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Topic: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change? (Read 7776 times) previous topic - next topic

Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Hi all,
I’ve a question about Notewhorty (2.75) sharps and flats.
Most of the time I write music for (church)organ, it works fine.
I use the keyboard of Notewhorty and my mouse to write the music. But there is one thing I do not understand. In the example attached, I want the F#+A but Notewhorty set it automatically to G-flat+A.
It is not possible to change it. With my mouse I select multiply notes to make chords in one layer. A single note I can change from flat to sharp with the symbols but multiply notes not.

Is there a possibility to write music in G minor, attached example, and make a G-flat a F-Sharp?

I’ve searched the forum but I can’t find a solution for this.

Thanks!

<Image Link>

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #1 –

   Auditing the enharmonic spelling is what you need.  But ... irritatingly, Noteworthy only does this one way round - and in your case that's the wrong way.  But you can still crack the problem by first effecting a transposition - up, or down, one or two semitones; sometimes one works, sometimes the other - then effecting the enharmonic audit, and then transposing back again.  In your case, transpose down two semitones, make the audit, and then transpose up two.  Voila!

       MusicJohn 4/Jun/20

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: e.vanlaar –
With my mouse I select multiply notes to make chords in one layer.

That is something that I never did before.
I had to look in the user guide to see how I could add chords - but it is clear that this is also easy to do : first left click on the piano keyboard for the first note - hold down the left mouse button - and then add chord notes by right clicking.

Nevertheless, I am convinced that using the computer keyboard is even easier and faster. And you automatically get more flexibility. That's why I always use the computer keyboard to enter notes in Noteworthy Composer.

Position the cursor vertically with the up and down keys and add a note as a new note with ENTER, or as a chord note with CTRL+ENTER.
Duration, accidentals and special attributes like slurs, ties, ... can be modified "before adding the note" with the number keys (1-6 for duration, 7-9 for accidentals, "/" for tie, ";" for slur, "." for adding a dot to the duration, ...). Other attributes for which I don't know the keyboard shortcuts, can also always be manipulated with the button bar or with the menu items.

So to add a quarter chord F#-A in a staff with treble clef, this is what I have to type:
- key up or down until the cursor is between the first and the second line (in a staff with treble clef this is the F)
- 3 (to select a quarter note - can be skipped if the previous note was also a quarter note)
- 9 (to select a sharp)
- ENTER to place the note F#
- up twice (to place the cursor between the second and the third line)
- CTRL+ENTER to add the A chord note

Also with CTRL+BACKSPACE you can remove a chord note without touching the other notes in the chord. I don't think this is possible with the piano keyboard.

A black note on the piano keyboard can be interpreted as a flat or as a sharp. As John explained, Noteworthy Composer chooses the note with a flat for a key signature that have flats and the note with the sharp for a key signature which has already sharps.

Bart

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Bart –
A black note on the piano keyboard can be interpreted as a flat or as a sharp. As John explained, Noteworthy Composer chooses the note with a flat for a key signature that have flats and the note with the sharp for a key signature which has already sharps.
Bart
I think that a worthwhile enhancement to the piano keyboard would be the ability to have some sort of modifier (perhaps ctrl or shift key) that would affect the note that is entered when pressing a black key. For example, holding Shift while clicking could override the key signature and insert the note as a sharped note, while holding Ctrl while clicking could insert as a flatted note. Or perhaps a different mechanism could be used.

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #4 –
If you right-click on a note in a chord you can change its accidental and quite a lot of other attributes too. Make sure you haven't anything else selected when trying this.

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Peter Edwards –
If you right-click on a note in a chord you can change its accidental and quite a lot of other attributes too. Make sure you haven't anything else selected when trying this.
This is true, but you can't change a Gb to F#. The only way (that I am aware of) of changing an individual note's value (i.e. G to F) is to delete it from the chord and re-add it.

This gives me an idea for a user tool. Let's call it "Enharmonic". You select a chord (or group of chords) and run the tool. It gives you several options: Change to sharps, Change to flats, Toggle sharps/flats.  A question for tool writers: is it possible for a tool to query the cursor position on the staff? If so, a tool could do a targeted sharpen/flatten on a single note within a chord.

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #6 –
The cursor position is in the model - but whether it is stored before a user tool runs, I dont know. At least the .nwctxt file says:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:7|CaretPos:1
...

User tool: What I would expect is a tool that takes the key, including the tonic - which is in the model -
Code: [Select · Download]
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb|Tonic:G
and uses this to apply the standard rules. E.g. g minor uses b flat and e flat, but f sharp for the note between f and g. B-flat, on the other hand, uses b flat and e flat and g flat. A tool could/should/might apply accidentals according to these rules, w/sh/couldn't it?

In other words: It does what "Audit Enharmonic Spellings" does, but correctly (i.e., also for minor keys); and, as additional feature, also for highlighted segments (only); and maybe also for a single note/chord, as Mike suggests. And maybe even with "overrides" = one can suppress the "Auditing" - by mis-using some notehead/note/chord property, or by adding some marker. I'd prefer the latter, as one might want to do multiple Audit runs while writing a piece; so the "overrides" should stay in place - but then, they should not have any other musical meaning.

... so we'd end up (once again?) with a small user object ("EnharmonicControlThingy") and an associated user tool ("Enharmonic Auditing considering keys and those EnharmonicControlThingies").

H.M.

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #7 –
I have a 'déja vu' experience.
I remember I wrote a user tool enharmonic.og.lua, see:
Enharmonic Spelling - Note Entry
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #8 –
Thanks for all the helping answers, very useful.
The simplest way for me is, when I want a A-F#-D chord, I make a A-F-D chord with the virtual keyboard, not a F# but a F, right click on the F, select accidentals and select Sharp.
Thanks a lot!

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #9 –
I usually enter the notes using the (computer) keyboard, so I never have this kind of problem.
Anyway, you can take a look here

Re: Sharp in stead of flat, how to change?

Reply #10 –
I think you can also use globalmod with
Quote
Chord,Pos==b5 Pos=#4
and/or
Quote
Chord,Pos==b-2 Pos=#-3
N.B. I'm not an expert of globalmod, sorry.