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Topic: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter (Read 29150 times) previous topic - next topic

MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since I created the tool known as mxml2nwcc.exe, the MusicXML to Noteworthy converter that was using all kind of tricks to push the music data in Noteworthy.

With relatively new .nwctxt format, it's much easier to do the conversion, so all tricks aren't required anymore. I got a few free hours to work on the converter, and decided to simply rewrite it as an online converter. I think this move makes sense as it's much easier for me to push updates, it's much easier to install (you don't have to install it at all!), and doesn't require Noteworthy to be installed and running on the computer you run the converter.

So starting today, the old converter versions are not available anymore for download, and the new, enhanced online converter is available at https://www.niversoft.com/nwc.

And thanks to Phil Holmes who sent me some code and good ideas, the new version 2.0 is now able to handle many lines of lyrics.

I'll be open to comments, suggestions and bug reports, either here or directly by email. I've not been active at all in the NWC community lately, either in the forums or the newsgroups (which I don't even know if they are still used), but I'll try to keep an eye open to read your comments!

Nicolas

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #1 –
Note that I'm planning to enhance this converter so it can do the reverse operation too, converting nwctxt to MusicXML. And this should be a lot easier to do. Except for lyrics...

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #2 –
Hi Nicolas,

Sounds like a brilliant upgrade. 

I tried some xml files that I had previously used your old program to convert.
Your old program handles them OK however, the new one reports "File is empty"
 which it clearly isn't since I already converted to NWC with your version 1.12, and indeed, opening the xml in a text editor proves it os not empty. Any ideas ?

The xml file was created using photoscore.

Thanks

Richard
 
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #3 –
My logs show your file has been converted properly.

I think the issue is during the download, there may be some quirks I have to polish with Internet Explorer. If you can't try with another browser, I will keep you posted as soon as I fix it.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #4 –
Thank you Nicolas

Ok - Some results.

IE - You know the problem.
Moxilla Firefox worked perfectly.
Opera, seemed to think that the file was .nwc rather than .nwctxt Would not do a direct open since it told nwc that it was an nwc file and so nwc thought that the "binary" file was improperly treated as an ASCII file. However, if I did a save as and renamed to .nwctxt, all was fine.

The conversion is far superior to version 1.12, congratulations.  I shall do some proper testing in the next few days.

I have some more browsers installed which I shall try in a while, but so far, Firefox is the winner.
An option to re-download last result would be useful.
 
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #5 –
Safari reported "Empty File" - This may be cured with  your IE tweak perhaps.
Lunascape does not understand what to open the file with, but is OK if you tell it - but it doesn't remember the preference, it is greyed out.
Google Chrome worked perfectly
IE 64 bit did the same as IE 32 bit

So the winners are Firefox and Chrome.


Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #6 –
I'm working on the IE issue, the Safari issue should go away once IE works. My goal is to support Firefox, Chrome, IE8+, Safari and Opera.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #7 –

Safari and IE should be OK now, this was just a server configuration issue.

The Opera issue is a matter of content-type. There is no registered content-type for .nwctxt and apparently the one registered for .nwc does not give the result I expected. I reverted it to a default one and it works well.

NH

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #8 –
Confirm that Ie and IE 64 bit are now OK.
Confirm that Opera now works OK

There is still a problem with Safari . It never comes out of the processing and so doesn't get to the download stage.
The circular arrows keep on going in circles until you get fed up and close down Safari.

Lunascape (with Gecko engine) now works OK.  (Try the other two engines later)
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #9 –
Lunascape options:

Gecko engine - all ok
Web Kit Engine -  Offers save only, not a direct open - This is probably a feature of the Web Kit Engine - I wouldn't worry about it.
Trident engine (Same engine as IE) - Save is Ok but there is an issue with direct open - it doesn't.  I wouldn't worry.
 
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #10 –
Yeah I think you may be pushing the tests a bit too far :-)

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #11 –

Ok, it works in Safari too. I had to change server configuration specifically for Safari to workaround this very old known Safari bug with file uploads (I saw it first filed in 2007...)

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #12 –
Thank you, Nicolas, for both the old converter and the new one.
But I have the problem that, very often, I use NWC on my computer that has no internet connection.
You can understand that's quite inconvenient to have to move the files back and forth between computers in order to get access to your converter.
Isn't possible to have a version "downloadable"?

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #13 –
Confirm that Safari now comes out of processing but it doesn't offer a download file.
So at the moment - not a usable browser.

Quote from: niver –
Yeah I think you may be pushing the tests a bit too far :-)

Never heard that one before!  It just so happens that I have all of those browsers installed in order to test the Scriptorium website.

Quote from: Flurmy –
Thank you, Nicolas, for both the old converter and the new one.
... snip ...
Isn't possible to have a version "downloadable"?

I also much prefer a downloadable version.  There are many times when, for whatever reason, the Internet may not be available, least of which being away with your portable and unable to access it, or reluctant to pay expensive prices etc. Never mind if your site goes down or even ("Agghhh") - you change your mind.
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #14 –
Unfortunately, not anymore.

The online version can't run on your desktop, and the desktop version can't be used online. And I won't maintain two different versions of the software, I already barely have time for one.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #15 –
Rich, I don't have problems with Safari here, but anyway I don't think it's really an issue, people here are very unlikely to run it as their main browser, NWC don't run on a mac :)

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #16 –
And - check your Safari download dialog, maybe the download happens so quickly you don't notice it. Safari has the bad habit of automatically downloading anything it's offered to, without asking the user.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #17 –
Nope - that's not the problem.

I have checked the download area, nothing there.
I have checked the config - "Always promp before downloading is checked" 
I have even unblocked pop ups, just in case.

But if you're not worried, I'm certainly not.
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #18 –
Quote from: niver –
Unfortunately, not anymore.   The online version can't run on your desktop, and the desktop version can't be used online. And I won't maintain two different versions of the software, I already barely have time for one.

I am grateful for the old desktop version of your program; I have used it quite often and always been very pleased with the results. (Did I remember to say "thank you?")

While I expect I will find the new, online version very acceptable as well, I would like to ask if you can see your way clear to leaving the old, downloadable version available, perhaps in the Scriptorium, so it can be downloaded by those who don't already have it.  

The reason it is desirable is that some people may want to load the downloadable version onto a portable computing device (laptop, notebook, I-whatever, etc.) if they expect to travel someplace where they won't have internet access.  It works fine and would not need to be maintained; you could add a disclaimer to the hyperlink saying it is an "old version which is no longer supported but some might find it useful."

Of course, those who might want the downloadable version may already have it and could simply copy it across, but hard drives do crash and people do upgrade their systems.  I doubt that many people back up freeware...

 

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #19 –
Nicolas,

I find that I am not quite sure of how to do testing for you.

For example, are you only looking for things that have clearly been an incorrect conversion, or are you as well looking for items that could possibly be improved.

For example - If the xml says "<part-name>Sop</part-name>" would it be reasonable to say that this should become the "Staff Name" and "<part-abbreviation>Sop</part-abbreviation>"  become the label and/or abbreviation ?

Also, is it your intention to maintain split direction chords on two different layered staves? Or may there in future be an option to create split direction chords on one staff?

Very good addition to be able to handle more than one line of lyrics.

Nice work. 
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
are you as well looking for items that could possibly be improved.
I would start a new topic. This one is getting long and most of the replies so far are ephemeral (once the web page is debugged, there will not be much need to refer to them).
Registered user since 1996

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #21 –
Hi Nicolas,
thank you for the update.  I am yet to use it as I don't always need to do MusicXML conversions and being a little short of time I can't really do a decent test for you.

However, while I fully appreciate your points about preferring an online version, I very often do my most productive editing in places where I don't have internet access (or any other access for that matter).  For this reason, I would also like to have a downloadable version.

If you can see your way clear to an offline version it would be most appreciated.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #22 –

David, the old version of the program will not be made available anymore, sorry. Due to its nature, it only takes a small change in either NWC or Windows for it to stop working completely. I'm not even sure it would work under Windows 8, I have no intention to test it, and the mere existence of the .nwctxt format renders the whole conversion process of the old app completely obsolete.

The old program was about (only) 2000 lines of code. But nearly a third of it was used to push the converted code to NWC and could now be replaced by about five lines that saves the file. So it has to be rewritten anyway.

I chose the online way for convenience for me. To be able to push changes for everyone in a matter of seconds. To stop receiving emails from people who had problems with antiquated revisions, or who didn't want to download the 25Mb .NET 2.0 Framework and the countless updates to it.

I will continue to read this thread and advise, but for now I still think the online converter is the way to go.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #23 –
Richard, you don't need to start a new thread or use the forums at all to report a bug or suggest an improvement. Just drop me a mail, this is not a matter of public debate anyway. My email is available everywhere on the converter page.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #24 –
Quote
who didn't want to download the 25Mb .NET 2.0 Framework and the countless updates to it.

Indeed I installed .NET 2.0 (and 2.0 alone) only to be able to use your tool.
Should your old tool become obsolete (unusable), I for sure will remove it (.NET 2.0, I mean).

Quote
Due to its nature, it only takes a small change in either NWC or Windows for it to stop working completely. I'm not even sure it would work under Windows 8, I have no intention to test it, and the mere existence of the .nwctxt format renders the whole conversion process of the old app completely obsolete.

I fully agree.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #25 –
I've been using the old convertor for years, and it has served me VERY well.

I tried the on-line version just now, with a SHARPEYE created *.XML  out of a folder six layers down  in drive O:\
On line, the new convertor received my .xml file and copied the name back for me.

Please help, where do I go from there?
I could not find anything returned to my PC.

I'm running XP SP3, was using IE8 (Firefox is available)

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #26 –
After you uploaded the .xml file, the converter should have almost immediately offered you to download the converted version (same name, but with .nwctxt extension). If your file was "Il Pastor Fido_1 Largo", my logs confirm it has been converted successfully.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #27 –
The converted file was shown as 
Quote from: niver –
Il Pastor Fido_1 Largo.xml
not .nwctxt.

I only saw the name, did not understand that it could be downloaded.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #28 –
Haymo, if you're running Internet Explorer, you cannot drag&drop the xml file on the button or on the page. You must click the button and select the file there.
In Firefox, Chrome, Opera and Safari you can drag&drop the xml file on the button.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #29 –
Another great advantage of the online converter is that I always have enough information to quickly fix any issue that may arise, sometime even without even being notified of an issue by the user.

For instance, about 12 hours ago someone (I don't know who) had issues with a file named "v588_10b_Quonium Tu", and (maybe) another user with a file named "Polovtsian Dances". The converter likely only displayed "Failed" to the user. But with the log information gathered, both issues are already fixed and the new version deployed.

The same process could have taken a few days and several emails back and forth with the old version. And other users wouldn't have been notified of a new version available.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #30 –
Quote from: niver –
For instance, about 12 hours ago someone (I don't know who) had issues with a file named "v588_10b_Quonium Tu", and (maybe) another user with a file named "Polovtsian Dances". The converter likely only displayed "Failed" to the user. But with the log information gathered, both issues are already fixed and the new version deployed.

Guess who.

The errors I encountered, I also used to encounter with the old version and sure enough, the old version would not run this xml file. But I did what I used to do with the old version and re-did the order I did things in Photoscore, and then ran again, and all is OK (at least with the first one).  The second one, the Polovtsian Dances, I need to do some more work on, but I am working on other xml files at the moment (v588_11b_cum Sancto).  (I don't remember submitting the Dances but it must have been me since that is another piece I am working on - maybe I just tried another file on my disk since the first one had failed.)
Rich.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #31 –
Good - both files (even the old version) should work now.

I also just modified the way the .nwctxt file is offered. Instead of popping the download dialog immediately, which can be confusing for some users and may also be blocked by Internet Explorer 7 and 8, you will be given a link to click to download the file. IE likes to be clicked on.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
Nicolas,
[...]

For example - If the xml says "<part-name>Sop</part-name>" would it be reasonable to say that this should become the "Staff Name" and "<part-abbreviation>Sop</part-abbreviation>"  become the label and/or abbreviation ?

Also, is it your intention to maintain split direction chords on two different layered staves? Or may there in future be an option to create split direction chords on one staff?

[...]

v2.0.5 now handles part-name, part-name-display and part-abbreviation.

For split direction chords, the converter has to take what's in the MusicXML file. In MusicXML, each staff can have an unlimited number of voices (though most software support up to 4). A chord can be a single element with multiple notes, or several notes with a different voice each.

NWC staff supports a maximum of two voices, and sometimes only one (for instance, you can't represent v1: ♪♩ and v2: ♩♪ in a single NWC staff, or split chord CE;BD). So translating from MusicXML to NWC must be through multiple layered staves. Doing any further processing such as combining split direction chords on a single staff would require the converter to "understand" the music, calculate the timings, evaluate the limitations of NWC, etc.

To be efficient, the converter must be "dumb". It reads a MusicXML element, it pushes it in the corresponding NWC staff. No decision to take. The only place where it has to display a bit of intelligence is for lyrics alignment, and you know it's not perfect at all.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #33 –
v2.1 features support for compressed MusicXML (*.mxl) files you can find here and there on several music websites.

And a tremendous improvement in lyrics alignment with the correct note. I just figured out a much simpler way to do it, and the result is almost perfect!

I know a few rare cases where alignment will still be incorrect, but in most situation that'll only be a matter of adding or removing a single _ out of a lyric line.

https://www.niversoft.com/products/xml2nwc/

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #34 –
Thanks Nicolas,

Sounds like some exellent improvements.

Further testing later.


Richard
Rich.
 

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #35 –
Thanks for this Nicholas.  Your on-line Niversoft works very well.

I recently scanned 2 pdf choral files with Photoscore Ultimate ----> XML and then----> nwc via Niversoft, and found that the notation was perfect. 

However there were some errors in the lyrics which I laboriously corrected, and initially I was a bit disappointed, but to check on the performane of Niversoft, I also sent the Photoscore files to Sibelius and found an identical set of errors!   So the faults were with Photoscore, not with Niversoft.

The only remaining small problem in my case was with text objects which Niversoft tried to convert to extra lyric lines.  I imagine this would be rather hard to avoid, and is easily repaired.

In the above case I foolishly used a scanning resolution of 400dpi, but my past experience with Photoscore has been that when scanning pdf scores 600 dpi seems to be necessary to achieve best results. 

Thanks again for an excellent converter.

Bill Denholm.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #36 –
Thanks for your comments.

When you see text that should have been a text object but instead is inserted as an extra lyric line, the issue comes from the scanning process, where the optical character recognition engine isn't always able to decide whether the text it found is a lyric line or not.

The MusicXML to NWC converter will not create new lyric lines out of text objects. The text objects were already included as lyric lines in the MusicXML file.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #37 –
Thanks Nicholas, I made the site a favorite. I use the converter quite often and can confirm that the downloadable version works also with W-8.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #38 –
Thanks for your comment!

And you will all be happy to learn that I'm working on the nwc->musicxml conversion code, it's going quite well and should be released soon, as soon as I have time to do extensive tests and polish the latest details!

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #39 –
Quote from: brado –
I use the converter quite often and can confirm that the downloadable version works also with W-8.

Downloadable version ? Could not find that. 

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #40 –
He's talking about the old converter, which is not supported or available anymore.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #41 –
The reverse converter is ready, so the whole product has been renamed MusicXML ↔ NoteWorthy converter.
This is work in progress, but it's good enough to be used.

Note that matching voices from NWC to MusicXML is very tough, and impossible in some situations. NWC scores with split-direction chords will always have the wrong voice for several of the notes which aren't in a split-direction chord. This also means there will be dangling slurs and ties. For instance, the following pattern will always have a dangling tie:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0^
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th|Pos2:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

The converter is still available at https://www.niversoft.com/products/xml2nwc/

I also added support for fermatas and fixed a few other xml to nwc conversion issues.

Nicolas

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #42 –
Quote from: niver –
the following pattern will always have a dangling tie:
But this converts correctly:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:0^
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th|Pos2:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
BTW, I'm using IE8 and downloading went smoothly.
Registered user since 1996

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
But this converts correctly:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:0^
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th|Pos2:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Yeah, the example was too simple. Still, there is dangling ties and extra slurs on complex scores.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #44 –
Quote from: melismata –
Downloadable version ? Could not find that. 

I am one of the lucky people who downloaded it before it was taken of the site.
But I will use te new version certainly.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #45 –
Due to popular demand by people recognizing the usefulness of the online converter but, in some situations, needing a converter when out of reach of any public network, I'm going to post here, once, the latest version of the old, unsupported .Net converter, which have limited lyrics support (1 line, usually misaligned), no fermata and a few other minor issues, and uses a fragile keyboard messages sending methods to insert the data in NWC which could break with each new NWC release.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #46 –
Thank you.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #47 –
I scanned a hymn using SharpEye 2.68, exported it to a .xml file and then created a .nwctxt file using the Niversoft MusicXML ↔ NoteWorthy converter. I am unable to edit the hymn lyrics to get them spaced to match the notes correctly.

Any suggestions?

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #48 –
The converter produces layered staff. It's possible the staff you selected in NWC does not contains the lyrics. Disable "Layering in Edit Mode" in NWC View menu and you'll see where the lyrics are.

Re: MusicXML to Noteworthy converter

Reply #49 –
You are correct. "Layering in Edit Mode" was turned on. Thank You!