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Topic: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75 (Read 2205 times) previous topic - next topic

Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

I use NWC (v2.5.5) to prepare music as a note-bashing aid to my choir. Because some choir members still use NWC1, I export to v1.75 before publishing. So I am concerned with the way the lyrics fit the notes but not about the appearance.

Stave 1 of the attached file shows examples of grace notes with and without slurs; all notes have the attribute Lyric:Default.

Stave 2 shows what happens when this is exported to a v1.75 file. The middle notes in bars 2 and 4 now have the attribute Lyric:Never and the slur in bar 3 is missing.

Stave 3 has been doctored by modifying the Lyric attribute of three notes as indicated by the text notes.

Stave 4 confirms that, when this is exported, the lyrics are correct, although the slur in bar 3 is still missing.

Is there a good reason why export from NWC2 behaves in this way?

Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #1
As you know, backwardly compatible (newer versions can read files written by older versions) does not mean fully compatible (files written by newer versions are not always fully translatable into formats readable by older versions). The handling of grace notes is one of the things that has been changed significantly since ver. 1.75, and one of those changes is in the way they relate to slurs. A slur from a grace note to the following "real" note is handled specially in ver. 2.x; it was not handled specially in ver. 1.x. That said, I don't have any specific knowledge about why the grace notes behave as they do in relation to slurs when you export to 1.75. I would hazard a guess that the problems you ask about are caused by a couple of things. One is that grace notes don't take lyric syllables, and that a note slurred from a preceding note takes the lyric syllable of that note. If that note is a grace note, there is no lyric syllable to take, and I would guess that 1.75 made no allowance for that. The other is that any "real" note that doesn't have a slur property breaks the slur. Since grace notes and "real" notes were formerly handled the same way, when a grace note has no slur property in 1.75 it acts the same as any other note would - it breaks the slur. Just guessing....


Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #2
This post isn't about backward compatibility, but it's an offer of a solution for your situation: your choir members could install the free viewer, which will load, play and even print NWC 2.5x files. The download page is here:

The current version of the viewer is 2.5.6

Caveat: I've not installed the new version of the viewer and NWC 1.75 together (and I don't have a way to do that, since I'm already running 2.5x), but I can't think of a reason they couldn't coexist.


Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #3
I have both nwc versions 1.75 and 2.5x installed on my computer and they both work fine with Viewer 2.5.6

Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #4
Thanks for the analysis and for the suggestion; some already do use the viewer but I am reluctant to push people in that direction because it is a much less flexible, and hence less useful, tool than either NWC1 or NWC2. For example, when note-bashing a difficult passage I sometimes need to hear (just) that passage several times; starting the viewer anywhere but at the beginning is rather approximate.  For this reason I adopted v1.75 files as the lowest common denominator for publication.

I think my work-around must be to use only the configurations illustrated in bars 1 and 4 of my example. They don't need any attributes to export reasonably and they display well (though not identically) using any of the programs; the addition of a Lyric:Never attribute by the export process is unnecessary but does no harm.

I too have never found any issues in having NWC1, NWC1 Player, NWC2 and NWC2 Viewer all installed.

Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #5
For example, when note-bashing a difficult passage I sometimes need to hear (just) that passage several times; starting the viewer anywhere but at the beginning is rather approximate. 

I think it's time you looked at the viewer again with respect to choral rehearsals.

The viewer now :

1. allows you to mute any staff or groups of staff that you want. So the chorister can end up with just the line that they want to sing if that's what the want to do.  The only thing you can't do is to "unmute" a staff that the originator originally intended to be mute (say for display purposes). (Pressing m brings up the facility to mute staves in the viewer)

2. allows you to speed up or slow down the music to allow a slower version for trickier parts or to whizz past unwanted or well known parts. (ALT key and either +- or = allows you to do this)

3. allows you to start at the exact measure you want to (Play will start at the left most measure). Also the time slider is a good way to find a required starting point or a combination od left and right keys.

4. allows you to pause the music and restart from the same place.

5. allows you to repeat a tricky passage by just continually pressing F5 to restart from the last place you started rather than at the beginning.

Brian, it seems it has been a while since you downloaded and the viewer and looked at the new features. I would recommend it for rehearsing a choral part.


Re: Grace notes exported to NWC 1.75

Reply #6
You are right, Rich: the viewer has improved a lot since I last had a serious look at it. I especially like the ability to slow down to a percentage of the original tempi. I shall try recommending it and see what happens. Thanks.