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Messages - Lawrie Pardy
1
Hi Vibe,
What you're describing is a crescendo
You can do it with a single linear sweep MPC, but unless it's a single note that is held for the full 20 bars you don't need to, instead use a cresc.
First, ensure there is an active dynamic at or prior to the start of the crescendo passage, AND there is a louder dynamic immediately at the end of the crescendo passage. E.G. you might start with pp and finish with mf. IF you don't want to see the dynamic markings, just make 'em not visible.
Then either:
a) press <Y>, Select the Dynamic Variance tab if it is not already active and then select Crescendo from the drop down box and click OK (position and visibility to taste). Instead of pressing <Y> you could also use the mouse and click |Insert|Dynamic Variance|
OR
b) highlight all the notes in the section and press the Greater Than sign "<"
N.B. crescendos done in this fashion do not work during sustained notes, they work on the "attack" phase of the MIDI code.
There are other methodologies that work outside the defaults of NWC. A great resource for understanding this functionality is Tina Billett's "Dynamics.pdf" in the Explanations section of the "Helpful Files" section of the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Explanations
Direct link (if it works):
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/dynamics.pdf
I don't know how old this document is, but Tina passed away over 11 years ago.
What you're describing is a crescendo
You can do it with a single linear sweep MPC, but unless it's a single note that is held for the full 20 bars you don't need to, instead use a cresc.
First, ensure there is an active dynamic at or prior to the start of the crescendo passage, AND there is a louder dynamic immediately at the end of the crescendo passage. E.G. you might start with pp and finish with mf. IF you don't want to see the dynamic markings, just make 'em not visible.
Then either:
a) press <Y>, Select the Dynamic Variance tab if it is not already active and then select Crescendo from the drop down box and click OK (position and visibility to taste). Instead of pressing <Y> you could also use the mouse and click |Insert|Dynamic Variance|
OR
b) highlight all the notes in the section and press the Greater Than sign "<"
N.B. crescendos done in this fashion do not work during sustained notes, they work on the "attack" phase of the MIDI code.
There are other methodologies that work outside the defaults of NWC. A great resource for understanding this functionality is Tina Billett's "Dynamics.pdf" in the Explanations section of the "Helpful Files" section of the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Explanations
Direct link (if it works):
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/dynamics.pdf
I don't know how old this document is, but Tina passed away over 11 years ago.
2
Talk about "Service with a smile"... Thanks Mike, I'm sure Joel will be very appreciative!
3
Hey Joel,
firstly, welcome to the forum.
Now, a user object is not actually part of NWC, but an add-on that is accessible from within NWC. Thus, AFAIK, NWC can't store changes for the object.
The easiest way to "remember" settings would be to have an arpeggio object configured how you want, then just copy that object to the each location that requires those particular settings.
I believe a permanent change would require editing the object code itself. Mike Shawaluk, the objects author, can probably shed more light.
firstly, welcome to the forum.
Now, a user object is not actually part of NWC, but an add-on that is accessible from within NWC. Thus, AFAIK, NWC can't store changes for the object.
The easiest way to "remember" settings would be to have an arpeggio object configured how you want, then just copy that object to the each location that requires those particular settings.
I believe a permanent change would require editing the object code itself. Mike Shawaluk, the objects author, can probably shed more light.
4
I'm not seeing any font that allows me to input [quarter note]=[half note]. I see the quarter note and half note symbols in several fonts, but these fonts seem to lack an "=" symbol.My PardyPack font suites all have notes AND the = symbol in them in the *text fonts (SwingText, MusikTextSans, MiusikTextSerif), HOWEVER, there is now a MUCH better way:
Install Mike Shawaluk's "TempoEquation" user object:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9984.0
5
<snip>While I understand your sentiment, there are circumstances in my preferred processes that make simply making rests invisible completely useless. The problem is related to invisible notes/rests consuming no horizontal space.
N.B. My suggestion is: forget the Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000 trick. It was used loong loong ago and now is only an annoyance. (Sorry Lawrie!)
6
Hi Jakeness,
you can make rests invisible - |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab)|Show on printed - Never|
For what you're wanting this will probably be fine, but the rest takes no horizontal space of its own - not really a problem if there is a corresponding object on the layered staff to consume the space.
Otherwise, you can use a usertool, like Global_mod, to move the rest off the page altogether (I usually set a rest offset of 2000 for this purpose). NB you can ONLY do this with a usertool, the NWC UI will only allow you to set a maximum offset of + or - 15.
Global_mod syntax for this is: Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000
you can make rests invisible - |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab)|Show on printed - Never|
For what you're wanting this will probably be fine, but the rest takes no horizontal space of its own - not really a problem if there is a corresponding object on the layered staff to consume the space.
Otherwise, you can use a usertool, like Global_mod, to move the rest off the page altogether (I usually set a rest offset of 2000 for this purpose). NB you can ONLY do this with a usertool, the NWC UI will only allow you to set a maximum offset of + or - 15.
Global_mod syntax for this is: Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000
7
<snip>Umm, "I told you so"?
The difference is sound quality is amazing! Feel free to say "I told you so."
Quote
Lawrie, I also have Audacity, and the mp3 plug in. Could you explain in more detail how you use it to make mp3s from NWC? Also, I am looking for more help with Audacity. I have some specific questions about editing live recordings. Do you know the best place to do that?I'm an EXTREMELY basic user of Audacity - there are way better people than me to ask. As for how I use it for mp3s it's really quite simple:
- Start Audacity and NWC, load the song to be recorded into NWC
- On the Audacity screen make sure the recording device is set appropriately - this is system dependant, but on my current notebook I can choose either "Speakers/Headphone" or "Stereo Mix" - both will work
- In Audacity click the record button
- <Alt+Tab> to NWC and click play - this first time is for testing and parameter setting
- <Alt+Tab> back to
NWCAudacity and watch the recording - make sure it's doing what you expect and check the level - avoid letting it "clip" but keep the level as high as you can below that level. - Once you're happy click Stop and playback the recording and listen to the results you achieved - if it's OK then go to the next step, if not delete the recording just made (click the "x" at the top left of the track window) and repeat from 3 above
- Now the test is good delete the last recording and start the recording process again:
- In the Audacity window click record
- <Alt+Tab> to NWC and click play
- <Alt+Tab> back to Audacity and watch the recording
- When the playback finishes click stop
- You may wish to slightly trim any silences at the start and the end - don't remove them completely as some dead space is useful
- SAVE the recording
- There are plugins for Audacity that you may want to use for further manipulation - this is up to you to explore
- Save as required - perhaps consider versions if you're experimenting with effects etc.
- Export your mp3 |File|Export|Export as mp3|
- Follow the prompts
- Exit Audacity
- At this point I would delete any saved Audacity versions you no longer wish to keep - I never usually keep any of mine once exported to mp3
Hope this helps.
<Edits> in italics
8
It sounds like your Midiman cable is an actual MIDI cable which uses a 5 pin DIN connector at both ends. It is used to connect one MIDI interface to another. Your laptop won't have a MIDI interface in it, so you will need to acquire one. The only real way to do this is a USB to MIDI adaptor - they're relatively cheap and easy to get.
E.G. https://www.amazon.com.au/Converter-Keyboard-Channels-Supports-Computer/dp/B07FDYYBWW
E.G. https://www.amazon.com.au/Converter-Keyboard-Channels-Supports-Computer/dp/B07FDYYBWW
9
Hi guys,
update on my earlier missive:
I'd forgotten about ASIO.
Using an ASIO driver, like ASIO4ALL with your VST host (and maybe other softsynth configs) can eliminate latency issues - this is seriously worth a look if you're having latency issues with your softsynth setup.
Check out the Scripto for my VST intro - it's out of date now, but includes an ASIO discussion:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/vstfdum.pdf
update on my earlier missive:
I'd forgotten about ASIO.
Using an ASIO driver, like ASIO4ALL with your VST host (and maybe other softsynth configs) can eliminate latency issues - this is seriously worth a look if you're having latency issues with your softsynth setup.
Check out the Scripto for my VST intro - it's out of date now, but includes an ASIO discussion:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/vstfdum.pdf
10
An easier way: viewer -> Options -> Automatic launch in NWCYep, that's how I have mine set, and is the default if NWC is already installed when you install the viewer. I was just informing about options...
11
The viewer provides alternative ways of playing and displaying your scores. Having it installed alongside the editor allows you to see and use your files the way people you distribute to who only have access to the viewer; not everyone needs to buy NWC.
My loop button goes back to the starting point after reaching the end of the score. The starting point need not be the beginning. I would expect to be able to use the loop button to somehow loop a section so I could concentrate on it but I don't know if it does this. I almost never use the viewer and certainly not to its fullest capabilities, in fact, I've opened it more times tonight while checking things for posting than I have in the last several years combined...
Sorry I can't help more.
My loop button goes back to the starting point after reaching the end of the score. The starting point need not be the beginning. I would expect to be able to use the loop button to somehow loop a section so I could concentrate on it but I don't know if it does this. I almost never use the viewer and certainly not to its fullest capabilities, in fact, I've opened it more times tonight while checking things for posting than I have in the last several years combined...
Sorry I can't help more.
12
A little further discussion:
This viewer behaviour is by design. When you install the viewer after the editor, the viewer becomes the default application for nwc files. For most of us thisis would be a nuisance as we would normally want a double click on a song file to open the editor, hence the automatic launch of the editor. Of course, if you don't have the editor installed then there is no problem, you just go straight into the viewer so file sharing with music teams that don't edit the nwc files is easy and they get what they need.
Having the option to disable the automatic launch into NWC stops that behaviour and makes opening files to edit from explorer difficult, though not impossible, just right click and open with...
You can also manually launch the editor from the viewer from the File menu, or pressing <Ctrl+2>
edited - in italics
This viewer behaviour is by design. When you install the viewer after the editor, the viewer becomes the default application for nwc files. For most of us this
Having the option to disable the automatic launch into NWC stops that behaviour and makes opening files to edit from explorer difficult, though not impossible, just right click and open with...
You can also manually launch the editor from the viewer from the File menu, or pressing <Ctrl+2>
edited - in italics
13
Yup, I did notice that... 
14
The viewer has a setting that automatically launches NWC when set. This option works when opening a file from explorer. To use the viewer you need to open the viewer, THEN open an NWC file from within the viewer.
You can disable this in the viewers |Tools|Options menu
You can disable this in the viewers |Tools|Options menu
15
I don't know about latency because I never recorded "live" that way, but I have a different (and odd) problem with it. See here.Yeah, trying to record like this just makes the latency obvious, doesn't mean it isn't there
I recommend it if you play jazz...
Quote
Thank you Lawrie for giving some estimate of note duration.I am too, but I got carried away
I could have calculated it myself and I could also have seen it in the MIDI files, but apparently I'm lazy.
Quote
(milliseconds, not millisiemens pleaseBugger - I thought it looked wrong)
Quote
Think: at 120 bpm a quaver (eighth) has a duration if 250 ms (milliseconds, not millisiemens pleaseInteresting observation.
Easy to understand how hard is to build a usable sound to midi converter for a cello!
Quote
So do I, but remember that even the (today) trivial USB 1.1 normally in use with low cost microcontrollers can work at 1.5 MB/s (in practice let say about 1 µs per byte)!I don't think much latency would be in the USB connection itself, but rather in the electronics converting to MIDI and then getting that data into the synth, and the synths generation of the audio stream.
My own USB to MIDI converter (wherever it is) used to transmit from my MIDI keyboard and into my PC quite well, but I have no idea what latency there may have been. What I do know is that when recording while using my Creative Soundcard hardware synth to generate the sounds played to, there wasn't enough latency to cause any problems with the import into NWC. Thus I imagine any noticeable latency would probably have to be in the external synth. Hopefully it would be fast enough for it to be negligible.
16
Hey @jemco
couple of things:
a) have you configured the MIDI input of NWC? |Tools|Options|Record(tab)
b) did you press the record button when you wanted to use the keyboard for input
c) do you know about "step wise" and "live" recording? Get the user guide from here:
https://noteworthycomposer.com/info/guide.htm (you want page 38)
FYI:
It is some years since I used MIDI recording but from memory this is about how it goes.
a) If you just click record then every note you press will import as a crotchet (step wise recording).
b) To get varying duration from your playing you need a click track, or other already notated tracks to play with/against (live recording). If you have a file open and press record it will play the file and accept input from your midi device. NB, this method can be troubled by latency issues and make your recorded input "late"*. To overcome this I used to use a hardware synth (SoundBlaster) but with newer versions of windows and the lack of hardware synths these days I'd reverted to using the m$ synth which seems to have less latency problems than some other softsynths - experimentation will be in your future I suspect.
* What happens is that NWC plays the note AND listens to the MIDI input at pretty much exactly the same instant, BUT the data sent to the synth is is not rendered immediately (latency) so you don't hear the sounds you're playing to when NWC plays them, but sometime later. This results in you playing the keyboard behind the time that NWC plays the notes. If the latency is very low (no more than, say, 5 mS), then this isn't really a problem BUT if the latency is relatively great (more than, say, 10 mS) then you will get some very weird tied note values and late starts in your recording.
To give some perspective, at 120bpm (mm crotchet=120), crotchets (quarters) are 500 mS apart (2 per second), quavers (eighths) are 250 mS apart, semiquavers (sixteenths) are 125 mS apart. If your latency is running at 12.5 mS then that is 10% of the time between starts of successive semiquavers. That's almost a semihemidemisemiquaver (128th) which is 15.75 mS... NWC will notate this delay on an import, and trust me, trying to clean up all the tied ridiculous note values is a pain!
So, a hardware synth will have the least latency, and thus least likely to cause problems, m$ GS wavetable softsynth has very low latency, my old Yamaha S-XG50 softsynth had quite bad latency, when I was experimenting with VST hosts I experienced bad latency. I haven't experimented with my current Coolsoft softsynth as I no longer have need to import from MIDI keyboard and have no idea where my USB MIDI interface is... Thus, in the absence of a hardware synth, I'd use the m$ one unless you feel like experimenting. Simply change your MIDI out to m$ for doing the recording, than change it back to your preferred synth when your done.
For a substitute hardware synth you might consider an external, USB connected device. I remember both Roland and Creative had such devices. I imagine others like Korg and Yamaha etc. did too. I have no idea what's available these days or at what pricepoint. I also don't know how much latency the USB interface might introduce.
<after a quick google search>
This is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but it gets expensive and messy setting these things up because you then need an amplifier and speakers to connect it to (NB I'm not recommending this device, I just found it after a quick google search, I have no idea if it's any good at all). And I still don't know if it will have too much latency or not...
https://www.amazon.com.au/S-Engine-USB-MIDI-Sound-Module/dp/B01E5GGKE4/ref=pd_lpo_267_t_0/357-8896501-2077263?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01E5GGKE4&pd_rd_r=3e3b601a-3007-4a8f-8887-cbb12b8ee422&pd_rd_w=hRRcT&pd_rd_wg=B7Ogv&pf_rd_p=ad2d1e6e-bc60-4795-b4c0-2dbd35f6678d&pf_rd_r=4STVRX3NZ5TP96C4HPSD&psc=1&refRID=4STVRX3NZ5TP96C4HPSD
couple of things:
a) have you configured the MIDI input of NWC? |Tools|Options|Record(tab)
b) did you press the record button when you wanted to use the keyboard for input
c) do you know about "step wise" and "live" recording? Get the user guide from here:
https://noteworthycomposer.com/info/guide.htm (you want page 38)
FYI:
It is some years since I used MIDI recording but from memory this is about how it goes.
a) If you just click record then every note you press will import as a crotchet (step wise recording).
b) To get varying duration from your playing you need a click track, or other already notated tracks to play with/against (live recording). If you have a file open and press record it will play the file and accept input from your midi device. NB, this method can be troubled by latency issues and make your recorded input "late"*. To overcome this I used to use a hardware synth (SoundBlaster) but with newer versions of windows and the lack of hardware synths these days I'd reverted to using the m$ synth which seems to have less latency problems than some other softsynths - experimentation will be in your future I suspect.
* What happens is that NWC plays the note AND listens to the MIDI input at pretty much exactly the same instant, BUT the data sent to the synth is is not rendered immediately (latency) so you don't hear the sounds you're playing to when NWC plays them, but sometime later. This results in you playing the keyboard behind the time that NWC plays the notes. If the latency is very low (no more than, say, 5 mS), then this isn't really a problem BUT if the latency is relatively great (more than, say, 10 mS) then you will get some very weird tied note values and late starts in your recording.
To give some perspective, at 120bpm (mm crotchet=120), crotchets (quarters) are 500 mS apart (2 per second), quavers (eighths) are 250 mS apart, semiquavers (sixteenths) are 125 mS apart. If your latency is running at 12.5 mS then that is 10% of the time between starts of successive semiquavers. That's almost a semihemidemisemiquaver (128th) which is 15.75 mS... NWC will notate this delay on an import, and trust me, trying to clean up all the tied ridiculous note values is a pain!
So, a hardware synth will have the least latency, and thus least likely to cause problems, m$ GS wavetable softsynth has very low latency, my old Yamaha S-XG50 softsynth had quite bad latency, when I was experimenting with VST hosts I experienced bad latency. I haven't experimented with my current Coolsoft softsynth as I no longer have need to import from MIDI keyboard and have no idea where my USB MIDI interface is... Thus, in the absence of a hardware synth, I'd use the m$ one unless you feel like experimenting. Simply change your MIDI out to m$ for doing the recording, than change it back to your preferred synth when your done.
For a substitute hardware synth you might consider an external, USB connected device. I remember both Roland and Creative had such devices. I imagine others like Korg and Yamaha etc. did too. I have no idea what's available these days or at what pricepoint. I also don't know how much latency the USB interface might introduce.
<after a quick google search>
This is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but it gets expensive and messy setting these things up because you then need an amplifier and speakers to connect it to (NB I'm not recommending this device, I just found it after a quick google search, I have no idea if it's any good at all). And I still don't know if it will have too much latency or not...
https://www.amazon.com.au/S-Engine-USB-MIDI-Sound-Module/dp/B01E5GGKE4/ref=pd_lpo_267_t_0/357-8896501-2077263?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01E5GGKE4&pd_rd_r=3e3b601a-3007-4a8f-8887-cbb12b8ee422&pd_rd_w=hRRcT&pd_rd_wg=B7Ogv&pf_rd_p=ad2d1e6e-bc60-4795-b4c0-2dbd35f6678d&pf_rd_r=4STVRX3NZ5TP96C4HPSD&psc=1&refRID=4STVRX3NZ5TP96C4HPSD
17
<snip> When I try to open a project in viewer, it looks, behaves, and sounds identical to NWC2.<snip>At this point I'm guessing that:
a) you're still using the builtin m$ synth
b) you haven't gone into the Viewer configuration to change to a soundfont ( |tools|soundfont ) and are thus using the m$ synth there too.
18
FWIW, I've moved to using the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth with soundfonts. There are other softsynths similar to Coolsoft such as BassMidi (I believe this is built on the same basic code as the one in the viewer) so you have choice. These install at startup so are always available and can be used by other products too.
Prior to buying my current machine I used a HP Laptop running XP and used a Yamaha XG50 softsynth which sadly never made it past XP hence the new softsynth.
FYI, the m$ synth is a product built on a sound set licenced from Roland in the days of Windows 3, and never updated. It's no wonder it sounds like garbage these days.
The only downside of using soundfonts is the time it takes to find one you like.
Prior to buying my current machine I used a HP Laptop running XP and used a Yamaha XG50 softsynth which sadly never made it past XP hence the new softsynth.
FYI, the m$ synth is a product built on a sound set licenced from Roland in the days of Windows 3, and never updated. It's no wonder it sounds like garbage these days.
The only downside of using soundfonts is the time it takes to find one you like.
19
20
Thanks for weighing in on this issue. I've come to realize that my new computer from two years ago, which was a gift from my spouse, actually has only a third of the space of my previous. Which I have now filled up. I'm a little shocked to be honest. I'll need to investigate an external drive.Only 2 years old? I think I'd install a new, bigger HDD.
And look for cat videos to delete ...
Thanks for your help!
21
USB external drives really aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things - perhaps you should grab a few (one at a time to spread the pain) and move the video files to them - this will make your PC's hard drive last longer...
Yes and I got the very helpful point. It's going to be a challenge for me because as a performing composer, I want to hang on to all performances of my work, whether by me or others. Due to the limitations of my smaller hard drive, it did fill up much faster than expected.
Thanks, as always, for your input and help.
E.G. at the one store I checked I can buy a 2TB USB drive for $139 Australian - that's about $95 US at the moment, and we always get ripped off on these things so I imagine the US price would be considerably less than $95. (Just looked it up - Amazon have a similar drive for $75US, and there seem to be even cheaper ones)
22
Wow! I only know about a duet: Duetto Buffo Di Due GattiBahaha - I'd forgotten that little bit of fun - if you set the pan for one cat to 32 and the other to 96 it significantly improves the effect - you get 2 cats in the spatial realm.
23
Looks and sounds interesting - I wonder if SEBC will find it useful.
I only see 2 concerns:
1) you would need to install a python interpreter - not really a big deal I wouldn't think.
2) it needs to be run manually each time you go to edit the file whereas an object would just happen.
I only see 2 concerns:
1) you would need to install a python interpreter - not really a big deal I wouldn't think.
2) it needs to be run manually each time you go to edit the file whereas an object would just happen.
24
Thanks guys, perhaps Eric will see this and possibly consider it worthwhile incorporating access to the needed library(ies).
Of course, it would need much more than my simple suggestion to justify it. TBH I'm not sure I'd even have a need personally, I was mainly thinking about SEBC's problem.
Of course, it would need much more than my simple suggestion to justify it. TBH I'm not sure I'd even have a need personally, I was mainly thinking about SEBC's problem.
25
I am almost certain the answer to this is "no". User tools can be written using any number of languages and subsystems, but tools are invoked directly by the user. User objects are invoked by NWC itself, while the score is being viewed, edited, played or printed, and I know of no other mechanism for calling or creating user objects other than the Lua framework that has been documented by NWC.Hi Mike,
I had a look at the lua website and found a link to the lua binaries site ( http://luabinaries.sourceforge.net/ ) which in turn had a link to:
lua for Windows: https://github.com/rjpcomputing/luaforwindows
which includes a bunch of libraries. Might one of these libraries be of assistance in accessing the metadata and able to be installed to NWC?
OTOH, this is starting to seem like too much work for too little actually useful return...
26
I think we've discussed this sometime ago - and I think the answer is no, you can't access file system metadata. Actually, my working understanding of NWC's Lua subsystem is that you can exactly call the documented functions, nothing else - just because the backing Lua libraries of other functions are not bundled with NWC.How about without lua? Are user objects possible without using lua?
E.G. VBscript can be used to create user tools. Can it, or any other language, be used to create user objects, and can it be used to extract the *filesystem metadata for the currently open file?
* I know it will return such metadata using OS calls, can such calls be made specifying the currently open file from within NWC?
27
Hi peoples,
I've just read the update from SEBC in this topic:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9684.0
and it got me to thinking.
Is there anything in the lua environment, NWC libraries, the user object environment, or any other method to allow one to extract file system metadata?
If such a thing is possible then it should be possible to create an object that can print selected metadata.
I envisage such an object would allow the user to print selected info, like the filename, last modified date and time, maybe even file size etc.. I also see this object being able to be selectively printed as a watermark, with user controlled scaling to enable coverage up to the whole page and at a selectable angle.
I've just read the update from SEBC in this topic:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9684.0
and it got me to thinking.
Is there anything in the lua environment, NWC libraries, the user object environment, or any other method to allow one to extract file system metadata?
If such a thing is possible then it should be possible to create an object that can print selected metadata.
I envisage such an object would allow the user to print selected info, like the filename, last modified date and time, maybe even file size etc.. I also see this object being able to be selectively printed as a watermark, with user controlled scaling to enable coverage up to the whole page and at a selectable angle.
28
<snip>
@ Lawrie:
Since my stop list consists of only one "bank" containing fewer than 127 "instruments" the default Bank Select parameters (0,0) are fine.
My old NTWPATCH.INI is attached (in a zip file). It won't tell you anything more than the itree that I already posted does, but it might enable you to see what's happening in Noteworthy v 1.75.
The file that I posted two days ago works with v 1.75, but I am attaching to this post versions of the same new NWC and MIDI files (created yesterday with the aid of a template) for v 1.75 and v 2.75. Those saved from v 1.75 work; those saved from v 2.75 don't.
<snip>
Thanks Graham.
RE bank info: makes sense.
RE ntwpatch.ini - thank you - confirms what you say,
RE MIDI files - I was hoping to find a MIDI analyzer to download that would let me see if the two matched as far as MIDI data was concerned, but the ones I found wouldn't show the changes on channel 16 - still looking but now not holding my breath. Maybe Rick has something that will tell the story.
I'd hoped to be more helpful, but for the moment I'm out of ideas,
Lawrie
29
Hi GrahamH,
I notice that you are sending Bank Select data in the instrument change. That's fine, but I was wondering if the bank selection data is correct? There is no Bank Select data in the itree you posted so it is defaulting to 0,0. This is not to say that is not correct as it may very well be, but can you confirm this please?
I no longer have access to my old ntwpatch.ini to compare against, but perhaps you could attach a copy of yours anyway so we can investigate.
FWIW it make no sense to me that 2.75 wouldn't send a correct MIDI data stream unless it's getting incorrect setup information in the first place. Of course, I've been known to be wrong before, on at least, ooh, several occasions
Perhaps you could also post a v1.75 .nwc file that works correctly too. Hopefully the conversion process won't alter the instrument patch data during the import.
I notice that you are sending Bank Select data in the instrument change. That's fine, but I was wondering if the bank selection data is correct? There is no Bank Select data in the itree you posted so it is defaulting to 0,0. This is not to say that is not correct as it may very well be, but can you confirm this please?
I no longer have access to my old ntwpatch.ini to compare against, but perhaps you could attach a copy of yours anyway so we can investigate.
FWIW it make no sense to me that 2.75 wouldn't send a correct MIDI data stream unless it's getting incorrect setup information in the first place. Of course, I've been known to be wrong before, on at least, ooh, several occasions
Perhaps you could also post a v1.75 .nwc file that works correctly too. Hopefully the conversion process won't alter the instrument patch data during the import.
30
This tool add 'rest measures' to every staff that has less measures then the active staff.Does it affect ALL inactive staves, or only the visible ones?
I ask because I use templates that often have many more staves than I might use for any particular work and filling staves I'm not going to use would be something of a nuisance I reckon.
31
Given how dramatically things have changed in the last 50 years, I can't imagine what they'd be like in another 200. We'll all have wireless transceivers installed in our skulls at birth (with an optional MIDI equivalent add-in when we are old enough to appreciate music). <snip>Oh dear God, I hope not!
32
I stand to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that NWC's repeats (excluding "local repeats") follow the classic approach:
All repeats are active, using the appropriate n-time bar (special ending) based on the count of how many repeats have occurred for each repeated section UNTIL a D.C. or D.S. are reached, in which case all repeats are ignored and the n-time bar that has a "D" directive is used for each otherwise repeated section. This is a departure from normal notation in that a "D" repeat doesn't actually exist but is used by NWC to denote the n-time bar (special ending) that should be used after the D.C. or D.S. Also note that n-time bars (special endings) are terminated by ANY decorated barline.
The repeat counter becomes active again when you enter a CODA.
This approach is fine if all you notate are classical style works that fit this model. Not so good for, say, jazz where repeats are usually (but not always - just to confuse things) active after a D.C. or D.S.
I once proposed a change to allow for a setting of some kind that allowed for n-time bars to be active AFTER a D.C. or D.S. but nothing eventuated. I seem to recall a comment about it taking a major re-write of the playback engine to implement. Anyhow, this would have allowed Flurmy's dilemma to be easily resolved.
I recall someone (I think RickG) also asking that double barlines NOT terminate n-time bars. I think this would be more useful if it could be done with a flag of some kind, say as a barline property, that optionally prevented this behaviour.
I've also suggested that a double D.S. and Codetta (double Coda) would also be useful. I see these things about once or twice a year in works that I play and sometimes need to transpose. For display purposes they are easily enough entered as text, but playback would be nice, however not nice enough to make me want to notate around it
All repeats are active, using the appropriate n-time bar (special ending) based on the count of how many repeats have occurred for each repeated section UNTIL a D.C. or D.S. are reached, in which case all repeats are ignored and the n-time bar that has a "D" directive is used for each otherwise repeated section. This is a departure from normal notation in that a "D" repeat doesn't actually exist but is used by NWC to denote the n-time bar (special ending) that should be used after the D.C. or D.S. Also note that n-time bars (special endings) are terminated by ANY decorated barline.
The repeat counter becomes active again when you enter a CODA.
This approach is fine if all you notate are classical style works that fit this model. Not so good for, say, jazz where repeats are usually (but not always - just to confuse things) active after a D.C. or D.S.
I once proposed a change to allow for a setting of some kind that allowed for n-time bars to be active AFTER a D.C. or D.S. but nothing eventuated. I seem to recall a comment about it taking a major re-write of the playback engine to implement. Anyhow, this would have allowed Flurmy's dilemma to be easily resolved.
I recall someone (I think RickG) also asking that double barlines NOT terminate n-time bars. I think this would be more useful if it could be done with a flag of some kind, say as a barline property, that optionally prevented this behaviour.
I've also suggested that a double D.S. and Codetta (double Coda) would also be useful. I see these things about once or twice a year in works that I play and sometimes need to transpose. For display purposes they are easily enough entered as text, but playback would be nice, however not nice enough to make me want to notate around it
33
<snip>I surely don't get the toilet paper thing either. They might get a runny nose, they're not gonna get a runny bum!
Some days ago I heard about toilet paper shortage in Japan, then a friend of mine reported the same from Portugal, then the USA, then my cousin and Bart from Belgium...
Toilet paper shortage? Why? Who can explain that to me?
My friend from Lisbon said there are many jokes about it... (And Bart demonstrated it too.
<snip
It's so bad here in Oz that toilet paper cannot be found for love nor money AND there are busloads of people traveling the regional areas and stripping supermarkets. Not only dunny roll either, but tissues, paper towels and food staples. Especially canned goods, rice and pasta. The travelling "strippers" have created such a problem that many regional supermarkets are demanding ID to prove people live within the area the store services.
These idiots are creating the very shortages they're frightened of. I used to think I lived in a relatively intelligent society... Clearly I do not.
The major supermarkets have introduced reduced opening hours and are now dedicating the first hour after opening to disadvantaged shoppers like the elderly and disabled just to ensure they get a fair go at buying what they need. I fully support this initiative and applaud them for it.
Some people are claiming that the "strippers" are sending the stuff overseas. I hope this isn't true, but if it is we should deport the mongrels to whatever country they're sending to WITHOUT their purchased goods!
This pandemic is creating a new world too. I predict many "bricks and mortar" stores will close permanently, as will many office blocks as workers and their employers come to grips with the currently enforced telecommuting. Should see a lot less cars on the road as a result, and less crowding on public transport.
Unfortunately, many small business and sole traders are going to go bankrupt too. And there doesn't seem to be a musician in the country with any gigs. I'm in 5 bands, as well as playing occasionally in church. Four of the bands have cancelled rehearsals and gigs, and the 5th is about to. I expect playing in church may go too, though we may come up with a workaround for that. One of the churches we have a close association with have moved to streaming their services.
34
Thanks Mike,
in pretty much the same position as you.
Thoughts and prayers for all those having a worse time.
Lawrie
in pretty much the same position as you.
Thoughts and prayers for all those having a worse time.
Lawrie
35
This is last weeks update - It was delayed by an annoying case of a ruptured appendix.I assume all is well now?
36
Hey Mike,
I don't know for certain, but perhaps the installer checks to see if the fonts are there and skips them if they are?
I know other things get skipped in the upgrade installer if they're already there.
I don't know for certain, but perhaps the installer checks to see if the fonts are there and skips them if they are?
I know other things get skipped in the upgrade installer if they're already there.
37
Hey Melismata,
can you do me a favour please? Given I created the font you're referring to I am a bit concerned you're having any kind of problem with it.
Note that there are 2 characters used for the Marcato symbol, depending on stem orientation. Your original sample above suggests that the downward version of the symbol is missing from your installed font.
Could you use Windows Explorer to navigate to your C:\Windows\Fonts folder, locate the NWC2SwingDings font, and press <Enter> on it?
A dialogue should open with examples of the font PLUS, at the top of the dialogue you should see a version number. That version should be 1.1
If it is lower than 1.1 then you have an older version that may not include all the glyphs.
The easy way to update would be to visit:
https://noteworthycomposer.com/uc/pardypack/index.htm
and download the removal and setup tools.
Close NWC, run the removal tool, then run the installer and you should be updated to the latest versions of all the suites.
OR, you could visit http://zoundz.pardyline.com.au/fontindex.html and download the V2.5 update and just delete the old and install the new NWC2*Dings system fonts. This is a little more fiddly to do than simply using the installers above.
N.B. if you use this method make sure you DO NOT unzip directly into the Fonts folder - this will NOT install the fonts correctly, you MUST unzip to another folder and then copy them into the Fonts folder. Also, do NOT uninstall fonts not included in the update zip file.
can you do me a favour please? Given I created the font you're referring to I am a bit concerned you're having any kind of problem with it.
Note that there are 2 characters used for the Marcato symbol, depending on stem orientation. Your original sample above suggests that the downward version of the symbol is missing from your installed font.
Could you use Windows Explorer to navigate to your C:\Windows\Fonts folder, locate the NWC2SwingDings font, and press <Enter> on it?
A dialogue should open with examples of the font PLUS, at the top of the dialogue you should see a version number. That version should be 1.1
If it is lower than 1.1 then you have an older version that may not include all the glyphs.
The easy way to update would be to visit:
https://noteworthycomposer.com/uc/pardypack/index.htm
and download the removal and setup tools.
Close NWC, run the removal tool, then run the installer and you should be updated to the latest versions of all the suites.
OR, you could visit http://zoundz.pardyline.com.au/fontindex.html and download the V2.5 update and just delete the old and install the new NWC2*Dings system fonts. This is a little more fiddly to do than simply using the installers above.
N.B. if you use this method make sure you DO NOT unzip directly into the Fonts folder - this will NOT install the fonts correctly, you MUST unzip to another folder and then copy them into the Fonts folder. Also, do NOT uninstall fonts not included in the update zip file.
38
Noteworthy has been of FB for years - it is not a very active presence and is only likely to be if the denizens of FB discover NWC.
I seriously doubt that this forum will disappear any time soon, and certainly not in favour of FB
I seriously doubt that this forum will disappear any time soon, and certainly not in favour of FB
39
Hey Mike,
I haven't noticed any issues, but I haven't done much lately either...
My default custom template includes a tempo.ms object so it's not as if I'm not using it as such.
I haven't noticed any issues, but I haven't done much lately either...
My default custom template includes a tempo.ms object so it's not as if I'm not using it as such.
40
I wonder if there could be a mechanism whereby once user objects have reached release/non-beta stage a table could updated by the author with the name of the object, a brief description of its purpose and a link to the thread that's related to it?
I mean, you have to get authorised as an object developer to get your objects included the repository anyway, perhaps the same authorisation could be used to grant editing access to the table.
The link to the table could then be a "sticky" at the top of the Object Plugins forum.
I mean, you have to get authorised as an object developer to get your objects included the repository anyway, perhaps the same authorisation could be used to grant editing access to the table.
The link to the table could then be a "sticky" at the top of the Object Plugins forum.
41
It might be worthwhile checking to see if you have sufficient file system rights.
By default NWC templates live in the:
"C:\Program Files\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\Template" folder for 64 bit systems, and the
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\Template" for x86 (32 bit) systems
From about Win 7 onwards this location and those under it (like the CUSTOM templates) is read only unless you are the Administrator user.
If this is the problem then you have a couple of options:
a) change the filesystem rights to ...\Template and below to allow read/write (really Full) access, or
b) change the template location in NWC ( |Tools|Options|Folders(tab)|Templates) to a location that you have filesystem rights to already.
By default NWC templates live in the:
"C:\Program Files\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\Template" folder for 64 bit systems, and the
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\Template" for x86 (32 bit) systems
From about Win 7 onwards this location and those under it (like the CUSTOM templates) is read only unless you are the Administrator user.
If this is the problem then you have a couple of options:
a) change the filesystem rights to ...\Template and below to allow read/write (really Full) access, or
b) change the template location in NWC ( |Tools|Options|Folders(tab)|Templates) to a location that you have filesystem rights to already.
42
Ahh, now I understand.
The answer is no. I once asked Eric about automatic installs as new objects became available and his advice was that because installed objects affected the start time for NWC (each installed object must be loaded at NWC startup) he wouldn't be automatically installing any new objects (excluding those included with the NWC installer), preferring that we choose which objects to install.
They are supposed to be selected from posts in the Object Plugin board.
The answer is no. I once asked Eric about automatic installs as new objects became available and his advice was that because installed objects affected the start time for NWC (each installed object must be loaded at NWC startup) he wouldn't be automatically installing any new objects (excluding those included with the NWC installer), preferring that we choose which objects to install.
They are supposed to be selected from posts in the Object Plugin board.
43
Just a small observation, NWC's update mechanism is for User Objects, not User Tools. Warren's suggestion re: tools is valid, OTOH, Objects use the online synch button in the <Ctrl+J> dialogue.
44
Personally I've never had this problem. Could you post an example .nwc file that does this, including a specific description as to how that particular file misbehaves, so some of us can check to see if we're having the same problem on our own installations and if so, to analyse the file to try to help determine the cause.
<edit> - also, if it's setup for multiple synths please tell us that too.
<edit> - also, if it's setup for multiple synths please tell us that too.
45
Those are actually very helpful. They suggest a further set of changes/enhancements:I like this a lot!Do either of the above make sense?
- Add a "text" parameter, which would precede the equation. If that text is non-blank, then put parens around the equation, as is currently done for the Tempo function (and Tempo.ms)
- Potentially, merge this functionality with the existing Tempo.ms object, but only for the double note (swing) versions. And let TempoEquation.ms just handle the single note equations, including the centering on the barline around the '='.
46
Hi Lawrie - thanks for the vote of confidenceNo worries
Quote
Regarding the NWC placement options: those are present for native items, like text, dynamics, etc., but unfortunately not for user objects. To implement those alignment options would take quite a bit of extra code.I kinda wondered if that might be the case - shame the NWC API/Libraries don't allow you to hook into that routine.
Quote
Actually, while thinking about this, I came up with an idea that I think might work. In the examples I have seen in BB, the single note equations are centered on the '=' over the next bar, while the double note (swing rhythm) equations are rendered inline. Do you think that would make sense? Or, I could add a parameter to specify the alignment for either type. (Although to be honest, the single note equations would be easier to center than the double note ones.)That does make sense for the double note ones, but I'd still like to see "collision avoidance" capability for the single versions. If that isn't going to work easily then it certainly isn't a deal breaker, and the "=" should definitely be centred on the barline.
47
Hey Mike - I like!
Certainly having the "=" centred at the barline should most definitely be the default.
I just looked up tempo equations in Behind Bars, and they don't show brackets (parentheses) around them; they only show the parens for a numeric tempo marker that is not preceded/followed by text (the same as NWC's tempo marker). Still, it would not be difficult to include an option for this, if there is a need for it. However, BB also shows optional arrows on either side of the equation, which I could theoretically add. They also suggest centering the "=" on the barline, which I haven't done yet, but should probably do.I would like the option of parentheses, not sure about the arrows having not seen them in use AFAIK. As for centreing the "=" on the barline, I think this would be desirable, however... Would using the usual justification/placement options in NWC be a better alternative? You know, Left; Centre; Right, at next note/bar; best fit; best fit forward; as staff signature, with the centreing based on the position of the "=" sign. I only suggest this as I've seen situations where there was enough going on in the score that "collision avoidance" was necessary.
Certainly having the "=" centred at the barline should most definitely be the default.
48
Hey Mike,
I was thinking about what's available in the system font a couple of days ago and had already come to the conclusion that you'd have to draw the stems and beams to maintain consistency.
As for the triplet bracket and flagged stems, my personal preference is for the bracket to extend over the flag, even though it is inconsistent with how NWC does it.
Perhaps having the option for where the normal triplet bracket ends could be an enhancement in NWC 2.8? Then a future version of the object might be able to read that setting and adjust accordingly.
I was thinking about what's available in the system font a couple of days ago and had already come to the conclusion that you'd have to draw the stems and beams to maintain consistency.
As for the triplet bracket and flagged stems, my personal preference is for the bracket to extend over the flag, even though it is inconsistent with how NWC does it.
Perhaps having the option for where the normal triplet bracket ends could be an enhancement in NWC 2.8? Then a future version of the object might be able to read that setting and adjust accordingly.
49
Yeah, I figured playback control might be a (swinging) bridge too far...
Single vs double vs both:
For development I'd guess that separating them would be easiest. Note that the single variety is used in many ways, but if you're only doing the image and not playback then this is irrelevant.
For the "single" you will need to be able to have: any note value (including dotted) = any note value (including dotted).
The "double" seems almost self evident to me.
The swing symbol is very often used in conjunction with a metronome mark. Perhaps this object can (optionally) function as a metronome mark too in that it can set the base tempo (forget trying to swing things).
For single = single, I know there can sometimes be confusion as to which side of the equation relates to which part of the score...
I believe the original convention was:
"new time value" = "old time value", but
current convention now seems to be:
"old time value" = "new time value".
It really needs context to make clear. For me, the thing to remember is that the PULSE remains at the same tempo, regardless of the note value (crotchet vs minim vs quaver etc.).
E.G. going from a section in, say, 4/4 where the pulse is 4 in a bar to a section in, say, 3/4 where the pulse is 1 in a bar:
Old way: Dotted Minim = Crotchet
New way: Crotchet = Dotted Minim
Remember, the pulse must remain the same. In this example if the 4/4 section was crotchet = 100 then the 3/4 section must be Dotted Minim = 100. This effectively triples the crotchet speed, but the pulse remains the same...
Using scaled system font sounds like a great idea.
Single vs double vs both:
For development I'd guess that separating them would be easiest. Note that the single variety is used in many ways, but if you're only doing the image and not playback then this is irrelevant.
For the "single" you will need to be able to have: any note value (including dotted) = any note value (including dotted).
The "double" seems almost self evident to me.
The swing symbol is very often used in conjunction with a metronome mark. Perhaps this object can (optionally) function as a metronome mark too in that it can set the base tempo (forget trying to swing things).
For single = single, I know there can sometimes be confusion as to which side of the equation relates to which part of the score...
I believe the original convention was:
"new time value" = "old time value", but
current convention now seems to be:
"old time value" = "new time value".
It really needs context to make clear. For me, the thing to remember is that the PULSE remains at the same tempo, regardless of the note value (crotchet vs minim vs quaver etc.).
E.G. going from a section in, say, 4/4 where the pulse is 4 in a bar to a section in, say, 3/4 where the pulse is 1 in a bar:
Old way: Dotted Minim = Crotchet
New way: Crotchet = Dotted Minim
Remember, the pulse must remain the same. In this example if the 4/4 section was crotchet = 100 then the 3/4 section must be Dotted Minim = 100. This effectively triples the crotchet speed, but the pulse remains the same...
Using scaled system font sounds like a great idea.
50
Of course, no thread is complete without Mike saying "it can be done with a user object"Soooo Mike,
Since there hasn't been much activity lately on beta versions, I would be willing to create an object for this, if there is interest in that approach.
this proposed object...
Would it maybe be able to do the tempo adjustments too? Or maybe make that an optional feature in case someone needs more granular control?
What about quaver triplets that should be straight against the swing (does that make sense?)
I love the idea BTW.