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Topic: Multi Bar Rests (Read 39872 times) previous topic - next topic

Multi Bar Rests

OK...for a couple of years I've read all the tips and tricks on how to do this.  None of them have made any sense, with using different fonts from some magical fontland, special downloads of tools, and I dunno what else has been involved.  Tonight I finally found something that made sense, and after a bit of tinkering, this finally works for me.

1.  Write the rests as single measures with bar lines and all that normal notation in the staff stuff.

2.  Select the range of measures, except the front of the first measure and the back of the last measure.
        2a.  Right click on the highlighted bars, select PROPERTIES>Visibility>show on printed page>NEVER.

3.  Click to insert text just after the first bar line.
        3a. Type [==xy==] (xy being the number of bars of rest)
         3b.  set placement as 1 centered as staff signature PRESERVE WIDTH
         3c.  use a font bigger and bolder than the rest of your notation.  

Nothing to it, aside from having to go back on this long-term project and redo all the rests.  None of the special, supersecret, magical downloads of potions and spells to make something happen.  

I hope this helps someone else.

steve

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #1 –
G'day Steve,
that's pretty much it...

The fonts are simply to give you characters that make the text look more, umm, traditional(?) than [==xy==] does.

The user tool by Kjeld Hansen just automates the process of hiding the rests and barlines and inserting the appropriate text items.  It's intended to save time, though you seem to have lost time with it which is unfortunate.  You still have to actually enter the whole rests and barlines (and have the appropriate font installed) to start with so the tool has something to work with.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #2 –
What Lawrie kindly does not say is that placing the numerals within the staff is incorrect, the horizontal line should be a solid line and should have serifs rather than brackets at the ends. 

His fonts, available at the Scriptorium, are easy to instal.  Instructions are in the .zip files, if I recall correctly. 

Once you've done that, you can use my  Multibarrests.nwc file from the Helpful Files section of the Scriptorium http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html.  Just keep the file open, and copy the appropriate bars and rests over the rests in your own song. The file does require you to use Lawrie's SwingDings font as Userfont3. 

I created the file before the UserTool came along.  Since the user tool is accurate, very fast and almost effortless, I don't use my file much any longer.  There's little need to.


Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #3 –
Quote
His fonts, available at the Scriptorium, are easy to instal.  Instructions are in the .zip files, if I recall correctly.

Even simpler: install the PardyPack http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/uc/pardypack/

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #4 –
I think this hint pretty well demonstrates why the PardyPack should become part of the standard NWC installation package. There are probably many users like eupher61 who are afraid to install new fonts, or don't know how and are reluctant to learn. If NWC installed the fonts during program installation and included a help topic about how to use them, it would greatly improve the experience of those users - without any changes necessary to the program itself, only to the installation module and the help screens.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #5 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
I think this hint pretty well demonstrates why the PardyPack should become part of the standard NWC installation package. There are probably many users like eupher61 who are afraid to install new fonts
I disgree. It is most likely that the next version of NoteWorthy will have support for Multi Bar Rests. I don't read anything in this topic to indicate that anyone is afraid to install a font. The gist of eupher61's tip is that if the need is for a raw stand-in for Multi Bar Rests, it can be done simply.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #6 –
Quote from: eupher61
<snip>None of them have made any sense, with using different fonts from some magical fontland, special downloads of tools, and I dunno what else has been involved.<snip>
Quote from: eupher61
<snip>None of the special, supersecret, magical downloads of potions and spells to make something happen.<snip>

To me, those two quotes demonstrate extreme Fear of Fonts (and other downloads). Yes, the next NWC release will almost certainly have support for multibar rests. It does not appear to have support for arpeggios, or rehearsal numbers, or true 8va notation, to name three other things Lawry's fonts are good for. There are many others. The PardyPack is the single most useful addition to NWC available, and will continue to be needed until and unless Eric institutes all of its symbols. I stand by my suggestion.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #7 –
I agree with including the Pardy Pack if possible.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #8 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
I agree with including the Pardy Pack if possible.

Agree here too.

The rest below may sound OT at first, but it's on the point about fonts in the next NWC release.

Last weekend I spent three hours on the telephone helping a person to install fonts, so they could try the NoteWorthy Viewer with some scores from the Scriptorium.  It was agonizing.

Those scores on the Scripto are several years old.  They use Boxmarks, Boxmark2, and/or Crescendo.

The Crescendo was there because the scores preceded NWC's incorporation of hairpins.

Boxmarks and Boxmark2 were there because they show string tremolos, still not supported natively in NWC.

So there was no other way, at the time, to notate those scores.

The person on the other end is a superb musician, lovely soprano voice, and is one of the directors of a music group.

But  (Eric, note hard)  --  that person, like so many others, is _not_ a Web or Windows guru.

You are talking to a superb musician who _already_ is using Sibelius with Scorch.  You are trying to introduce her to NoteWorthy.

So for the start you get her to download the NW Viewer, and install it.  No problem. 

She's already done something like that for Sibelius.  Familiar territory.

Then you get her to download some music files from the Scriptorium.  No problem. 

She's already done something like that for Sibelius.  Familiar territory.

Now comes the problem.

The NoteWorthy scores will have nutty-looking symbols splattered throughout them.  Visually horrible, no other word for it.

So the next job is to get BoxMarks, Boxmark2, and Crescendo installed.

You help the person to go to the Helpful Files page on the Scripto.  And download BoxMarks.zip.  And download Boxmark2.zip.  And download cresc.zip.  And tell her to disregard the notice about 'Beta1'.  And then unzip the files.  And disregard the instructions for Windows 3.1.

And then use 'My Computer' to find her WINNT\FONTS folder.  And make sure that left and right clicks are not ruining anything in her PC.  And then in that folder, navigate to one of the folders where a font was extracted.  And then highlight the font file.  And then back in the FONTS folder, click 'File' and then 'Install New Font'.

That is all alien territory for the person.

- - -

Eric, I am a _faithful_ user of NWC for more than twelve years.

That episode was embarrassing.

All the musician -- with other viewer/composer software experience -- wants to do is download an EXE and install it.  And then focus on the software's playback of the music. 

NOT to navigate to two web sites, read several ReadMe files while wondering about Window 3.1 notes, then navigate around in Windows.  And then to install files that are _required_ to view and play the score but are not provided in the viewer and player.

You have  _got_  to support some of the key, major 'legacy' fonts by making them  _native_  and embedded in the NW Viewer and Composer installer executables.

It was a degrading experience.  It was handled gently and with kindness at the time, far more than you read in this rant.

How do you think I will _ever_ convince them to convert to Composer for future work?

Some folks are computer 'savvy'.  But the NoteWorthy target audience, I beg to suggest, is _not_ amenable to downloading a series of zip files, navigating two web sites, navigating the C: drive, and installing a series of additional fonts simply because that is the  _only_  way to view the major existing collection of NWC music files.

Embed and include the damn things.

Eric? 

End of rant.

Joe


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Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #9 –
I should have added:

Include Lawrie's 'Dings' too.  One should not have to hunt for them.

Even if a future release of NWC incorporates native handling of the symbols in Lawrie's 'Dings' suites, Boxmarks, and Boxmark2 (as has been done for Crescendo, with NWC's hairpins) ...

... What about all the music files currently up in the Scriptorium?

Should the authors of those files be told to pull them down, re-score them, and then put them back?

Plain.  Lawrie's 'Dings' suites, and Boxmarks, and Boxmark2, and Crescendo need to be included in the NWC and Viewer installer downloads.

Joe

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Joseph Roberts –
Plain.  Lawrie's 'Dings' suites, and Boxmarks, and Boxmark2, and Crescendo need to be included in the NWC and Viewer installer downloads.
I disagree. IMO, only NWC2STDA.ttf should be included and automatically installed by the Viewer and Composer.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #11 –
Can you defend that, Rick? Given that NWC2STDA.ttf does not contain all the standard musical symbols required by many scores?

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Yes, but it would be off topic in a User Tip dedicated to "Multi Bar Rests".

You can always start another topic.  Your answer would be extremely interesting to say the least as it gives us the "cons".  So far we have heard only the "pros".

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Yes, but it would be off topic in a User Tip dedicated to "Multi Bar Rests".

With complete respect, Rick ...

The thread had already brought up the subject of fonts (and Fear of Fonts). 

It would be good to hear your viewpoint in another thread, if you'd like to initiate one.

Question to explore ...

You're conversing with people who are excellent musicians.  Currently they are happy and comfortable using competitive (non-NWC) music notation/playback software.

They are not well-versed in PCs, and they use several different releases of Windows.

The job is to introduce them to NoteWorthy, and work for a successful transition to NoteWorthy.

It would be done first through the Viewer and the superb (literally, unmatched) collections on the Scriptorium.  Ultimately the goal would be to migrate to Composer and begin using it for their individual and section work. 

They are all kind human beings, but of course there are differing personalities and differing time availabilities.  Their focus, personally, and through familiarity with their existing playback/notation software, is on the _music_, not on navigating C: drives, folders, Windows font paths, or Windows menus.

First impressions often stay with people.  Ideally, first impressions with NWC should be effective.

Some of the scores they'll see have arpeggios.  Been there in the Scriptorium for years.

How would you handle it?


Joe


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Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #15 –
It doesn't appear that Rick is going to start another thread, so I have taken the liberty of doing so. You'll find it in the "general" section of the forum. Let's continue this discussion over there.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #16 –
Just an update to things discussed here:

Multi-measure Rests were added in NWC Version 2.5.

The Pardy Pack fonts are bundled into the NWC Viewer Version 2.5.5.

Re: Multi Bar Rests

Reply #17 –
Not to take up much space  --  Here's a hearty "Thank You!"

Could the PardyPack be included soon in the NW Composer download?

It just gets better and better.

Cheers and well done,

Joe