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Topic: A problem with Widor.  (Read 7058 times) previous topic - next topic

A problem with Widor.

Widor’s Toccata from his Fifth organ symphony is well known and has been put into the Scriptorium by Richard Woodroffe. The other four parts of the symphony are less well known and rarely performed.

I am attempting to put these onto Noteworthy but have run up against a problem with Widor’s composing. 

In a number of places there are many quick runs of notes which can only be fitted into the beat if they are played as sets of triplets, (although they are not so marked in  his score).

 But elsewhere I have 5 notes in a bar which if played as scored require 5 rather than 4 beats

There are an eighth note and two sixteenth beamed together and two eighth notes beamed together. Logically the first three notes are played as a triplet but Noteworthy will not allow this. Is there some sort of ‘work around’ to get round this problem .  .

Tony

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #1 –
Attaching some scans of the problem areas would help. In my logic, 8th+16th+16th does not not make a triplet.
Registered user since 1996

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #2 –
The notes which are tripletized must be consecutive.  If you meant eighth sixteenth sixteenth eighth as a group it would work.  There is the old workaround of temporarily increasing the tempo by a factor of 5/4 and forcing a beam on those notes, but that gets old in a hurry if you have to do this a bunch of times.
Since 1998

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #3 –
I am going to recheck the original score. My copy is very ancient!

Tony

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #4 –
The entire score is at IMSLP (5.46 MB pdf)
The issues seem to relate to the 2nd movement which wanders between 2/4 and 6/8 without TimeSig changes. It is fairly common for pieces of this difficulty to omit them. I don't see any rhythmic oddities.

I suspect the "5 beat" measure is at the top of page 25. I would render it as:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #5 –
Rick,

In the IMSLP score the difficult bar is the 4th from the beginning on the top line of page 23 . It is in fact all eighth notes 2 + 3,     5 in a bar meant for 4.

Tony

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #6 –
Quote from: tony smedley –
In the IMSLP score the difficult bar is the 4th from the beginning on the top line of page 23
You are looking at the 3.80 MB score. It is the same measure that I referenced in the 5.46 MB score.
To me, the second grouping is so obviously a triplet that I would play it that way on a sight reading and think little about it.
Registered user since 1996

Re: A problem with Widor.

Reply #7 –
Rick,

OK! Thanks!

Tony