Repeat endings problem

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Repeat endings problem

2013-01-08 11:37 pm

Hi all - I freely admit I'm not the smartest person in the room, but I cannot figure out how to get the repeat endings feature to playback properly.

Here's what I'm trying to do.

I have a medley of songs that is 106 measures long from beginning to end. I want the song to play through measure 100, then repeat back to measure 87. Then play through measure 96, then skip to measure 101 and play to the end of the song. Sounds simple enough.

Here's what I did, on all four staffs (staves?). I should mention that this is a barbershop arrangement and thus has four staffs; from top to bottom - tenor, lead, baritone and bass.

1. I put the "Master Repeat Open" bar at the beginning of measure 87.
2. I put the "Master Repeat Close" bar at the end of measure 100.
3. I inserted the 1st "Special Endings" bracket at the beginning of measure 97 and extended it to the "Master Repeat Closed" bar (at the end of measure 100).
4. I then inserted the 2nd "Special Endings" bracket at the beginning of measure 101 and extended it to the end of the song, although I don't think that was necessary.

On the printed paper, all this looks fine and should work out great for our barbershop quartet. However, on the playback, the first repeat ending plays and repeats seven times which I think is the default and then stops. The second ending never plays at all.

Any help on what I'm doing wrong would be greatly appreciated. And please simplify your answer since evidently I'm not smart enough to do what looks to be a simple repeat ending.

Thanks in advance,

Ron Davidson
Staunton, VA.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #1 – 2013-01-09 12:03 am

I would do it using flow direction commands rather than repeats.

Do the following on all staves.

At measure 87 (after first bar line) put a "segno" mark
At measure 96 (before end bar line)put a "To Coda" instruction
At measure 100 (before end bar line) put a D.S. al Coda" mark
At measure 101 (after first bar line) put a coda mark

All of these instructions can be found in "Insert" "Flow Direction"

This should then play back as you want. (Don't forget to do all staves)

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #2 – 2013-01-09 12:22 am

Quote from: RGDavidson – 2013-01-08 11:37 pm

I have a medley of songs that is 106 measures long from beginning to end. I want the song to play through measure 100, then repeat back to measure 87. Then play through measure 96, then skip to measure 101 and play to the end of the song. Sounds simple enough.

IOW:
1-86 is A
87-96 is B
97-100 is C
101 to the end is D
You want ABCBD

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|BoundaryBottom:20
|Lyric1|Text:"a b c d\r\n"
|Lyric2|Text:"a b c d\r\n"
|Lyric3|Text:"a b c d\r\n"
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Ending|Endings:1,2
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Ending|Endings:2
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
|Bar|Style:SectionClose
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #3 – 2013-01-09 12:42 am

Rich - Your solution worked! But I guess you already knew it would. :-) Thanks so much! At least now I can play the song and it comes out properly.

Rick - Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure what to do with the script you wrote. I know it's a programming script, and I've seen several here on the forum, but I'm not sure what one is supposed to do with it. Thank you so much for your efforts! It is greatly appreciated. I hope you (or someone) will reply to let me know how these scripts are to be installed(?) and used.

Thanks again!

Ron

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #4 – 2013-01-09 12:50 am

Quote from: RGDavidson – 2013-01-09 12:42 am

I'm not sure what to do with the script you wrote.

Just click the download link. Select 'open' when prompted. If that doesn't work, try 'save' and then drag the saved file onto NoteWorthy. More details here: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7608.msg52835#msg52835
Here is another. It is a bit simpler.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Lyric1|Text:"a b c d\r\n"
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
|Bar|Style:SectionClose
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #5 – 2013-01-09 02:11 am

I saw that there is a folder in Noteworthy for Scripts. Should the file go into that folder or just into the main folder where all the Noteworthy files are located?

Thanks,

Ron

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #6 – 2013-01-09 02:15 am

The main folder. This is simply nwctxt. Scripts (aka User Tools) are mostly PHP. You will see lots of color in a PHP script.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #7 – 2013-01-17 09:11 am

FWIW,
My choice would be Rich's solution for THIS problem.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #8 – 2013-01-17 10:36 am

Quote from: Haymo – 2013-01-17 09:11 am

My choice would be Rich's solution for THIS problem.

You might be right. You may be able to imagine what "THIS problem" is better than I can. The topic originator describes it as:

Quote from: RGDavidson – 2013-01-08 11:37 pm

a medley of songs that is 106 measures long from beginning to end. I want the song to play through measure 100, then repeat back to measure 87. Then play through measure 96, then skip to measure 101 and play to the end of the song.

Without seeing the song, it is hard to tell. It could be that Rich's "segno/To Coda/D.S. al Coda/coda" instructions will make perfect sense to the singers. If not, it won't make much difference which method is used since the flow will be hidden (all or in part). Since it is a medley, one might assume that the songs will be named, in which case a simple "Repeat song X here." may suffice

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #9 – 2013-01-17 12:13 pm

I think Ron's description of what he notated is exactly what he should have done. Bars 87 to 95 should have played twice, and then the program should have jumped to 101. In other words, one repeat, not six.

Rich's solution (Reply 1) does what's wanted, but more elaborately. Both of Rick's solutions work, but his first suggestion (Reply 2) is too sophisticated for novices to follow. Reply 4 works fine, and is really just what Ron described.

If Ron wrote the music exactly as he describes, he should not be getting the section from 87 to 95 played back 7 times, and he should hear bar 101 after bar 95 on the second time through. If he's not, I think there could be thee possible errors:

a. Maybe he's used local repeats by mistake, with a repeat value (common mistake, I think).
b. Selected 1,2,3,4,5,and 6 in Special Endings (possible but unlikely), or
c. Revealed a new bug in the program.

It would be interesting to see the file to figure out exactly why the repeat is wonky.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #10 – 2013-01-18 06:16 pm

I am actually having a similar problem with a score I just entered for my church choir. There are two repeated sections with special endings 1&2, then 3, and the second repeated section just plays over and over never taking the final ending. (I never waited for 7 repeats.) I am keeping an eye on this thread.

I am not a novice user, and have not experienced problems with repeats before.

Thanks,
Jim

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #11 – 2013-01-18 07:10 pm

When you see Code (nwc) like in replies 2 and 4 of this thread, click on Select and then Cntl/C to clipboard it. Start NoteWorthy and then Cntl/Shift/V will create a file from the contents of the clipboard.

Even easier is this shortcut tool for your desktop Rick described in this thread. If you follow his instructions and then assign a shortcut key to it, after Cntl/C and your shortcut key you are done.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #12 – 2013-01-18 08:56 pm

Warren, my browser gives me these choices for the clips

Quote

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

Download saves a couple of steps usually. The file will open as a new file, and if NWC is not yet open, it will open the program at the same time.

This doesn't really make Select redundant, though, because sometimes I want to copy the file to a text program to study it

.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #13 – 2013-01-21 02:03 am

I did some experimenting, and found that the presence of a double bar line within the first & second ending was the culprit in the extra repeating. Apparently, the double bar somehow negates the repeat count. The double bar is valid because it separates a verse section from a chorus section within the special ending. IMO, this is a bug.

I am used to maintaining two copies of a song file, one to print and another to play. so it's not critical, but I believe the double bar should not scramble the repeat logic.

Thanks,
Jim

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #14 – 2013-01-21 02:36 am

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #15 – 2013-01-21 04:28 am

FWIW, if I remember correctly, any decorated barline will terminate the special ending logic.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #16 – 2013-01-21 02:54 pm

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2013-01-21 02:36 am

Sticking a double bar line in the middle of the special ending seems unusual. Have you seen it used often in music notated by other people?

Standard notation uses a double bar line as part of a key change. Key changes happen in special endings in real life.

This can result in problems since NWC's treatment of double bar lines is:

Quote from: NoteWorthy Online – 2007-01-24 09:39 pm

Double bar lines are basically treated as special ending termination points.

In light of the above statement, my solution is:

Quote from: Rick G. – 2010-08-15 02:37 pm

When a double barline appears when a SE is in effect, put a hidden SE immediately after

It is not always obvious when a SE (Special Ending) is "in effect". Sometimes hidden SE's are needed, sometimes not.

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2013-01-21 02:36 am

I was able to replicate the behaviour by changing Rick's example in reply 4 as follows:

I can't see what you mean. If I add lyrics to it using NoteWorthy Composer 2 Note Names, the playback is ABCBABD. If I delete the double bar, the playback is ABCBABD

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #17 – 2013-01-21 05:49 pm

As I stated earlier:

Quote from: jim_jr – 2013-01-21 02:03 am

The double bar is valid because it separates a verse section from a chorus section within the special ending.

This is also how the published sheet music appears. I can't post because it's copyrighted material. I may post a template example later on today.

Jim

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #18 – 2013-01-21 05:56 pm

Quote from: jim_jr – 2013-01-21 02:03 am

the double bar somehow negates the repeat count. The double bar is valid because it separates a verse section from a chorus section within the special ending. IMO, this is a bug.

I agree, but NoteWorthy does not. It has the only vote that matters.

You can now use this to simulate a double bar line:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:22
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #19 – 2013-01-21 07:13 pm

Thanks, Rick. I had some kind of notion about a text solution in the back of my mind, but your solution is much cleaner. ☺

Jim

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #20 – 2013-01-21 09:11 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2013-01-21 04:28 am

FWIW, if I remember correctly, any decorated barline will terminate the special ending logic.

You're probably right, Lawrie. I don't believe single or double, ~~section open and section close~~ bar lines should do that.

By the way, I don't recall seeing the Transparent bar line before, but it is in 2.5.5 as well as the new beta. When was it introduced, and for what purpose?

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #21 – 2013-01-21 09:33 pm

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2013-01-21 09:11 pm

I don't recall seeing the Transparent bar line before, but it is in 2.5.5 as well as the new beta. When was it introduced, and for what purpose?

NoteWorthy Composer 2.5 Beta [Closed, Upgrade Release Available]

Quote

New in Beta Preview 35
• New Transparent bar line style

Quote from: NoteWorthy Online – 2011-12-17 06:25 pm

As of Beta Pre 35, it is recommended that you use a transparent bar line after the boundary change gap width. This will allow:
a system change immediately after the gap width
the bar line to orphan at the end of a system and not be visible

Stated purpose aside, I have tried to find a use for it and have failed. It is on my dunsel list.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #22 – 2013-01-22 08:25 pm

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2013-01-21 09:11 pm

...I don't believe single, double, section open and section close bar lines should do that.

G'day David. While I think there's an argument that double bar lines might be excluded from the "end repeat logic" situation (indicating a key change), I don't agree with section open/close barlines. They absolutely should terminate the repeat logic.

I might also note that according to Alfred's a double barline prior to a key change is not mandatory, but can be a single barline instead.

Re: Repeat endings problem

Reply #23 – 2013-01-23 09:00 am

Thanks, Rick.

Thanks, Lawrie, and since I don't know if the section end/beginning lines should interrupt the flow, I'll edit my comment below to tacetly agree with you.