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Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Hello,

Yesterday I posted a message related to a song I am writing which includes a piano arpeggiato (1/32th duration notes). However the interference of the shorter notes piano arpeggiati makes the notes of the song line resulting as staccato.
Lawrie Pardy, yesterday, suggested me to attach an excerpt of the written song. What I am doing.
You will hear, as from the 7th beat, song notes will play as staccato. Of course, the dysfunction continues up to the end of the song.
Did anybody have to face this question and already solve it?
Thank you very much.
Raffaele D'arcangelo

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #1 –
G'day Raffaele,
I've played back your excerpt and it behaves exactly as I expect it to.  Perhaps the results you're getting has another cause...  Have you tried to play back on:
a) another computer?
b) using a different synth?

Have you tried one staff at a time <Shift+F5> ?

Have you tried muting staves to see which one(s) cause the problem?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #2 –
Lawrie may not get the problem, but I do.

For me, it appears to be something to do with the pedal down marking in Right hand piano in bar 6.

If you take this out, then the staccato doesn't happen.
If you leave it in, but put a pedal released mark at the end of the bar and then pedal down and realeased marks for the remaining bars, the staccato does not happen either.

Strange - may be a bit of a buggette relating to specific sound cards perhaps.


Rich.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #3 –
Hey Rich,
I tested with my XG softsynth...  What did you use?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #4 –
Straight forward Windows 7 laptop with default sound card. Sound set on Microsoft GS wavetable synth.
Sound card is Conexant.

(I didn't have my VST host switched on !)

Rich.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #5 –
Just tested with the M$ GS wavetable (this machine doesn't have VST host) and didn't get a problem there either.

I'm running XP which uses the older WDM architecture.  Vista/Win7 uses a new architecture and I wonder if thnis has something to do with it.

Raffaele, which version of Windows, synth and sound card are you using?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #6 –
The exported MIDI file is as follows:

Quote
Meas. 7:0:0 - Channel 1: Note On: F3, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:0:24 - Channel 1: Note On: F3, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:0:24 - Channel 1: Note On: B3, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:0:48 - Channel 1: Note On: B3, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:0:48 - Channel 1: Note On: D4, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:0:72 - Channel 1: Note On: D4, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:0:72 - Channel 1: Note On: F4, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:1:0 - Channel 1: Note On: F4, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:1:0 - Channel 1: Note On: B4, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:1:24 - Channel 1: Note On: B4, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:1:24 - Channel 1: Note On: D5, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:1:48 - Channel 1: Note On: D5, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:1:48 - Channel 1: Note On: F5, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:1:72 - Channel 1: Note On: F5, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:1:72 - Channel 1: Note On: B5, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:2:0 - Channel 1: Note On: B5, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:2:0 - Channel 1: Note On: D6, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:2:24 - Channel 1: Note On: D6, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:2:24 - Channel 1: Note On: F6, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:2:48 - Channel 1: Note On: F6, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:2:48 - Channel 1: Note On: B6, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:2:72 - Channel 1: Note On: B6, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:2:72 - Channel 1: Note On: D7, Velocity: 60
Meas. 7:3:0 - Channel 1: Note On: D7, Velocity: 0 = Off
Meas. 7:3:0 - Channel 1: Note On: F7, Velocity: 60

As far as I can see there is no reason to get a staccato.

Probably it's a matter of sound card (and/or soundfont).
I had a similar feeling in other cases with other voices.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #7 –
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
It is also possible that the use of the sustain pedal is creating more demand for "voices" than the sound card is capable of delivering. This would cause things like note drop outs, where the overall sustain of notes is shortened in order to meet the demand from new notes just starting to play.
The attachment has 143 notes sounding on ch1 while the Sustain Pedal is down. This will cause voice overflow on many synths. Some synths handle voice overflow better than others.

My solution would be to shorten the time that the Sustain Pedal is down.

If that is not acceptable, http://www.midi.org/techspecs/gmguide2.pdf, in the section: GM Voice Allocation - Overflow and Channel Priority gives some guidance on how to give more priority to the "choir" notes.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
If that is not acceptable, http://www.midi.org/techspecs/gmguide2.pdf, in the section: GM Voice Allocation - Overflow and Channel Priority gives some guidance on how to give more priority to the "choir" notes.

Amazed !!!!  I read this section and with (I must say) some degree of scepticism, I decided to change the midi channels to the suggested priority order.  I think it is fair to say that I was so discombobulated with the perfect results that I changed everything back again to make sure that it gave me back the staccato notes. It did !

I'm not sure which amazes me more - the fact that midi channels have a priority order (I had no idea), or that Rick had remembered reading this and knew where to find the reference (but I really should be getting used to Rick's memory).

For the record, in Raffaele's example nwc file, if you change the piano from channel 1 to channel 16 and the canto staves to channels 1 and 2, then everything (on my system) plays properly.

I am also glad this solution backs up my experimental findings mentioned in an earlier post, about either removing the ped markings or placing ped down/up on each bar. At least I know why this works now.

Thanks Rick.

 
Rich.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #9 –
Quote
makes the notes of the song line resulting as staccato

Silly me!
I completely misunderstood.
I was putting all my attention to the piano line.

Now the point is obvious :-) and indeed I met that condition before.

Of course this does not implies that I remembered the existence of the MIDI channel priorities... :-(

Thank you, Rick (as usual)!

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #10 –
Darn!

I'd like to hear the rest of the song, it starts so well.

I don't play piano so I have no thoughts about the staccato issue.  . 

I thought I would mention that the beamed notes should be in groups of three, since this is 12:8 time. That will be helpful for whoever reads the printed score.





 

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #11 –
FWIW, I took out both piano staves and still got staccato on the chorus parts.
Since 1998

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
FWIW, I took out both piano staves and still got staccato on the chorus parts.

If that was after playing with all staves and getting the staccato notes, then you need to delete the piano staves AND press f6 several times to reset the bits that need resetting !
Rich.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #13 –
I almost feel underprivileged - I simply do not get the problem on my notebook.

Thanks Rick for spotting the cause.  Like Rich said, I should be getting used to your amazing memory by now, but it never ceases to surprise.

FWIW, my Yam was set to 64 voice polyphony - which I've now reset to 128 where I normally have it - dunno when it got changed :(
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #14 –
Lawrie,

How do you play your coronet? Do you take it off  your head?

I play my cornet by blowing through the small end.
Carl Bangs
Fenwick Parva Press
Registered user since 1995

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #15 –
Hello everybody (sorry if I will not name every one in this post).
I would like to recognise the quick delay of answers and the interest of each member of our community I am happy to be part of.
Most of you have identifies different eventual causes. For ex. I do not use keyboards to write or listen my composition and my sound card is a banal ASUS notebook card! certainly not one of the best.
However I noticed Richard answer was very useful (of course I will need to manage a bit better with a professional sound card) because deleting the pedal mark, the song line works perfect.
So then, once again I express my sincere gratitude to each member who gave me their precious information.
Kind Regards
Raffaele
(www.lesmusiciens.eu)

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line (confusion)

Reply #16 –
sorry if I made confusion between Rick (who told me about the pedal) and Richard, who suggested me to change channels...
However thanks a lot again.
Raffaele.

Re: Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #17 –
G'day Carl,
Quote from: Carl Bangs –
Lawrie,

How do you play your coronet? Do you take it off  your head?

I play my cornet by blowing through the small end.
Not very well :) 
As crumpet/coronet players go, I'm pretty good on a 'bone.  ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Interference of piano Arpeggiato on the song line

Reply #18 –
Quote
my sound card is a banal ASUS notebook card!

If it's so, probably whatever you ear is software generated.
Use a good software and a good soundfont and things can be a lot better.

Search for soundfonts in this newsgroup: there is a lot of help about that.

P.S. Sarei curioso di sentirvi. Farete una tournée anche in Italia?

Ciao