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Topic: Sibelius, alas! (Read 14999 times) previous topic - next topic

Sibelius, alas!

I have been a registered user of Noteworthy Composer for the past 10 or 12 years, but am new to this bulletin board. I use Noteworthy to write arrangements for a wind quartet and to transpose bassoon parts for my rather unusual favourite instrument, a basset horn in F.
I have just enrolled on a one-year music theory course, which requires me to use Sibelius Student to submit work. After a couple of weeks fiddling with Sibelius, I can only say that I appreciate Noteworthy more than ever. It is so much easier and intuitive to use, I can print out parts and I can get scores to look exactly the way I want them without hassle.
Then it occurred to me that I could continue to use Noteworthy for my composition work provided I could transfer scores to Sibelius for submission to my tutor. My first thought was to export to MIDI then import the file into Sibelius. I've experimented, but the result is not very satisfactory.
Could anyone suggest ways or midi setttings that would facilitate this procedure? Or is there a better way of transferring work to Sibelus, perhaps by using XML as a medium?
I'm open to all ideas, and thanks.
  


Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #2
I'm not sure when it was introduced, but NWC now allows files to be exported in NWCText format, and those can be converted to XML on  Nicolas Froment's webpage at http://nwc2musicxml.appspot.com/   (caveat - I haven't tried it).

Recordare's translation service looks promising, but "For translations between Finale and Sibelius, prices start at $2 per page with a minimum of $20 per file. Translation and preservation from older and less common formats will cost more."  Ouch! - particularly if you're going to have to translate lots of files this year.

An older discussion may assist you as well:  https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6520.0 and there may be something more recent.  The program referred to, written by James Lee, can be found at http://sites.google.com/site/juria90/nwc and I think it may be freeware. Again, I haven't tried it.  Thhere's a note on the page that says it works with NWC 2 now.  

You could, of course, tell your prof you prefer NWC over Sibelius, and ask that s/he licence a copy - it's certainly cheap enough for their budget - so the prof can review your work with the software it was created with.

Edit: The Recordare site reminds us:
NoteWorthy Composer is an inexpensive music composition and notation application for Windows. Several third-party developers have built programs to add MusicXML translation. Niversoft's mxml2nwcc program translates MusicXML files to NoteWorthy Composer Clip 2.0 format. James Lee's nwc2xml program translates NoteWorthy Composer 1.5x, 1.7x, and 2.x files to MusicXML files. Nicolas Froment has created a web-based NoteWorthy text file to MusicXML converter for nwctxt files created by NoteWorthy Composer 2.

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #3
Let's hope that NWC3 will include native MusicXML import and export.

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #4
Let's hope that NWC3 will include native MusicXML import and export.
Why? It seems to me that NWC is making its language publicly available via nwctxt. Translation can be left to others.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #5
Let's hope that NWC3 will include native MusicXML import and export.
Why?...
Because, as I understand it, MusicXML already is standardised (or in the process to be)
It would give direct access to Input/Output for many other music programs, without the need for a third party to provide the Import/Export facilities for NWC.
As an example of what can be provided
(and which might be considered somewhat "over the top"), see MuseScore.
 

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #6
Quote
Translation can be left to others.

Following that line of thinking, MIDI too could be...

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #7
Midi? Lacks far too much.
(Hairpins for one.)

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #8
My point was: following that line of thinking, MIDI import & export too could be left to others!

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #9
Following that line of thinking, MIDI too could be...
Without the ability to read MIDI, NWC could not be able to use a MIDI keyboard for input. Without the ability to write MIDI, there would be no sound. Since these functions are a necessary part of NoteWorthy, it makes sense to import and export them. NoteWorthy uses EMF for visual output, so it makes sense to export it (as it does via 'Copy Special' and 'Print Preview->Copy->File').

None of that can be said of MusicXML. When keyboards generate MusicXML and synths use MusicXML to produce sound, there might be a need for NoteWorthy to read and write it.

IMO, MusicXML is more like abc, niff and MusiXTeX.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #10
IMO, MusicXML is more like abc, niff and MusiXTeX.

I don't think so. All of those have specialized uses (e.g., abc was created and is being updated and maintained to provide a method of transmitting music through newsgroups and other text-only forums). MusicXML, OTOH, was designed and is being updated and maintained specifically to be a common language among music notation programs. I think NWC should support it. Not to do so would be like having its own sound-generation language instead of MIDI - to use a comparison that's already come up.

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #11
Quote
Without the ability to read MIDI, NWC could not be able to use a MIDI keyboard for input

Nope.
SMF (standard MIDI file) is a thing, real time MIDI signals is another.
Many first (and second!) generation keyboard could generate MIDI events and receive MIDI command but could not read MIDI files.
Try sending verbatim byte by byte a MIDI file to a keyboard...

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #12
SMF (standard MIDI file) is a thing, real time MIDI signals is another.
True. They only share about 95% of the routines. I suspect that if they were both the same thing, they wouldn't need different names. [/sarcasm]

Try sending verbatim byte by byte a MIDI file to a keyboard...
Less delta times, the byte sequence from a Type 0 file is about 99% the same as a real time stream. Of course, as they say: "Timing is everything."
Registered user since 1996

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #13
A little while ago, there was information given on the forum that there would soon be a new interface.
At that time, I got very excited because I really thought it was going to be a music xml interface. It turned out to be a virtual keyboard interface. Good as the virtual keyboard is, I was really disappointed. I would make much more use of a music xml interface. (I appreciate that others think differently).

Music xml perhaps is, or is going to be the common music language between notation editors (Western style music). NoteWorthy has its own language, and very good it is too. It's just a shame that NoteWorthy is a monoglot. (Well I suppose you could call it a polyglot if you count midi, but midi just doesn't have the full language capabilities). 

You only have to look at how many music software companies have built the music xml language into their product, or are about to ( http://www.recordare.com/musicxml/community/software) to appreciate that something worthwhile is happening here.
You will note on that page that there is a line saying that NoteWorthy Composer is with beta prototype music xml. But click on the arrow to get the true picture. It says  "Several third-party developers have built programs to add MusicXML translation." and goes on to talk about Niversoft (Nicolas Hatier), James Lee and Nicolas Froment.  Nicolas Froment in fact has a free NoteWorthy licence in order that he can develop a nwctxt to music xml program under the GNU banner. Given that, it would seem that there is litle chance of music xml being native within NoteWorthy - But you never know with NoteWorthy. The development paths and plans nearly always stay private.

What a shame none of these enterprising people have developed a two way interface.  Each product is in some stage of development, some of them look like they may not go any further. It would be even better if such a product was being developed by someone here in this forum.

For me, I would value a NoteWorthy music XML interface for the ability it would give to open up all of those music files from other notation products. Like having a super sized Scriptorium. Not all appreciate such things, but many do.

I just hope that NoteWorthy doesn't get left behind with all of those other music products encorporating music xml, and recognising the music xml initiative.
Rich.

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #14
Thanks, Rich. If your most recent post had a "like" button (like Facebook's), I would click it.


Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #16
Quote
I would make much more use of a music xml interface.

Not only "would make," but "make," in my case.  I use XML often - I have a huge number of music files created in another program that I can use Finale Notepad to create XML with, which I import to NWC using mxml2nwcc.exe so I can work on them prior to printing. Midi doesn't import what I need.

I also send files to others sometimes, and they don't use NWC.  Exporting to XML is very desirable.  

If MusicXML is becoming the standard for exchanging files, I'd like to see it as a native feature of NWC one day.  More than I want to see the new MMR but not more than I want to see improvements to slurs and line drawing capablilities.

Kudos to Rich for articulating the need so well.

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #17
Kudos to Rich for articulating the need so well.

Like!

I learned a lot about parsing when I worked on the abcnwc webpage last year, I'll try to see what is involved in working with the uncompressed version.
Since 1998

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #18
Rich, a big thank you!
You have so kindly said what I intended, but could not articulate.

 

Re: Sibelius, alas!

Reply #19
I'm a bit late getting into this discussion, but I heartily agree with Rich.

Getting back to Basset's original query, I frequently need to convert nwc to Sibelius.  It can be done reasonably accurately by "printing" the nwc file as a PDF, then "scanning" the pdf with Photoscore Ultimate and transferring to Sibelius.  You need to have Photoscore Ultimate with your copy of Sibelius and you usually end up with quite a few subtle errors (particularly in lyrics and dotted notes) to correct, but generally it is easier than using MIDI as an intermediate.  Photoscore Lite (the default version with Sibelius) is not up to the task.