Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.) (Read 10979 times) previous topic - next topic

How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

My heading says it all.  I started to put a question here, then realized what I did wrong.  Since I'd written out half my apparent problem already, I thought it would be worth fleshing out so others would know how not to screw up. 

The background:
I volunteered to transpose a handwritten Baritone Bass Clef part to Baritone Treble Clef (for some reason, baritone players usually prefer either b.c. or t.c. parts, and won't usually change over).  The bass clef part is untransposed, but Baritone T.C. is always transposed a major ninth (like a tenor sax or bass clarinet).  (If "transposing instruments" confuse you, your explanation is here: http://cnx.org/content/m10672/latest/).

So, I photographed the chart, converted the image to TIFF, used Sharpeye to create xml, used XML2NWC to import that into NWC2, and carefully edited out the errors and artifacts.  I did not edit out the various repeated key signatures and clefs Sharpeye copied from the beginning of each line (Sharpeye reproduces what it sees).  At this point, I had an accurate bass clef part in concert pitch but it had the extra clef and key data. 

What I did:
1.  I copied the bass clef part to a new staff, so if something went wrong I wouldn't have to start over.
2.  Highlighted all the notes in the new staff, down-arrowed 12 times, changed the bass clef to treble clef.  Now I had the same part in concert pitch in treble clef.
3.  Transposed 14 semitones to get the major ninth.  This is always in two steps, +12 then +2 due to limits in the transpose function. 
4.  Since I noticed a lot of double sharps, which I seldom encounter in transposing, I used the audit enharmonic spelling function.

My observations:
Since that didn't eliminate the double sharps I started looking for each one (there is no convenient way to find them in the Find function) .  In measures 19 and 20:
i.  Bass clef 3rd space E flat accidental transposed to treble clef first space F flat - should be F natural. 
ii. Bass clef 2nd space C sharp accidental transposed to treble clef D double-sharp below the staff - should have been D sharp. 
iii. Bass clef 2nd line B natural accidental transposed to treble clef C natural - should be C sharp. 
iv. I figure there are at least 50 and maybe 100 mistakes like this.  Very unusual for NWC2!  And not NWC2's fault.  My error.

Why did this happen?
Simple.  I didn't remove the extra clefs.  When I changed the bass clef to the treble clef, I just did the one at the beginning of the system, having forgotten the bass clef showed up elsewhere in the score.  The inconsistent error in i above was because this extra data was placed between the first and second occurrence of one particular accidental.  When I was seeing what I thought was a treble clef note, it was a bass clef one.

The solution?
I copied the original bass clef to a third staff, removed the extra bass clef and key signature data, then repeated steps 1 and 2 above.  The problem is gone.

I hope this "lesson learned" will save someone a couple of hours, down the road.

Re: How to find double sharps

Reply #1 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
My observations:
Since that didn't eliminate the double sharps I started looking for each one (there is no convenient way to find them in the Find function).
Use the Find function with:  |Pos:x
Use:  |Dur*x if you have chords. This will also find x-head notes.

Use |Pos*x if you have chords. Unfortunately, this will also find x-head notes and objects placed: AtNextNote.

A good test is the piano staves of the sample file: GriegPiano.nwc
Registered user since 1996

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #2 –
Thanks, Rick.  I didn't think of that.  Works well in my test right now.

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #3 –
G'day David,
Quote from: David Palmquist –
What I did:
1.  I copied the bass clef part to a new staff, so if something went wrong I wouldn't have to start over.
2.  Highlighted all the notes in the new staff, down-arrowed 12 times, changed the bass clef to treble clef.  Now I had the same part in concert pitch in treble clef.
3.  Transposed 14 semitones to get the major ninth.  This is always in two steps, +12 then +2 due to limits in the transpose function. 
4.  Since I noticed a lot of double sharps, which I seldom encounter in transposing, I used the audit enharmonic spelling function.

I would have only downarrowed 5 times - puts you an ocatve up WRT concert, but the right place WRT a Baritone/Euphonium/Trombone part being moved to treble clef.  Then you only need to transpose up 2 semitones...

As for the clef changes...  Global_Mod would've been my solution:
Clef,Type==Bass Type=Treble

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
As for the clef changes...  Global_Mod would've been my solution:
Clef,Type==Bass Type=Treble
not very useful. You need to delete the redundant Clefs, not change them.

Edit->Find->By Category->Clef Data
Would be my first choice for this kind of fixup.

David is only working with one staff. Even if you are a fast typist and get the Global Mod right the first time, I think that F3 delete, repeated as needed would be faster.
Registered user since 1996

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #5 –
G'day Rick,
Quote from: Rick G. –
not very useful. You need to delete the redundant Clefs, not change them.

Edit->Find->By Category->Clef Data
Would be my first choice for this kind of fixup.

OK:
Clef,Type==Bass DELETE

For only a few clefs it's probably a bit academic as it depends on what method one is more used to and thus fastest at.  For more than a few, I reckon the Global_Mod solution would come into its own.

For myself, I've never really used the find function and so it isn't my first thought when looking for a solution to this kind of problem.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #6 –
For me the Find works well, I just didn't think about modifying the search string.

Out of curiousity, while I was indeed just working on one staff, I do transpose trombone parts in big band scores for french horn.

Let's say I have trombone 1 open and use the Global Mod on it.  Meanwhile, trombones 2 and 3 and the bass are not selected in Page Setup.  If I use global modification, will that affect the staffs that are not selected?



Re: How to use Global Modification (GlobalMod)

Reply #7 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
If I use global modification, will that affect the staffs that are not selected?
No. GlobalMod is a User Tool.
User Tools can only modify the current selection. This is, at most, one staff (the current staff).
If no objects are selected, the User Tool receives, and can modify, the entire current staff.
If only part of the staff is selected, the unselected portion(s) will not be modified.

A staff that does not have its 'Contents box' checked in Page Setup cannot be the current staff and is safe from alteration by a User Tool.
Registered user since 1996

Re: How to screw up a transposition (changing Baritone B.C. to Baritone T.C.)

Reply #8 –
thanks

Re: How to use Global Modification (GlobalMod)

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
User Tools can only modify the current selection. This is, at most, one staff (the current staff).
If no objects are selected, the User Tool receives, and can modify, the entire current staff.
If only part of the staff is selected, the unselected portion(s) will not be modified.
Is there any way for a user tool to do all staves at once if it has been saved as a nwctxt file?  It might have to be an app which runs outside of NWC2.
Since 1998

Re: How to use Global Modification (GlobalMod)

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
Is there any way for a user tool to do all staves at once if it has been saved as a nwctxt file?
No. A User Tool cannot modify anything in the current song that is outside of the current staff's selection.

Quote from: Warren Porter –
It might have to be an app which runs outside of NWC2.
If it runs outside NWC2, it would not be a User Tool.

IMO, futher discussion of this is best done in the User Tools Forum.
Registered user since 1996