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Topic: Cursor shape changing & F6 message (Read 4807 times) previous topic - next topic

Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Hello everybody, it's my first post as a proud user of licensed NWC.

In NWC 2.5 the cursor shape changes when you move it onto an inactive line. The hand goes horizontal - I can't take a screenshot, because screenshots don't capture cursors. I was wondering if there is maybe a tweak to prevent the cursor from changing. It personally annoys me and actually makes it more difficult to point at the exact place I want.

The other issue that also really irritates me is the message that pops up after pressing F6 when nothing is playing ("Nothing is currently playing (...)". I often press F6 just to be sure everything is paused, in order to proceed with note input. It's a habit from the older versions that did not yet have this irritating and - IMHO - completely unnecessary feature.

I'm not really expecting any resolution to the problems, but you know what they say - hope dies last. Apart from those two things that really spoil the fun sometimes, I find the new NWC a great piece of software and a neat improvement from the 2.0 trial I've been using for a really long time now.


Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #1
The F6 prompt is necessary because some MIDI drivers crash when flooded with a large number of note off messages. The message serves as a warning before NWC takes this step.

Also, the mouse cursors are not user configurable, so I don't think there is any way to change the way it works.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #2
Yeah, I thought not much could be done here. Anyway, thanks for your input.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #3
Hello everybody, it's my first post as a proud user of licensed NWC.
Welcome to the forum.

the mouse cursors are not user configurable
A resource editor can change the cursors, but of course that is not recommended. If NWC would, if present, load a cursor file and use it, folks could experiment.

The F6 prompt is necessary because some MIDI drivers crash when flooded with a large number of note off messages. The message serves as a warning before NWC takes this step.
Though rarely needed, I agree there should be some method to reset the MIDI drivers. IMO, MIDI reset should be a User Tool with a default tool supplied by by NoteWorthy. I have invoked the MIDI reset prompt many times by accident and agree that it is annoying.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #4
The other issue that also really irritates me is the message that pops up after pressing F6 when nothing is playing ("Nothing is currently playing (...)". I often press F6 just to be sure everything is paused, in order to proceed with note input. It's a habit from the older versions that did not yet have this irritating and - IMHO - completely unnecessary feature.
Pressing Esc will stop the song. Once stopped, multiple presses do nothing. So if you train youself to never press F6, you will not generate unwanted 'MIDI Reset' popups.

According to the Keyboard Guide, F6 is used only for stopping playback and MIDI reset.

IMO, Shift+F6 is an awkward combination for something as often used as Pause. I would suggest that while in playback mode, Space should toggle Pause.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #5
I'm resurrecting this topic because something occurred to me re the "nothing is playing" warning that comes up when either the F6 key or the stop button is pressed while playback is inactive. Many of us have the habit that Ekhangel referred to - pressing one or the other of these to make sure playback has completed (especially helpful when the score has a hidden staff that continues past the end of the visible staves).

It would help avoid this if the stop button was grayed out when playback wasn't taking place.

I realize that many buttons are grayed out when playback is happening, and "return to life" when it stops, and one can theoretically look at those - but one normally doesn't. One looks at the button one is about to push, and since it doesn't currently change, there's no clue there. Seems like a simple programming task. Eric?

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #6
It would help avoid this if the stop button was grayed out when playback wasn't taking place.
I agree. The 'Stop' button should be grayed when there is nothing to stop.

Pressing Esc will stop the song. Once stopped, multiple presses do nothing. So if you train youself to never press F6, you will not generate unwanted 'MIDI Reset' popups.
My opinion on this has not changed.

Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #7
I agree with the previous posters, that clicking "Stop" (when not playing) should not present the user with the MIDI reset prompt.

I just wanted to mention that this most often happens for me when I click the "Stop" button to halt playback, and the score has already finished playing, because I wasn't quite fast enough. I guess I can also train myself to press the Esc key. (I don't often press F6 or other function keys, because they are remapped on my keyboard.)

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #8
Actually, I LIKE the ability to use F6/Stop button to do a MIDI reset - it is easy and convenient.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #9
Like Lawrie, sometimes I need to click "stop" to clear some stuck notes after the play is finished.
It's good to have an easy way to do that.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #10
Actually, I LIKE the ability to use F6/Stop button to do a MIDI reset - it is easy and convenient.
Like Lawrie, sometimes I need to click "stop" to clear some stuck notes after the play is finished.
It's good to have an easy way to do that.
Do you mean that the 'Stop' button should not be grayed when there is nothing to stop?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #11
Like Lawrie, sometimes I need to click "stop" to clear some stuck notes after the play is finished.
It's good to have an easy way to do that.

I do too, and I don't think that would change. If there were stuck notes to stop, playback would still be active and the button wouldn't be grayed out.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #12
If there were stuck notes to stop, playback would still be active and the button wouldn't be grayed out.
I don't think so. Noteworthy just sends MIDI messages. It doesn't know what the synth will do with them. If the synth misses a 'Note Off' message (or 'Note On' with velocity zero), you get a stuck note.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #13
If there were stuck notes to stop, playback would still be active and the button wouldn't be grayed out.
I'm not sure about it. I think that, more often than not, NWC simply can't know.

Quote
Do you mean that the 'Stop' button should not be grayed when there is nothing to stop?
Said this way sounds odd  ;)  but... yes, since the stop button has also a different meaning than simply stopping NWC.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #14
Said this way sounds odd  ;)  but... yes, since the stop button has also a different meaning than simply stopping NWC.
It doesn't just sound odd. To a new user, it is odd. IMO, the 'Stop' button shouldn't have a "different meaning."
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #15
Well, I'm sure I saw some programs with a separate "panic" button, but I think I saw also programs with the same behaviour of NWC.
After all, if you keep hearing some sounds, the first thing you think is to click "stop", don't you?  :)

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #16
Well, I'm sure I saw some programs with a separate "panic" button
A good idea. Those of us who don't need it can remove it from the tool bar.

if you keep hearing some sounds, the first thing you think is to click "stop", don't you?  :)
No. It might be one of the things I think.

Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #17
I don't think so. Noteworthy just sends MIDI messages. It doesn't know what the synth will do with them. If the synth misses a 'Note Off' message (or 'Note On' with velocity zero), you get a stuck note.


Maybe. But I think a stuck note is most likely due to a MISSING "note off"  - e.g., a dangling tie - rather than a MISSED "note off." Surely NWC can keep track of note ons and note offs and know if there is still a note on somewhere?

But I do think a separate panic button would be a good idea....just in case. That way, all bases would be covered.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #18
But I think a stuck note is most likely due to a MISSING "note off"  - e.g., a dangling tie - rather than a MISSED "note off."
Since it happened to me just yesterday I can say: no.
The problem was not for sure what you describe since the second time it played just fine.
I must admit I don't know what I did to provoke it.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #19
Maybe
There is no maybe about it. NoteWorthy cannot query the synth for stuck notes.

But I think a stuck note is most likely due to a MISSING "note off"  - e.g., a dangling tie - rather than a MISSED "note off."
A different issue.

Surely NWC can keep track of note ons and note offs and know if there is still a note on somewhere?
It could, but what do you suggest that it do with that information?
Do you think it impossible that a user might want to leave notes hanging? I do not.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #20
I must admit I don't know what I did to provoke it.
Probably nothing. If you are using an external synth, electrical "noise" is likely. I do not have this problem using 'Microsoft GS Synthesizer.'
Registered user since 1996

  • Bart
  • NWC2 User
Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #21
Nice conversation!

I am suffering too from my old - bad - habit to press F6, just to be sure the song has really stopped.
In the past, I never had bad experiences with failing drivers, so I didn't bother when I pressed F6 unnecessarily. With the new pop up screen, this has changed.

I think the confusion starts because one single key (F6) has a different behaviour depending on the fact that there is a song playing or not. I think this is not the optimal choice.
I would expect that if I ask to stop a song (F6) that isn't playing anymore, nothing happens!

Now, when the song has already stopped, the meaning changes in a - mostly - "unwanted" panic reset, and I always blame myself for not being careful enough.

It seems that there are at least 3 keys that can stop a playing song:
F6 of course and its corresponding "stop" button,
ESC (as Rick learned us in Reply 4),
but also F5  and its corresponding "play" button. F5 and the play button seems to be a toggle key between playing and stopping.

If the STOP function would be removed from F6 - there are alternatives -, this key could be exclusively reserved for a panic reset - maybe even when the song is still playing. But mistyping between F5 and F6 is likely, therefore I would prefer ESC to be reserved exclusively for a panic reset - Sorry, Rick.

In most other softwares ESC has no meaning at all or a special meaning. That's why it seems perfect for the unusual purpose of a panic reset. And I would be perfectly happy with a warning message when I didn't ask for unwanted panic resets (by pressing F6 at the wrong moment).

Bart

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #22
There is no maybe about it. NoteWorthy cannot query the synth for stuck notes.....A different issue.....It could, but what do you suggest that it do with that information?

Do you think it impossible that a user might want to leave notes hanging? I do not.


This is kinda exasperating, Rick. The sentence you say is "a different issue" is a modifier of the "maybe" that you consider a separate issue. To clarify, with additions to the original in italics and the connecting "but" emphasized in bold (I thought these were self-evident from the sentence construction):

Quote
Maybe NWC can't monitor for stuck notes, but I think a stuck note is most likely due to a MISSING "note off"  - e.g., a dangling tie - rather than a MISSED "note off, and it can monitor for those."

If it's monitoring for missing note-offs, then it can leave the play button active until the user presses it. If a user wants to leave a note sounding for a while, fine - just don't press the button.

And, honestly - I've been using NWC about as long as you have (since it couldn't even create back-to-back repeat signs), and I cannot recall a single instance of a stuck note that didn't result from some mistake I had made in the notation. Flurmy's experience suggests that it might have happened for him....but that's what a panic button is needed for.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #23
Nice conversation!

I am suffering too from my old - bad - habit to press F6, just to be sure the song has really stopped.
In the past, I never had bad experiences with failing drivers, so I didn't bother when I pressed F6 unnecessarily. With the new pop up screen, this has changed.

I think the confusion starts because one single key (F6) has a different behaviour depending on the fact that there is a song playing or not. I think this is not the optimal choice.
I would expect that if I ask to stop a song (F6) that isn't playing anymore, nothing happens!
...
Bart
I guess my timing is perfect because I just ran into that blooming F6 popup query for the third or fourth time in a row.  I don't want to see it.  Ever.  I don't care if it resets something or not.  To me, F6 is to stop the playback.  If I'm only playing back to hear the last bar I notated, sure, the music has ended, but F6 is automatic for  me.  I've been using this program for nearly 20 years and I don't see the need to learn a new command to replace F6 playback stop.
NWC works best for me when most commands fall under my fingertips or require a simple grab, point and click of the mouse.  I use an articulated keyboard with the Escape key inconveniently out of reach.  To get there, I have to take my hands away from what I'm doing, go find the key, and come back.  Graphics are not my thing, and I seldom notate with the mouse anyway, so having to click a small button I find hard to see and point to is just a nuisance.
Maybe the answer is to have F6 and the stop button work with a single press or click, as the case may be, to stop any playback in progress, but that won't generate the reset message unless it's pressed or clicked a second time.   Or find a different hot key for the reset function.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #24
In most other softwares ESC has no meaning at all or a special meaning.
In NoteWorthy, ESC has only one meaning: get out of the current mode or popup and return to edit/view mode.

I would expect that if I ask to stop a song (F6) that isn't playing anymore, nothing happens!
That is not unreasonable. If implemented, Noteworthy would need some way to reset the MIDI device. I would just write a User Tool to reset my MIDI device, but others might be out of luck.

I've been using this program for nearly 20 years and I don't see the need to learn a new command to replace F6 playback stop.
So, for you, some aspects of the program can never change. I understand. I don't agree, but I understand.
  • Last Edit: 2015-08-05 11:34 pm by Rick G.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #25
Do you mean that the 'Stop' button should not be grayed when there is nothing to stop?
I am fine with that.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #26
Quote
Probably nothing. If you are using an external synth, electrical "noise" is likely. I do not have this problem using 'Microsoft GS Synthesizer.'
I often use an external synth with meters of cable and I think I never had any problem, but in that specific case I was using the internal SB E-mu synth. I did something with the (computer) keyboard, but I can't remember what.

Maybe the answer is to have F6 and the stop button work with a single press or click, as the case may be, to stop any playback in progress, but that won't generate the reset message unless it's pressed or clicked a second time.
... and not nagging with a dialog in this latter case.
It seems like it was until recently and I like it. Wasn't that way?

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #27
Yeah.  I think my "solution" could have been written more clearly, so here's a second "go:"

Problem:
[font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]When F6 is pressed after playback has stopped, a MIDI Reset dialogue box pops up and has to be cleared before the user can continue notating music.  This disrupts the work flow and may disrupt the thought processes of those who are either composing new music or copying complicated notation from "busy" scores. [/font]

Suggested solution:

1.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is pressed (or the Stop icon is clicked) during playback, playback should stop as it has always done.  (No MIDI Reset dialogue appears.)[/font]

2.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is pressed one time or the Stop icon is clicked [/font]one time after playback has stopped, pressing F6 or single clicking Stop should do nothing.  The MIDI Reset dialogue box should not appear.[/font]

3.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is rapidly pressed twice or the Stop icon is double-clicked[/font][/font] after playback has stopped or if MIDI needs to be reset, the MIDI Reset dialogue box should appear.  Instead of pressing F6 twice, some other key combination could be established(Shift-F6?).

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #28
Yeah.  I think my "solution" could have been written more clearly, so here's a second "go:"

Problem:
[font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]When F6 is pressed after playback has stopped, a MIDI Reset dialogue box pops up and has to be cleared before the user can continue notating music.  This disrupts the work flow and may disrupt the thought processes of those who are either composing new music or copying complicated notation from "busy" scores. [/font]

Suggested solution:

1.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is pressed (or the Stop icon is clicked) during playback, playback should stop as it has always done.  (No MIDI Reset dialogue appears.)[/font]

2.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is pressed one time or the Stop icon is clicked [/font]one time after playback has stopped, pressing F6 or single clicking Stop should do nothing.  The MIDI Reset dialogue box should not appear.[/font]

3.  [font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', Arial, sans-serif]If F6 is rapidly pressed twice or the Stop icon is double-clicked[/font][/font] after playback has stopped or if MIDI needs to be reset, the MIDI Reset dialogue box should appear.  Instead of pressing F6 twice, some other key combination could be established(Shift-F6?).

Forum display (Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message)
Reply #29
Sorry for the double posting.  I was trying to repost without the ugly html code but I can't seem to do that.  Nor can I delete one copy.  Blame it on Windows 8.1 I guess.

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #30
some other key combination could be established(Shift-F6?).
Shift+F6 invokes the Pause Command.

Ctrl+F6 cycles through the Child Windows.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Cursor shape changing & F6 message
Reply #31
I guess double tap F6 is the way to go then.

By the way, I've just installed Windows 10.  NWC 2.75 Beta preview 44 runs, but Print Preview seems a little grainy.  There's probably a graphics setting that will smooth it out.  Not worried about it tonight.  Playback seems fine.