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Topic: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system (Read 417 times) previous topic - next topic

Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

HI,
is there a way to force a certain number of measures to stay on a single system? Sometimes the spaces among notes are excessive and I would like to shrink them. The option "Increase spacing for longer notes" is not flexible enough. For instance I would like to shrink spaces as shown in this example so to have 3 measures in the first system
Thank you

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #1
Insert spacers between notes.
Please note that a spacer can be smaller than the standard space, so a spacer can also shrink.

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #2
Insert spacers between notes.
Please note that a spacer can be smaller than the standard space, so a spacer can also shrink.
but in that case I will have even more space between notes! I want to reduce spaces between notes so that, for example in the example I provided, first 3 measures will fit the first system (when score is printed)

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #3
but in that case I will have even more space between notes! I want to reduce spaces between notes so that, for example in the example I provided, first 3 measures will fit the first system (when score is printed)
Not true.  The spacer REDUCES space, as you add spacers the distance they use increases and will eventually be wider than you started with, but the first one(s) reduce space.  They are inserted with, wait for it, the Insert key.  Give it a try!
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #4
Thank you both for the trick, you are right! Anyway it would be a great feature to have the possibility to force the space between notes in an automatic way, without the need to insert all those spacers, for instance by selecting all the measures that one wants they fit into a single system.

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #5
Thank you both for the trick, you are right! Anyway it would be a great feature to have the possibility to force the space between notes in an automatic way, without the need to insert all those spacers, for instance by selecting all the measures that one wants they fit into a single system.
Not sure how much this will help, but I'm guessing you know how to force a system break?
a) highlight a barline and open its properties dialogue <Alt+Enter> and check the Force System Break box, OR
b) insert a Boundary change <]> and hit the "Force a new system" radio button.

Either way will enable you to define when a system (range) starts and stops.  Force a new system BEFORE you want to start the specified section, and the same at the end of the section.

If you turn off "Increase spacing for longer notes" NWC will evenly space notes along the staff and provided it will fit within the boundaries you've set you will have a single staff with everything in it.  Personally I prefer to have longer notes take more space, it makes playing it easier as there is a subliminal hint to how long to play the notes, so I usually never use this option.

However, you may find the result not especially pleasing (vis note spacing results) so then, within the section, you can use just enough spacers in strategic locations to make it more aesthetically acceptable. 

Also note, even with "Increase Spacing" turned off it may still not fit, in which case using spacers to reduce distances becomes necessary.  I prefer to make the spacers as long as possible while still remaining within the single staff.

One technique I often use is to add a single, or maybe 2, spacer(s) at the start of bars I want to shorten.  This, in conjunction with "Increase Spacing" turned ON still allows you to reduce whitespace without compromising playability.  If that isn't enough I look for bars with semibreves (whole notes) and add several spacers (often 6 to 10) after the note.  This shortens the bar without making it too short.  In these cases I may very well delete the single spacer from before the note if I've previously put one there.  If I still need to recover space I do a similar thing for minims (half notes), and so on until it fits the way I want.

Be aware that it may also be necessary rethink your approach - if you squeeze too many notes/bars into a single staff it can become unreadable, especially at speed.

N.B. if your primary goal is to stop a tie from wrapping to the next system, then don't bother.  It's often not worth the effort and any average reader can cope with a wrapped tie.

Another thing to try is to reduce the "Staff Metrics" in the Page Setup dialogue | Fonts (tab).  If you make the system font smaller you can fit more in, but you still run up against the possibility of making things too small or close together.  I prefer to not let the printed staff height get below 6mm if possible (Staff Metric of 18 on my printer using A4 paper).  Most often I will use a Staff Metric of 20, though there's really not much in it.

I admit I often try to keep my parts to a single, or at most 2 pages where possible.  BUT this is not a reasonable thing to do at the expense of readability.

I've read on the Sibelius web site that 7mm is a preferred minimum for parts and 4.5mm for conductors scores.  If you are preparing parts for string players I believe they prefer larger staves than brass players (I play brass).  I imagine reed players may be like string players as they both often have much busier parts than brass players.  The string players also often sit further away from the music stand than others, especially double bass (and maybe 'cello?).  They will benefit from larger staves, maybe 8mm.

Ultimately its about your readers.  If it's just for you then you know what you're happy with.  If it's for others, be generous with size and if it results in additional page(s) then work hard to make page turns as easy as possible.  At least 2 bars rest at medium tempo, more is always better.  If the rest ends up on the next page then an indication under the staff that there's time to turn the page is very helpful.  I generally use one of my *Dings fonts to place text indicating a rest, including how long it is, is over the page.  This is especially necessary for players who can't play and turn a page at the same time (strings, reeds, trombones...  actually most of us now I think about it.  About the only exception I can think of is maybe brass players on valved instruments)

Boy, this turned into a real treatise didn't it?  Sorry about that.  I hope I haven't been trying to "teach grandma how to suck eggs".
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #6
Thank you for all your suggestions, some of them I already knew and used. Unfortunately sometimes even forcing a system break with "Increase spacing for longer notes" OFF doesn't work as per the example I posted (I had always just two measures in the first system). But the trick you suggested worked; the only problem is that I have more than 100 measures (x 2) in that scores where I will have to put manually 12 spacers on each of them, but that will not be an issue as that score is just for me, no perfection needed. Normally I transcribe choral music (if you want you can have a look at www.cipoo.net) and Noteworthy is good for that, the only thing I miss is the brevis (two wholes) sometimes used in ancient choral music.
Than you and have a nice day.

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #7
Glad I could be of some help.

<snip>
The only thing I miss is the brevis (two wholes) sometimes used in ancient choral music.
<snip>
What about a text brevis?  What you could do is tie 2*semibreves and make them invisible.  Then, using a text entry, you can place a brevis character from the system font in the bar.  Sounds right from the tied semibreves (whole notes) and looks right from the text entry.

In the text entry dialogue box, simply select "Staff Symbols" as the font - it's the first one in the font list, and access the character from the Char. Map button.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #8
Yes, I could use a text brevis but directly having a brevis symbol would facilitate the task... They have already the symbol, I guess it should not be that difficult to add a new icon into the note toolbar just in  between the bb and semibrevis icons. As a matter of fact, when it's just at the end of the score (or for a very limited amount of brevis inside the score) I could use your suggestion. Thank you!

Re: Forcing a certain number of measures to stay on a single system

Reply #9
There was an earlier discussion on this: Spacer.htm.  Look on the line containing "original spacer" if need be. After putting default spacers in, the number of spacers can be increased or decreased. You will need to have the page open while working with NWC.
Since 1998