Tremolo and Note Value.

Topic: Tremolo and Note Value. (Read 6751 times) previous topic - next topic

Tremolo and Note Value.

2018-02-26 02:42 pm

On a published score, tremolo was written with two quarter notes with the tremolo sign between them; the tremolo occupying 1 quarter beat. When I duplicated that on the composer, of course the two quarter notes were each counted and now occupied 2 quarter beats.
In the end I just wrote out the tremolo with 8, 32 notes. The other choice was to use 2 eights with the tremolo sign between them, if I was not concerned about "hearing" tremolo on playback. My question is... How can I place 2 quarter notes on the staff with a tremolo sign between them and have them only count as a single quarter beat... just for appearance sake. Grace notes seem not to be a problem.
thx

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #1 – 2018-02-26 04:16 pm

Make two rest chords (quarter notes with eighth note rests). Mute the two rest chords. You can also select to hide the rest if you like (Select the rest chord, hold down ALT and press enter - then select the rest chord tab - there is an option there to show the rest. Untick it to hide the rest.
Now use Mike Shawaluk's Tremolo object. Insert it inbetween the two rest chords.
When setting up the user object , you can select 1,2,3 or 4 beams, as well as selecting triplet playback if you need that.
Don't forget to select "Play Notes". Even though you muted the rest chords, the Tremolo will play as a tremolo if you select this.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #2 – 2018-02-26 05:54 pm

Here is an even easier version of Rich's instructions. As of 2.75a, the Tremolo.ms object has a built in user tool that makes it easier to create tremolos.

Insert the notes as regular notes. Then highlight them, right-click on the highlighted section and choose "User Tool..." From the popup that appears, choose the .Plugins group on the left, and choose "Tremolo.ms: Apply" under Available Commands, and click Run. You'll be prompted for the number of beams, then click OK. Doing this will insert the object between the notes and convert them to muted Rest Chords.

If you need to change the number of beams or make any other changes, you can select the Tremolo.ms object and change its properties as per Rich's instructions.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #3 – 2018-03-02 02:32 am

I was revisiting a piece with some tremelo and thought I would experiment. It looks good but is a lot faster than nearby measures where it is still written out. Am I missing something?

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:E
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:#-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:#-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted,HideRest|Dur2:Half,Dotted,Accent|Pos2:#4
|User|Tremolo.ms|Pos:0|Beams:2|TripletPlayback:Y
|RestChord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted,HideRest|Dur2:Half,Dotted|Pos2:6
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:#4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:#4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #4 – 2018-03-02 02:38 am

Never mind, I think?!? Just killed TripletPlayback and it sounded fine. Didn't notice that until I saw the nwctxt file.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #5 – 2018-03-02 01:41 pm

Yes, turning off TripletPlayback fixes it. I'm not an expert on tremolo playback, but when I was creating the object, @Richard Woodroffe was my main tester, and he found situations when the object should be playing more notes (i.e. faster). In his test scores, it seemed to be needed whenever the notes were dotted. Therefore, in my user tool, I also turn on TripletPlayback whenever the source notes are dotted. However, for your score, it seems to play correctly without triplet playback.

There might also some dependency on the time signature. In your snippet, there is not a signature present, although it looks like it should be 3/4 or 6/8.

As you noted, it's easy enough to turn triplet playback off, but I could add an option to the user tool interface to allow the user to specify triplet behavior.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #6 – 2018-03-02 02:31 pm

Quote from: Mike Shawaluk – 2018-03-02 01:41 pm

he found situations when the object should be playing more notes (i.e. faster). In his test scores, it seemed to be needed whenever the notes were dotted.

ie. you require a tremolo that plays triplets for the duration of the tremolo span - but it's not always when you encounter a dot ! I don't think triplet playback should be switched on automatically by a user tool just because a dotted note is encountered. (The user tool wasn't available when we were testing. If it had been, I wouldn't have suggested that this was an automatic switch on).

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #7 – 2018-03-02 03:32 pm

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2018-03-02 02:31 pm

ie. you require a tremolo that plays triplets for the duration of the tremolo span - but it's not always when you encounter a dot ! I don't think triplet playback should be switched on automatically by a user tool just because a dotted note is encountered. (The user tool wasn't available when we were testing. If it had been, I wouldn't have suggested that this was an automatic switch on).

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure why I included that logic in the user tool, but it is easy to remove. I'll post an updated Tremolo.ms to fix this (interestingly, the embedded tool for TremoloSingle.ms doesn't include this logic, although that object also has a TripletPlayback option).

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #8 – 2018-03-02 03:54 pm

Since we're talking about tremolos, I'm going to piggy-back this issue on here. I've run into a problem with the TremoloSingle object. I've marked a tremolo on an F6 in the violin part of a piano quartet. As per Elaine Gould, I've moved the tremolo marks down into the staff - only they won't go all the way down. The vertical offset needs at least 5.5, which the object flags as out of range. I think I understand why you kept the range down - if there are just ten offset positions, you can stay within a single decimal digit - but it's too limiting in this circumstance. Could you please do an update? (Will the language accept a hex value there? That would allow an offset of up to 8, which should take care of any circumstance.)

Bill

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #9 – 2018-03-02 04:05 pm

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2018-03-02 03:54 pm

I've marked a tremolo on an F6 in the violin part of a piano quartet.

Seems fine to me:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:11|Opts:Muted
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #10 – 2018-03-02 04:29 pm

Hello Bill,

I will take your word on the need for larger offset values. The limits of ± 5 were somewhat arbitrary, and I can extend them easily. Also, note that it does not have to be an integer value. By default, it will increment/decrement by 0.5, but you can set it to an arbitrary fractional value as needed.

What would you like the offset value range to be? ± 10?

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #11 – 2018-03-02 04:55 pm

10 would probably do it. That should allow tremolos up through C7, and I have serious doubts that anyone has ever or will ever write a violin part that goes higher than that - although I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #12 – 2018-03-02 04:57 pm

Just to be clear, violinists (and flautists, whom this will also be useful for) strongly prefer reading ledger lines to 8va notation - at least, in my experience. That's why the greater offsets are necessary.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #13 – 2018-03-02 05:26 pm

I would comment also that leger lines below the staff are equally important to clarinetists (3 leger lines and a space) and bass clarinetists (4 leger lines and a space).

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #14 – 2018-03-02 05:36 pm

The Tremolo.ms and TremoloSingle.ms objects have been updated, per the discussion in this thread.

Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions.

Mike

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #15 – 2018-03-02 05:41 pm

Thanks, Mike - works perfectly. Score now looks correct.

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #16 – 2018-03-03 04:11 am

Can it help the following (from same piece as previous post)?

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:16th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Tremolo and Note Value.

Reply #17 – 2018-03-03 10:46 am

The following uses single note tremolos, which are a little bit less cluttered than the original notes. However, I'm not enough of a musical expert to know if this is correct notational usage. It might look better unbeamed.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:16th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"|Group:"Standard"
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Note|Dur:8th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,Muted
|Bar
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Note|Dur:8th,Accent|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-9,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam,Muted
|User|TremoloSingle.ms|Pos:0|Beams:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposer-End