.  I moved the song to my sound equipment, and turned off all voices except for the basses.  Once that was done, I could hear the (Anglish) words quite clearly, being that the bass voices are most often the most crisp, it seems.  I'm quite sure of these lyrics, which I do believe double those of many of you out there:

Mighty Lord, Preserve us from Jeopardy
Take Thee now our Faith, and Love Thine Inheritance
(Grant Thee Victory) o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our Land bring Peace
Oh Mighty Lord, Hear our lowly Prayer
And by light shining holy light
Grant us, O' Lord, Peace Again

O' Mighty Lord Hear, Our Prayer
And Save our People
Forever, Forever.

You'll see that I've put (Grant Thee Victory) in parentheses.  This is simply because the bass voices sustain a note here, that I can't seem to decipher.  I placed 'Grant Thee Victory' there because other people had heard it clearly.  Howevermuch it fits, though, with the prayer, I can't hear that strongly in the music, and so I am unsure as to that line.

Another version that I found was a different version of the Choral opening, and at first, I couldn't understand what the words were saying, until I turned down the voices except for the tenors, and heard quite clearly something in Latin.  After listening a few more times, I recognized it as "Te Deum Laudamus", or at least, the first few lines of it, which I've re-written here (please excuse mistakes!)

Te deum laudamus te dominum confitemur
Te aeternum patrem omnis terra veneratur
Tibi omnes angeli Tibi caeli et universae potestates
Tibi cherubim et seraphim incessabili voce
proclamant
Sanctus sanctus sanctus dominus deus sabaoth
Pleni sunt celi et terra maiestatis gloriae tuae

That's what I've found.  Long live the thread!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2003-12-20 10:17 pm
The "Te Deum" is widely used for such occasions. So, although I haven't heard the music in question, I would say that you are most likely correct about that.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: James Springer on 2003-12-30 03:37 am
I came upon this site looking for a literal translation (not the English paraphrase we've all heard and seem to remember bits of).  Having picked up a phrase or two from earlier replies, I did a search which resulted in my ordering a CD of Russian Church Music by the Slavyanka Men's Chorus (through Amazon.com).  The recording had side-by-side texts in Russian, phonetic transliteration, and English (and French & German).

O LORD, SAVE THY PEOPLE
Spasi, Gospodi, lyudi
Tvoya i blagoslovi
dostoyaniye Tvoye.
pobyedy pravoslavnym
khristianom
na soprovitivnyya daruya,
i Tvoye sokhranyaya
kryestom Tvoyim
zhityel' stvo.

O Lord, save Thy people
and bless Thine inheritance,
grant victories to the
Orthodox Christians
over their adversaries,
and preserve Thy dwelling
through Thy cross.

I listened to the Russian on the recording (the Gothenburg Symphony one Dave mentioned in an earlier reply) and could make out everything but the phrase "pobyedy pravoslavnym khristianom" pretty well. Here, there were extra words in the music that didn't fit.  But I think I have what I was looking for. The next person who does a search will have a much easier time than we did.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Dana Netherton on 2004-02-03 10:32 pm
I'm an Orthodox church musician who uses NoteWorthy (note: oblig NW comment!), and I just discovered this venerable thread.  :-)

In addition to the English and Slavonic texts just volunteered, here are some links with more information, for those who might be interested in that text:

Hope folks find this interesting. :-)

Dana Netherton
-------
I don't belong to any organized religion.
I'm an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Stephen on 2004-02-24 11:50 pm
Dana, we keep running into each other on line, don't we!  I hope everyone following this thread has been able to keep the two tunes straight; one is the pre-revolutionary Russian national anthem, ‘Bozhe tsaria khrani,’ composed by Aleksei L'vov, who was the director of the chapel choir of the imperial court.  This is the one adapted to Protestant hymnody with the text ‘God the Omnipotent.’

The other, usually done by the orchestra, was originally intended to be sung, and is in some performances.  This is ‘O Lord, save thy people and bless thine inheritance’--the troparion.  The melody is not specific to this text, but is the generic melody for troparia of Mode 1 (or Tone 1) in Russian usage, based on the Obikhod choir book of the imperial court chapel, which was edited and published in the 1840s by, guess who, Aleksei L'vov!  Every Russian choir sings it frequently.

You can hear this also, with totally different words, in Sergei Eisenstein's film ‘Ivan the Terrible,’ in the scene where the people are going in procession to beg Ivan to come out of retirement and tyrannize them again (Stalin was in power when the film was made).  This is a gross anachronism.  The Russians did not have this melody until a century after Ivan.

Stephen
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Silent Observer on 2004-02-25 05:49 am
I found out what this song was in a general musicology class. I've heard excerpts and pieces done here an there, but never knew what it really was till fall semester in my musicology class. Now that I have taken that class, and learned the history of this song. I now appreciate this song much more than I would have otherwise...

And last but not least, wow, this is a long thread.  Keep it going if you must.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Phil UK on 2004-02-26 10:10 pm
Google search for '1812 overture lyrics' brings up your forum in 3rd spot...pretty impressive IMO and I found what I needed to know back in 2002 somewhere, but the chat seem to be cycling, so it's also in 2003 and 2004..hehe

But hey...LONG LIVE THE THREAD!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: UncleCat on 2004-03-02 06:38 am
Wow.  I'm a 20 year old guy with a passion for music that, just to listen to it, lets you know you are alive.  When I listen to a piece like the 1812 Overture, though I have no clue what they are saying, it stirs my soul.  My blood pumps, my mood greatens, I feel like I could run around the block a few times.  The arrangement, and others like it and greater, brings my heart alive and a tear to my eye.  To see so many people that are interested in something like this really gives me a hope that things aren't all that bad.  I just want to thank everyone that posts on here for the glimpse of what humanily SHOULD be.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Brad on 2004-03-09 08:37 am
When I was in the 8th grade, our symphonic band played the 1812 Overture for a local competition. Our band instructor made us practice this piece over and over and over until it literally became second nature to us. Low and behold, this piece has psychologically embedded itself within my mind even 21 YEARS LATER!! I downloaded an mp3 of it this evening and remembered each and every bit of it, note for note. Brought back a lot of memories for me =)

Anyway, the version I happened to have downloaded contained the intro with the choir. I had absolutely no idea what they were saying, and had no idea that they were even speaking it in English? Out of curiosity, I ran a quick search on Google.com and came across this messege board. What a trip it is to see that this topic thread was started about 5 years ago!!

That's all I wanted to say, really. Long live the 1812 Overture!! =)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Gaile on 2004-03-21 01:15 am
Why is it called an 'overture' when it is not the prelude to something?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Cyril Alberga on 2004-03-21 01:01 pm
Because, in the 19th century, the "concert-overture" was invented.  This is a independent composition in the same form as an opera overture, but played by itself, or as a "real" overture to a play or some such event.  These go back at least to Beethoven ("Coriolan", "Consecration of the House", etc.), and include Mendelssohn's "Hebrides Overture" and Brahms's "Academic Festival Overture".

Reference, Harvard Dictionary of Music.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: John B. Farmer on 2004-04-05 03:08 pm
What does the 1812 Overture commemorate?  Thanks.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2004-04-05 09:06 pm
I'd like to say it represented the War of 1812 between Britain and the US -=-  Canadians (Brits?) burnt the White House and we are certain we won the war -=- but it wasn't written for that purpose.

Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write it to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Russia's victory over Napoleon in 1812.

Tchaikovsky wrote it in 1880. The commission was to mark the 1882 Moscow Exhibition, and specifically the consecration of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior which was built there to give thanks for the Russian victory during the Napoleonic Wars.

Source:
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/tchaikov/1812.html (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/tchaikov/1812.html)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Matt H. in Charlotte, NC on 2004-04-20 04:35 pm
Thanks so much!  My high school choirs are performing the 1812 Overture with our school's Concert Ensemble, and it is my task to find the Russian text & translation, and then arrange the vocal parts.  Thank goodness for you people -- you just made my job a lot easier!!

And of course...  Wowza -- what a thread!!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Jeff on 2004-04-22 12:09 pm
I just invested in new car audio equipment and one of the lines from the literature said something like "...you need a good amp because say you're listening to the 1812 Overture, when those canons go off, you need all 500 watts and you need them immediately..."  Well, I just had to try it, and now I'm hooked.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2004-04-22 03:54 pm
Does anyone remember the Telarc vinyl recording, with real cannon, and a groove that visibly wiggled? Not every record player could keep its needle in the groove!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Ranger Joe, Defender of Bunnies on 2004-04-27 12:57 am
I had to add my two cents worth. I ran across this thread while looking for the English version of the 1812 opening prayer. I used to know it by heart, but have since forgotten the words. When I used to live in Virginia (I was a seasonal ranger at Shenandoah National Park) my wife taught at a straight-laced quasi-religious private school near Front Royal. One day I was attending one of the school events and was asked by the headmaster to lead them in prayer. Seeing as how I'm an atheist, I don't KNOW many prayers, but I DID know the opening to the 1812. I recited the lines as best I could remember (no, I didnt sing them) and duly impressed the headmaster. Thus, the 1812 saved my butt.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2004-04-27 07:35 pm
I believe that's what's known as cannon law.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Matt H. in Charlotte, NC on 2004-04-28 02:58 pm
Ah-ha!  If you want a copy of the vocal parts, you can only get them through Schirmer's Hal Leonard Music Dispatch:  1-800-637-2852, item # 50323210.  It contains the original Russian lyrics, and the English lyrics, for the ENTIRE piece (including the children's chorus).  Copies are only $1.60 each, but you must order a minimum of 5.

Lrics:  (Russian & English)
Spasi Gospodi liudi Tvoia i blagoslovi
Grant salvation to Thy people, Lord, and we pray Thee bless

dostoianiie Tvoie.
Thine inheritance, O God.

Pobedy boriushchimsia za veru pravuiu i za sviatuiu rus,
Grant vict'ry to those who fight to save our righteous faith and our dear sacred land,

nasoprotivnyia daruia.
and from all evil deliver them.

I Tvoie sokhraniaia
Then the guardian of Thy grace

krestom Tvoim zhitelstvo.
the Cross will forever be.

Krestom Tvoi, zhitelstvo,
The Cross will forever be,

krestom Tvoim, krestom Tvoim, krestom.
The Cross will be, the Cross will be, the Cross.
---------------
U vorot, vorot, vorot,
At the gate, the gate, the gate,

vorot batiushkinykh,
gate to father's dear house,

ai, dunai, moi dunai, ai, veselyi dunai,
ai, dunai, my dunai, ai, sing we all dunai,

U vorot, vorot, vorot,
At the gate, the gate, the gate,

novykh matushkinykh,
gate to mother's dear house,

ai, dunai, moi dunai, ai, veselyi dunai,
ai, dunai, my dunai, ai, sing we all dunai,
---------------
Bozhe tsaria khrani, silny derzhavny,
God save our gracious Tsar, valiant and righteous,

tsarstvui na slavu, tsarstvui na strakh vragam.
reigning in glory, reigning against his foes.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Juan H on 2004-04-29 01:55 am
Wow!  I'm number 100!
What do I win?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2004-04-29 04:04 pm
A 21-gun salute would be appropriate.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rachel on 2004-04-30 07:39 pm
I think that the 1812 Overture was great and I think he wrote that song or theme because he hated war and was happy to see it over. So I think Tchaikowsky was happy. Also I typed this because I was looking if Tchaikowsky hated War or not for a music project I'm doing. I happened to come aross this and I typing this now.

Rachel
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2004-05-01 10:12 am
Tchaikovsky was only born 25 years after the war finished! And the piece was written 68 years after the retreat from Moscow. Whatever his feelings about war in general, he certainly wouldn't be too influenced personally by the Napoleonic Wars. He might have been influenced by the Crimean War as a teenager, but I doubt it. The nineteenth century was (from 1815 onwards) on the whole actually quite peaceful compared to other centuries.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2004-05-01 02:49 pm
As I pointed out in reply 93 above, Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write the music.  I doubt very much that it had anything to do with a dislike of war.  Indeed the piece is a "flag-waver," likely to stir the blood.

His Marche Slav, on the other hand, could be a protest (although I doubt it...)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: George on 2004-05-02 02:24 am
The Crimean War was fought near the Crimea River.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2004-05-02 02:21 pm
I would say that the Crimean War was fought on the Crimea Peninsula, in t e Black Sea. Florence Nighingale earned eternal acclaim there.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Peter on 2004-05-03 02:43 am
Crimea River    =    Cry Me a River
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Barry Graham on 2004-05-03 03:04 am
Near the Eyecryda River.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2004-05-03 08:27 am
Over You.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob Kirkpatrick on 2004-05-09 07:41 pm
I, too, found this thread while searching for the lyrics of the Russian Orthodox hymn used at the beginning of the 1812 Overture.  After having heard numerous times my recording of a performance that opens with a choir instead of a cello, I have to say that the interpretation of the lyrics in this thread is pretty much on the money.  I disagree at only one point--I definitely hear the line you all have rendered "Grant us, O Lord, peace again" as "Grant us, O Lord, peace. Amen."  I don't hear the guttural quality of a hard "G" in any voice part at that point.  But perhaps the choir saw fit to "swallow" its enunciation for the sake of a smooth slide into the next pitch.  What do you all think?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robert A. on 2004-05-10 04:01 pm
I can't offer an opion on the 1812 lyrics, but as a choir singer I can tell you that once in a while, a word is changed for better singability.

I have seen (in print) two versions of Gounod's Ave Maria; one ended in "Ave, Ave," and the other ended in "Amen, Amen."
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Stuart Moffatt on 2004-05-10 10:23 pm
Robert A. in reply 65 said: Feel free to put your ten cents' worth in, so as I am a poor Englishman here is my tuppence worth. My CD of this work is in Post Office Red - or very near to - is that a warning to keep away, or to ensure that you can easily spot it in the heap? Tina B knowing what I think of PT will probably guess that I agree with PT's assessment of the work as reported by Casey in repy 23. Even so, it is worth listening to from time to time, what was it that the Bard made Prince Harry say? Something about his early life being a foil that would make his later seem so much better.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Steve on 2004-06-22 08:13 pm
1812 is the best peice of music written
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2004-06-23 01:09 am
By what criteria are you evaluating it?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Phil on 2004-06-29 11:54 am
There seem to be two different hymns listed in these postings, given the English translations of them.  We have the Russian words for one of them, but not the other - the one that most people are transcribing (unless I'm being stupid?  Quite possible).  I would love a copy of the words and music, if anyone can offer them.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Terry K on 2004-07-01 04:20 pm
I used to listen to this all the time (over and over, I mean, it was on 8-track).  It may be the same English version talked about above.  I haven't listened to it for about 25 years, but I seem to recall the words "Oh Mighty God hear our prayer, and save our people, forevermore" at the end of the singing, and the start of the orchestra.  It was either the Columbia or RCA version with the "Serenade for Strings" as the other piece.  8-tracks don't have a flip side, of course.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Terry K on 2004-07-01 04:24 pm
It was Columbia, Eugene Ormandy and The Philadelphia.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: elena on 2004-07-05 01:46 am
As an American-born Russian Orthodox Christian, who has sung and heard "O Lord Save They People" throughout my entire life, I wondered if many non-Orthodox Americans  cared about the lyrics (especially with all of the 4th of July exposure). It's been interesting to read all of your responses, questions, concerns.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Subdeacon Patrick on 2004-08-16 05:20 am
<<I'd like to say it represented the War of 1812 between Britain and the US -=- Canadians (Brits?) burnt the White House and we are certain we won the war -=- but it wasn't written for that purpsoe.

Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write it to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Russia's victory over Napoleon in 1812.>.

You brought back memories from 1970.  I actually had a history teacher tell us that "the 1812 Overture was about the War of 1812."  When I offered a polite "Scuse me..." and mentioned that it referred to Napoleon etc., I was rebuked with "The War of 1812 was like World War I and World War II - it took place in LOTS of countries."

Of course, I hear and sing "God Save Thy People" a lot now, in church, and have often wondered about what happened to that teacher and if any of the other kids were ever impacted by what she said regarding her imagined 19th Century World War.....probably not.

Another use for the song - we often use it as the song that accompanies the entrance of bishops and other members of the head table at banquets etc.  It fits nicely.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: T. Cher on 2004-08-16 03:49 pm
Subdeacon P's comments brought back memories of a grade school experience, years ago... The school had vocabulary lists, containing words and definitions, to be memorized and tested each week. One week, "keek" was defined as part of a ship's hull. No amount of persuasion, backed by any dictionary however large or small, could persuade the teacher that the word should be "keel."
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Ralph on 2004-08-17 12:51 am
Teachers are not always correct (they are human...).
The good teachers are the ones who can admit it.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: NanaJane on 2007-07-06 05:23 am
Here it is 2007 and I found this thread.  It was very helpful for a Nana looking for answers for her 9 year old grandson.  [That should have been for (4) year old. . . ]
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Warren Porter on 2007-07-06 01:12 pm
I liked the P.D.Q. Bach's version: The 1712 Overture, just a little ahead of its time.  It featured such classic themes as "Pop Goes the Weasel", chirping birds (and crows), and a rock organ. <g>
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: K.A.T. on 2007-07-06 06:51 pm
Wow, this thread had been frozen for nearly three years (and by frozen I mean that no more replies were being accepted).
Glad to see it's thawed.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-07-06 07:05 pm
@warren
We are going to do a PDQ Bach project, including "Die Kanarienvogelkantate". I am new to PDQ Bach, but I am already having fun. What to think of "My bonny lass she smileth" seemlessly followed by "My bonny lass she smelleth" ?

(and btw, I saw that way back I never answered the Crimea River thing. The whole thing must have escaped me at the time. I am sure I would have said something about Joe Cocker.)
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2007-07-07 01:17 am
Quote
btw, I saw that way back I never answered the Crimea River thing.

"Now you say you're sorry"
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-07-07 10:23 am
Will an allusion do? It seems to be the hardest word.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Robin P Withey on 2007-07-07 10:46 am
Well, happiness is just an allusion!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-07-07 10:51 am
Well, then I will be more than happy to say I'm sorry.
I have to be straightforward here, because I am not an allusionist.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Bob on 2007-07-15 04:16 am
We could just nag you until you give an answer to the old question.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-07-15 07:19 am
42.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Timoteus B on 2007-07-15 03:41 pm
Gee I am sure Napoleon was also in on this deal somewhere.Something about
a canon if I remember correctly,which made the audience go nuts.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Bob on 2007-07-18 01:36 am
I like the way "Hysteria!" depicted Napolean-- short and fat, somewhat penguin-like in his build.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: pbp908 on 2008-12-09 02:20 am
I'm absolutely amazed that nobody has posted the actual lyrics to this hymn, especially when they're listed on the back of so many recordings of the 1812 Overture.  (I actually ran across this thread trying to win a bet with my son that the lyrics could be found online.)  I don't have the lyrics in Russian, but these are the English lyrics commonly sung in modern presentations of the Overture.

God, Preserve Thy People
Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and love, thine inheritance.
Grant vict'ry o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies,
And to our land bring peace.
O Mighty Lord, hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining, holy light
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O Mighty Lord, hear our prayer and save our people.
Forever, forever.  Amen.


After three years, the original question posted on this topic has finally been answered, and the next time a music student starts looking for the lyrics - here they are.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: David Palmquist on 2008-12-09 03:27 am
Quote
canon
Very canonical?
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: tony smedley on 2008-12-09 04:24 pm
Has there been a time warp with this thread?

Tony
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: tony smedley on 2008-12-09 04:25 pm
Has there been a time warp with this thread?

Tony
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Cyril Alberga on 2008-12-09 07:50 pm
Don't know, but there does seem to be an echo.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rick G. on 2008-12-09 08:43 pm
Don't know, but there does seem to be an echo.
Funny, I thought it was a time loop rather than a time warp.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Peter (aka Bootlebarth) on 2008-12-19 05:21 pm
Twelve minutes past six seems a little early for an Overture, was it a late matinee.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2008-12-19 10:03 pm
... was it a late matinee.

Dunno, but I hear it went off with a bang.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Patrick Wooldridge on 2009-02-14 09:36 pm
In response to Reply# 92 "What does the 1812 Overture commemorate?"

It commemorates Napoleon's attempted invasion of Russia in 1812, resulting in decisive Russian victory and decimating the French Army, widely considered to be the decisive turning point in the Napoleonic Wars and one of the great high points in Russian military history.

The music can be interpreted as a fairly literal depiction of the campaign: in June of 1812, the previously undefeated French Allied Army of over half a million battle-hardened soldiers and almost 1200 state-of-the-art guns (cannons, artillery pieces) crossed the Niemen river into Lithuania on its way to Moscow. The Russian Orthodox Patriarch of All the Russias, aware that the Russian Imperial Army could field a force only a fraction of this size, inexperienced and poorly equipped, called on the people to pray for deliverance and peace. The Russian people responded en masse, gathering in churches all across Russia and offering their heartfelt prayers for divine intervention (the opening hymn). Next we hear the ominous notes of approaching conflict and preparation for battle with a hint of desperation but great enthusiasm, followed by the distant strains of La Marseillaise (the French National Anthem) as the French approach. Skirmishes follow, as the battle goes back and forth, but the French continue to advance and La Marseillaise becomes more prominent and victorious - almost invincible. The Tzar now appeals to the spirit of the Russian people in an eloquent plea to come forward and defend the Rodina (Motherland). As the people in their villages consider his impassioned plea, we hear traditional Russian folk music. La Marseillaise returns in force with great sounds of battle as the French approach Moscow. The Russian people begin to stream out of their villages and towns toward Moscow to the increasing strains of folk music and, as they gather together, there is even a hint of celebration. Now La Marseillaise is heard in counterpoint to the folk music as the great armies clash on the plains west of Moscow, and Moscow burns. As all seems hopeless, God intervenes, bringing an unprecedented deep freeze with which the French cannot contend. The French attempt to retreat, but their guns, stuck in the freezing ground, are captured by the Russians and turned against them. Finally, the guns are fired in celebration and church bells all across the land peal in grateful honor of their deliverance from their "treacherous and cruel enemies."
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Warren Porter on 2009-02-15 02:00 am
Patrick:  Welcome to the NWC community!

To add to your description, there is a long section where every repetition starts on a little lower pitch than the one before; ending with the low brass just before the random bells and celebration begins.  I was told that depicted the French retreat.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2009-02-18 12:08 pm
...
After three years, the original question posted on this topic has finally been answered, and the next time a music student starts looking for the lyrics - here they are.

Three years and a bit. The topic started in 1999. And is still interesting to (re-)read.
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Rostislav Pavlovich on 2009-04-19 06:13 pm
Here is part of tropar (тропарь) from 1812:

Спаси, Господи, люди Твоя  (Save, O Lord, Your people)
и благослови достояние Твое, (and bless Your heritage)
победы православным Христианом на сопротивныя даруя  (Victory to Orthodox Christians fighting resistance to the Gift)
и Твое сохраняя Крестом Твоим жительство.  (and Your Cross and maintaining belief in Your existence.

Вознесыйся на Крест волею,  (Ascend to the Cross by Your will)
тезоименитому Твоему новому жительству,  (the Holy Name Day of Czar Family, to Your new existence,)
щедроты Твоя даруй, Христе Боже,  (literal: Your gift of largesse - or gift of grace, Christ Jesus God)
возвесели силою Твоею верныя люди Твоя,  (Your true people are glad in Your power - or strength)
победы дая нам на сопостаты,  (Grant us victory over the apostates - or unbelievers, likely the unorthodox, as no other faith is considered true)
пособие имущим Твое оружие мира,  (and blessings, which are your weapons of peace,)
непобедимую победу.  (and invincible victory.)

Here is a link to a part of this tropar, written in the old russian:  http://www.drevglas.ru/b1/684.html (http://www.drevglas.ru/b1/684.html)

You may contact me at me@mail.az if you want to know more about this.

Spasibo bolshoe,
Rostislav
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: animac on 2009-11-23 07:29 am
Hi everyone!!!

I'm new here, but i found this theme awesome!!

I sing on a choir and I want to share with you my experience.

I sang the overture in russian and here is the translation of the score:

Spasi Gospodi lyudi Tvoya
i blagoslovi dostoyaniye Tvoye.
Pobedi boryushimsyaza veru pravuyu
i zasvyatuyu rus.
nasoprotivniya daruya
i Tvoye so cranyaya
Krestom Tvoim zhitelstvo
Krestom Tvoim, Krestom Tvoim
Krestom!

Music...

Bozhe tsarya crani,
sil ni der zhavni,
tsarstvui na slavu,
tsarstvui na straj vragam

I leave the link on youtube is on 2 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7MIxTj0h8

Hope you like it!!!
Title: Re: 1812 Overture
Post by: Bill Denholm on 2009-11-23 01:13 pm
Terrific!

What a great experience.  Half your luck.

Bill.