From pan to embers... 16 years ago I don't know if that saying is used outside of Italy, but we use it to say "from bad to worse".The question is somehow the opposite of the one continuing to appear on this forum :-) and is a matter of MIDI, not strictly of NWC, but bear for me.I need to pan some instruments of the drum kit.The problem is that the pan command is unique for the whole channel 10.Easy way out: I put the percussions I need to pan in a channel at wish (<> 10), then I tell NWC to use the bank select command with the MSB = 127, LSB = 0 and patch at wish (MSB = 127 are the drum kits). At this point I can pan that channel as I like.Wow! It works perfectly... on a XG keyboard.When I try with the (GS?) sound card it's a mess.I could use the <Drums Setup Data Parameter Change> to pan the single percussion but, beside being a system exclusive message with all the problems of handling it in NWC generated file, it's supported only on XG keyboards. And I'm back at the starting point.I think to remember that General MIDI 2 allows up to 2 simultaneous percussion kits (channels 10 and 11) but how to exploit that?I think to remember too that General MIDI 2 (and GS) has the drum kits on MSB = 120, LSB = 0, but it doesn't seem to work.What can I do to stay, more or less, in the GM standard?Of course, beside: forget the pan... and get in the embers. ;-) Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #1 – 16 years ago You stated the issue yourself - it works in XG but not in GS (I assume you mean the computer's Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth?). Whether a particular bank select works or not depends entirely on the synth or soundcard or softsynth playing it back, not on the GM or GM2 standard. Synths simply ignore commands they cannot execute and make the most acceptable substitution within their limitations. You might have to save as 2 NWC files, one as yourmasterpieceXG.nwc with all the XG tricks and one as yourmasterpieceGM with all percussion tracks on MIDI CH 10 and no nice pans. If only all were so enlightened as to use Yamaha! Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #2 – 16 years ago Quote(I assume you mean the computer's Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth?)This one too, but also a Roland keyboard and a SBLive board (beside the before mentioned Yamaha keyboard).QuoteWhether a particular bank select works or not depends entirely on the synth or soundcard or softsynth playing it back, not on the GM or GM2 standard.Yes, of course, but if a synth is GM compliant then it must have all the standard patches in the right position and handle the standard controllers in the same way and the drum kit in the channel 10 and so on.I was hoping that, since many years have passed, GM2 synths with all its bonuses were widespread.Nominally, both Yamaha and Roland actively support it.In practice...QuoteSynths simply ignore commands they cannot execute and make the most acceptable substitution within their limitations.True for XG, false for GS.QuoteYou might have to save as 2 NWC files, one as yourmasterpieceXG.nwc with all the XG tricks and one as yourmasterpieceGM with all percussion tracks on MIDI CH 10 and no nice pans.That's exactly what I did. :-(QuoteIf only all were so enlightened as to use Yamaha! If only there were only one universal standard!Well, it is: GM; but it's old and limited.Then GM2 was born but... I start to think it's born dead.So we still have XG, GS, GMX etc. etc. Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #3 – 16 years ago On the 'net I found this:QuoteRoland GS Drum kitsThe drum kits were assigned their own bank, cc#0 (Bank Select MSB) 127, cc#32 (Bank Select LSB) 0, and were accessible on any channel (but could not span more than two channels), with 9 different kits in totalQuoteGM2's introduction of Key-Based Instrument Controllers is a major step forward in drum programming. Key-based refers to how percussion is mapped, with each MIDI note number triggering a different timbre, such as kick drum on C2 and snare on E2. GM2 lets you map certain controllers to correspond to individualkeys and therefore individual drum sounds. That enables composers to do things such as override the default pan positions of drum kit elements. The hi-hat, for example, can be panned all the way to the right instead of centered. Other controllers that can be adjusted per note number include Volume, Reverb Send Level, and Chorus Send Level.Having two channels for drums means you can change different channel-specific parameters, such as Volume and Pan, on different instruments. By moving a shaker or tambourine to channel 11 while keeping the rest of the drums on channel 10, you can create some movement by sweeping the shaker around the stereo field using good old controller 10 (Pan).That's exactly what I'm looking for, but I don't know how to exploit it. Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #4 – 16 years ago Hi FlurmyCertainly in the UK, "from pan to embers" would become "(jump) out of the frying pan into the fire". I think the same expression may be used in Australia/New Zeland, but I am not sure about North America. Can anyone enlighten me?Kind regards Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #5 – 16 years ago Quote from: BobPetty – 16 years agoI am not sure about North America. Can anyone enlighten me?Can't speak for an entire continent but "(jump) out of the frying pan into the fire" is common in the United States.More than just "from bad to worse", it connotes that the subject has taken some action (jumping) to cause the worsening situation. Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #6 – 16 years ago Here in New England the phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" is quite common.RegardsKeith Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #7 – 16 years ago Very common out on the Pacific coast of Canada too. Quote Selected
Re: From pan to embers... Reply #8 – 16 years ago So the pan... ehm, the pun was right! ;-) Quote Selected
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