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vertical default cursor placement

I would like to have  the option to preset the page up/down command so that the cursor will land on a different place than the middle of the pentagram.
This would save much time when entering fingerings for example: in this case I'd like the page up/down command to land on the highest note of the staff so as to speed up the text insertion, as the vertical adjustment won't be needed so much.
The page up/down command could be even more versatile when working on one staff only: in this case the page up command could shift the cursor to the highest written note and the page down to the lowest one.
  All the best
Leon

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #1 –
Leon,
<Ctrl+UpArrow/DnArrow> will move the cursor an octave at a time - I think this will do what you're looking for within the staff. 

As for maintaining relative position using <PgUp/PgDn>, I have no objection provided it's optional.  Although, perhaps <Ctrl+PgUp/PgDn> could be used to do this as I think that combination is available.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #2 –
Lawrie,
thanks for your answer. Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough:
what I'd like NWC to do is to chase the highest (or lowest) note of the staff, while using the pg. up/down, or perhaps another single key for this matter. I though of pg. up/down as a convenient option because I find myself shifting quite often from one staf to another while inserting fingerings.
Obviously the octave shift will only help in the particular case when the written note is an octave higher of lower than the middle of the pentagram.
Besides being more economical in text entering I think that note chasing could present some editing advantage too.

I tried ctrl. pg up/down, but the cursor landed as usual on the middle of the pentagram.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #3 –
I can see some value in this idea except that I would not have it position to the previous highest or lowest note of the staff moved to, I would have it align with the previous note entered to the left of the new insertion point. This is much more likely to be closer to the next intended note than the center line where the page up/down currently lands.

This perhaps could be one of the effects of selecting smart insertion point, for which I do not see as having that much value (for me - YMMV) at the moment. (NB Smart Insertion Point, not Smart Properties Insert)

Rich.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #4 –
This might (or might not) be a place for a user tool.  After selecting the note or chord and responding to a prompt for which finger, a tool could create the text for you.  It might be too much trouble to set up, though. (select note, Alt/F8, select tool, respond to prompt, enter)  It would be a little easier after it was done once since "Repeat Last User Tool" would be an option.
Since 1998

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #5 –
I find myself adding texts all the time above the stave in the fingering position, in order to make notes for myself. In the QwikType User Tool (attached as qwiktext.zip in https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=8312.0 post #26), it allows the user to enter for example, "\v 4a, 5a, 6a, 7a" as hexadecimal volume numbers for volume entities to be inserted in front of the following 4 notes, so that each note has a different volume. If it's of any help, I will add in a command e.g. "\/ 1, 2, 3, 4" which will for example add the texts 1, 2, 3, 4 in the fingering position in front of the following 4 notes, so that each note has a finger number.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #6 –
Quote from: LEON –
I would like to have  the option to preset the page up/down command so that the cursor will land on a different place than the middle of the pentagram.
I'm assuming that 'pentagram' means 'staff'.
If the vertical posititon cursor does not not change to the middle of the destination staff, it can lie outside the staff or even worse, outside the window. This becomes very confusing.

In theory, it seems useful to be able to go to a different staff and keep the positition. In practice, it results in blind editing as the cursor could disappear or look like it was on an unselected staff.

IMO, it would not be useful for the position to be kept if it could be done so without disappearing or going outside the staff boundaries. That would introduce its own uncertainties ...
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #7 –
 Rick,
I was not suggesting that the insertion point should remenber the prevous staff position, but that it will chase the highest or lowest not in the next staff. So it would be always visible, allowing you to insert fingerings in a faster way. It could be done by another shortcut key, for this matter.  
Of course it is one of many possible options, and in a different working context I myself may well prefer another, not to speak of somebody else: I usually write down the notes and leave the text for later at what you may call a sort of editing mode. For fingerings I'd like to have a shortcut key that sends the cursor to the next note and chases its height. For dynamics insertions I'd like to preset a perhaps different shortcut key in a different way then the one I suggested. For tempi in another. For tempi var. in another. And I'd like to be able to tell NWC to insert them all smartly, so as to avoid collision with notes, so that it will be automatical and flexible at the same time. At the moment it's all manual, which is fine in some cases, perhaps in most cases, but in many others it may well make work become tedious.
So I am not saying something should be erased from the program, but that some options should be added. Hope we can agree on this.  
I really think commands in general should be allowed to be predetermined by the user in a flexible way so that they'll accomodate in a more friendly way to one's different needs/preferences. I'd like to hear more calls in this direction.
 

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #8 –
Quote from: LEON –
I was not suggesting that the insertion point should remember the prevous staff position 
It is simply one example of "the cursor landing in a different place than the middle of the pentagram."  I chose it since it was tried in one of the beta versions and rejected because of the confusion it created.

Quote from: LEON –
it will chase the highest or lowest not in the next staff. So it would be always visible
I disagree. Notes at the cursor on the selected staff are sometimes outside the visible window and often intrude into the boundaries of another staff. Either will cause confusion if the cursor chases the note position.

Quote from: LEON –
For fingerings I'd like to have a shortcut key that sends the cursor to the next note and chases its height. For dynamics insertions I'd like to preset a perhaps different shortcut key in a different way then the one I suggested. For tempi in another. For tempi var. in another.
This seems like an option for the Find Command. A checkbox to position the cursor to that of the found object. Might be useful. Since there would always be a single object selected, the actual cursor occasionally disappearing or moving out of the staff's boundaries wouldn't be so confusing.

Quote from: LEON –
And I'd like to be able to tell NWC to insert them all smartly
"Smart Properties Insert" attempts this. Maybe it could be smarter. I agree with all members of this forum who have advised other users to turn it off.

Quote from: LEON –
So I am not saying something should be erased from the program
I did not think you were. I'm sorry if you inferred that from my comments.

Quote from: LEON –
but that some options should be added. Hope we can agree on this.
We can. I think it safe to assume that just about everyone thinks that "some options should be added." We just disagree as to which options are important enough to delay that blessed day when Noteworthy does anything to improve slurs.

Quote from: LEON –
I really think commands in general should be allowed to be predetermined by the user in a flexible way so that they'll accomodate in a more friendly way to one's different needs/preferences. I'd like to hear more calls in this direction.
I call in that direction :)   I'd like to see user defined context menus...
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #9 –
Then I'll guess once the user defined will be fully operational the question of agreeing on disagreeing on this issue or another will become irrelevant, and this is really what stands behing my point: each will decide for himself what's the best way to go about things and it won't be anybody else's concern.

Comparing to the advantage of saving time the possibility that the insertion point would disappear is marginal for me , because the insertion point will always end on a note, and I can always see the notes that I write, also when I have multiple staves. Need only to arrange the spacing between staves ahead of time, but I do this anyway.
Perhaps the word "erase" was not fully appropriate. I'll try to explain what I meant by it: since you objected my proposition, I assumed that you thought it was meant to replace the existing state of things: obviously there is nothing to lose by having an extra option providing it does not "erase" the existing one, and there is no point of being against it.
Now I hear that you fear that its possible development could be at the expenses of slurs that you think more important. But how about having them both? Of course I don't know anything about computer programs, so it's very easy for me to make a wish. But working speed does matter, and I'd like to see moe empathy for this, even when there are other unfinished issues on the horizon.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #10 –
Could you attach a small sample of what you need to a message so we can see what your concern is?  In Tools -> Options -> Editor, what is checked that starts with Smart?
Since 1998

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #11 –
Quote from: LEON –
obviously there is nothing to lose by having an extra option providing it does not "erase" the existing one, and there is no point of being against it.
Guess again ...
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #12 –
Hi Lawry,
thanks for your answer/
Here is an example of what I have done: each time a number needs to be entered  I need to vertically align it so that it "chases" the note vertically. Lot of work just to enter a number because it's multiplied by the hundreds. I have checked and unchecked the smart properties insertion and as I guessed nothing happened.
If tehre is a way that the smart insertion can place the fingerings so that they will automatically appear by the note, I'd be glad to know.
Coming to think of it a user tool could come handy, if you think it's worth the effort of course.  

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"1"|Font:User1|Pos:12|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=8,Beam=First
|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Text|Text:"2"|Font:User1|Pos:9|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Text|Text:"1"|Font:User1|Pos:8|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=8,Beam=End
|Text|Text:"3"|Font:User1|Pos:7|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Text|Text:"2"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
 

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #13 –
Rick,
thanks for the link to the dictionary, it's always good to learn someting new in a foreign language.

Quote from: RICK on Yesterday at 08:53 pm
I was not suggesting that the insertion point should remember the prevous staff position  
It is simply one example of "the cursor landing in a different place than the middle of the pentagram."  I chose it since it was tried in one of the beta versions and rejected because of the confusion it created.
Notes at the cursor on the selected staff are sometimes outside the visible window and often intrude into the boundaries of another staff. Either will cause confusion if the cursor chases the note position.

I don't understand. Why should the insertion point become invisible when it appears by a note? Are you not supposed to see the notes you are working with? And even if it does disappear, it will happen because you have chosen that option, so why would any one be confused by it after knowing that it can happen?

I think it safe to assume that just about everyone thinks that "some options should be added." We just disagree as to which options are important enough to delay that blessed day when Noteworthy does anything to improve slurs.

Ok, just my opinion.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #14 –
Quote from: LEON –
a user tool could come handy
Try this:
Code: (php) [Select · Download]
<?php
// rg_Finger.php ver 0.60; 
// Ref: http://my.noteworthysoftware.com/?topic=8343.0
// "<PROMPT:Fingering:=*>"
require_once('lib/nwc2clips.inc');
$objTxt = new NWC2ClipItem('|Text|Font:User1|Placement:AtNextNote');
$s = (isset($argv[1]))? $argv[1]: '';
$io = gzfile('php://stdin'); // allow compressed input, fwiw
$i = 0;
foreach(preg_grep('/^\|Note\|/', $io) as $k=>$ln) {
	if (!isset($s[$i])) break;	
	$o = new NWC2ClipItem($ln);
	$npp = new NWC2NotePitchPos($o->Opts['Pos']);
	$objTxt->Opts['Pos'] = $npp->Position + 3;
	$objTxt->Opts['Text'] = $s[$i++];
	$io[$k] = $objTxt->ReconstructClipText().PHP_EOL.$ln;
}
echo join($io);
if ($argv[$argc - 1] == '-t') exit(NWC2RC_REPORT);
?>
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #15 –
Quote from: LEON –
I don't understand. Why should the insertion point become invisible when it appears by a note?
Because the note itself is not visible in the window. You may work with notes close to the staff lines, but not everyone does. Flute parts use an ungodly number of leger lines as do left hand piano parts, especially when playing octaves.
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Because the note itself is not visible in the window.You may work with notes close to the staff lines, but not everyone does. Flute parts use an ungodly number of leger lines as do left hand piano parts, especially when playing octaves.

Not so. I do work with notes that have many leger lines, which is in fact characteristical to classical guitar writing.

In my experience if the upper and lower boundary are set accordingly to the presence of multiple leger lines notes, the notes will be always visible and well inside the window. And I need to do so in any case, otherwise I'll find yourself editing blindly and with a poor printing result, as notes will be too near or even collide with the adjacent staff/system notes.
Am I missing something? 

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #17 –
Me again.
Rick, my Pc does not recognize php. Is it possible for yo uto send your example in a different format?
thanks in advance

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #19 –
I open the php it in the user's tool in NWC paste what you sent then what?

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
I can see some value in this idea except that I would not have it position to the previous highest or lowest note of the staff moved to, I would have it align with the previous note entered to the left of the new insertion point. This is much more likely to be closer to the next intended note than the center line where the page up/down currently lands.

Hi Richard.
Yes it's a good option too. If I understood you right what you suggested would be particularly suitable if you wish to enter the fingering immediately after having entered a note. I usually insert the fingering after I have entered all notes, this is why I'd like to have a shortcut key that chases the notes recognizing their vertical position.
But my birthday is not due too soon, so I am probaly out of wishes at the moment... :-)

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #21 –
Quote from: LEON –
I open the php it in the user's tool in NWC paste what you sent then what?
NWC's Paste as New File Command doesn't work with PHP code. (an interesting idea, but alas, no)

I recently posted details on installing User Tools with some examples here:
Request for help to migrate user tools from NWC 2.1 to NWC 2.5.5
You may want to refer to the full topic, but for now I'll just crib a bit and tailor it to the code above.

You are offered two options, Select and Download. Choose: Download. your browser should issue a popup offering to save the file. Save it to your NWC Scripts folder. You may also want to rename it, just make sure that you keep the 'php' extension.

With the focus on NoteWorthy Composer, press Alt+F8
A User Tool popup will appear.
Press Alt+N for New...
Select what Group you want or create a new group.
Press Alt+R for Browse...
Select the file you downloaded and saved from above and Open it.
Name: will be filled out. You can change it or not.
Command: will be filled out for you, but you will need to add:
Quote
<PROMPT:Fingering:=*>
The default 'Input Type' and 'Options' will work with this tool.
Registered user since 1996

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #22 –
Hi LEON,
why not check out user tools on the Scriptorium?
http://nwc-scriptorium.org/nwc2scripts.html

In particular, there is a guide I wrote some time ago about how to invoke user tools (it will still be largely relevant even though there have been changes in NWC2.5x):
http://nwc-scriptorium.org/nwc2scripts/invocationinstructions.pdf
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical default cursor placement

Reply #23 –
I don't use the user tools often enough to be comfortable with them.  Maybe one day... But in the meantime, it occurs to me that using the Find feature would make things easier.  Step by step:

1.  Find the wrongly positioned number, copy it to your clipboard. (|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:0|Wide:N|Justify:Left|Placement:BestFit|Color:0|Visibility:Default)
2.  Go to the beginning of the staff, open the Find window, paste the number into it, and invoke the search.
3.  You will arrive at the wrongly positioned number again.  Fix it by using {shift & up-arrow} to move it to the desired height.
4.  Copy the now-correctly positioned number (|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Wide:N|Justify:Left|Placement:BestFit|Color:0|Visibility:Default) to your clipboard.
5.  Press F3 to move to the next wrongly positioned number (|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:0|Wide:N|Justify:Left|Placement:BestFit|Color:0|Visibility:Default)
(the same integer)
6.  Press Control-V to paste the clipboard number (|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User1|Pos:10|Wide:N|Justify:Left|Placement:BestFit|Color:0|Visibility:Default) over this newly found wrongly postioned number.
7.  Repeat step 5 until you've done all the fingerings that are represented by that integer.
8.  Repeat steps 1 to 7 for the next wrongly positioned number. And the next.  And the next...

While you'll have to do a lot of pasting, and you will have to do the exercise for each fingering (in your example, four times), it seems easier than learning to use a User Tool, and it will certainly be faster and more efficient than fixing each number one-by-one.