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Quintuplets

Another moan, and you must be getting  tired of me.
I see the subject of quintuplets (and n-tuplets) has been much worked over. I can't see any reasonable workaround.
Why oh why did I try to set "The Robin's Return" ?

Robin

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #1 –
Well, I have fudged it, using 16, 32, 16, 32, 16  (16 = 1/16th note duration &c)

Doesn't sound too bad I suppose! Playing it would be pretty hard for a poor player like me.

Robin

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #2 –
Have you checked out this user tip on the subject?
Since 1998

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #3 –
Thanks but I'm not brave enough to try that! It doesn't sound too bad as it is: and the music isn't exactly Mozart quality.
I take my hat off to those who invent these workarounds though.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #4 –
Quote from: RobinKiwi –
Thanks but I'm not brave enough to try that! It doesn't sound too bad as it is: and the music isn't exactly Mozart quality.
I take my hat off to those who invent these workarounds though.
Blush! Thank you.
Since 1998

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #5 –
Quote
Another moan, and you must be getting  tired of me.

I have to admit I was bemused by your second identical complaint about having to do things when you paid for the program.  I'm sure most of us have felt that way at one time or another, Robinkiwi.

However, one of the magic features of NWC is that it is very inexpensive and there's a workaround for almost everything, if the program doesn't handle it natively.  The second magic feature is this user forum, where someone will almost be able to help another person with developing a solution. The third magic feature is the very shallow learning curve.  The fourth is the ease with which you can perform basic and medium complexity tasks.

Take a chance on Warren's tip.  It takes longer to read it than to do it; it just sounds complicated.

So, welcome to the world of NWC; it gets easier the more you use it, and it's a pretty good program at the price.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #6 –
My personal workaround for this is now a little better: I halve the length of all the notes in the quintuplet and then dot the first, double dot the second, dot the third and so on. The bar length is correct and I defy anyone to tell the difference from a genuine quintuplet. However, though it sounds quite good it looks dreadful on the printed score!

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #7 –
Many of us use a second, hidden staff that has workarounds like this on it to get the playback to sound right. Create something that looks right on the visible staff and then mute it so the sounds won't conflict.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #8 –
Hidden rests can keep the looks working on the visible, now silent staff.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #9 –
Check out the attachment on the user tip and, on Page Setup, Contents; check the group labeled "Hidden".  That will show how the pentuplet (and especially other parts) are played and displayed.  The attachment is adapted from the first few measures of Meditation by Massenet, also on Scriptorium.
Since 1998
 

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #10 –
Strictly speaking just about hidden notes that serve only to produce audio playback of quintuplets:

The tempo change is ingenious, and it gets exact results.  But I can see it being intimidating to use, primarily since it seems to necessitate changing all other staffs to compensate.  For 5 equal notes played in the time of 4 quarter notes, alternating between dotted-eighth and double-dotted-eighth is also ingenious, as it is quite simple to implement.

If one wants more exact playback there are other options.  Say that a quarter note is a duration of 192.  Then the ideal duration of each of the 5 quintuplet notes is 153.6, which of course is impossible in NWC.  The workaround above gives 3 notes of 144 and 2 notes of 168, for the correct total of 768.  There are other combinations, of various complexity, which brings down the standard deviation, while keeping the total exact.

In the attachment, Staff-1 shows perhaps the simplest improvement, yielding 4 notes of 156 and 1 note of 144.  The best approximation is in Staff-6 and Staff-7, yielding 3 notes of 154 and 2 notes of 153.  The simplest solution, in Staff-0, uses no smaller than eighth notes, so it can be scaled down all the way to 5 notes in the time of 4 32nd notes.  Many of my solutions cannot be scaled down at all, since they involve 64th notes.

Recommendations, in increasing order of complexity and exactness:
  • Staff-0: single note per quintuplet note, scales down to 32nd notes only.
  • Staff-1: two tied notes per quintuplet note, scales down to 16th notes only.
  • Staff-5: three tied notes per quintuplet note, scales down to 8th notes only.
  • Staff-6,7: three tied notes per quintuplet note, does not scale down past quarter notes.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #11 –
Your workaround also flies.  I had only broken down a whole note into 192 parts for my conversion page, but was thinking of just the existing limitations when I set it up.  For example, you might pair a double dotted 8th with a 32nd note but why allow a double dotted 32nd note when the 128th isn't available.

The following is used in my abc page:
Quote
var NoteLengths = [ [2,"64th,Triplet"], [3,"64th"], [4,"32nd,Triplet"], [6,"32nd"], [8,"16th,Triplet"], [9,"32nd,Dotted"],
    [12,"16th"], [16,"8th,Triplet"], [18,"16th,Dotted"], [21,"16th,DblDotted"], [24,"8th"], [32,"4th,Triplet"], [36,"8th,Dotted"],
    [42,"8th,DblDotted"], [48,"4th"], [64,"Half,Triplet"], [72,"4th,Dotted"], [84,"4th,DblDotted"], [96,"Half"], [128,"Whole,Triplet"],
    [144,"Half,Dotted"], [168,"Half,DblDotted"], [192,"Whole"], [288,"Whole,Dotted"] ]
Multiplying all of those numbers by 4 would give your 768 beatlets per measure and allow shorter notes to be dotted or double dotted.  In the existing table, breaking 48 of these notelets (quarter note) into five nearly equal parts gives 10,9,10,9,10.  The 9's are easy (32nd,Dotted), but putting together a string of notes adding up to 10 seems impossible since stand alone triplets (or pairs of them) aren't allowed.

The attachment is yours except it is in version 2.1 instead of the testing version.
Since 1998

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
The following is used in my abc page:
IMO, you should change it to: 4th=192 and scale the others accordingly.
NWC also allows 64th,DblDotted, not to mention this fine mess:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:64th,DblDotted,Triplet=First|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:64th,DblDotted,Triplet|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:64th,Triplet=End|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
If one wants more exact playback there are other options
Like this one (for 5 8th notes in place of 4):
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th,Dotted,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
It will scale down to 16th's.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #14 –
Quote
Like this one (for 5 8th notes in place of 4):

I think I covered that solution in Staff-1 of my examples!  It's just scaled down from quarters to 8ths, and I'd mentioned that that staff could be scaled down to 8ths, or 16ths.  It does however show me that I should have simplified the last of the 5 groups in my Staff-1, from two tied dotted 16ths to just the one dotted 8th!  (Although you added a tenuto to the last note, to perhaps give it some of the length that it lacks over the other 4 notes - but it can't stop the next measure from starting "prematurely"?)

And I agree with Rick, that for NWC, 192 is definitely the natural unit for quarter notes.  In other words, 12 is the natural unit for the smallest possible note.  (To properly handle double-dots, it must be a multiple of 4, and to properly handle triplets, it must be a multiple of 3.)  Since NWC only goes down to 64ths, 192 is the quarter unit, but Music XML goes down to 256ths, so 768 is the quarter unit there!  (Although Music XML has a "divisions" value, to divide down the units on-the-fly, when so much granularity is unneeded, allowing smaller magnitudes - but NWC has no such "divider".)

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
I think I covered that solution in Staff-1 of my examples!
I see it now. I was working in 2.1 and couldn't open your file to check it.

For some instruments, you will want a consistent note on to note off time. You can get that with this:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:16th,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
If a RestChord could be beamed, it would look pretty good as well. Centering a text "5" on the beam is another matter.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #16 –
Very ingenious to make use of rest chords here!  It allows (untied) rests to get the note-start timing correct, and independently, it allows single notes to get the (uniform) note-on length correct.  I like it a lot.

Some minor improvements though.  Mainly, you can't use an eighth note for the note-on length here, since it is trying to simulate 4/5ths of an eighth note!  The note-on alone would practically exceed the total note on+off time we want.  I've changed the notes to dotted sixteenths, which seems to give the best note on/off ratio (combinations of double-dotting/staccato/tenuto didn't do any better).  I've also swapped the order of the rest pairs, so the smaller rest is in the rest chord, and split the last rest in half.  This allows all the rest chords (including the "odd" one) to be identical, so one can be created and copied to all the others.  Finally, I've moved the "odd" rest from the end of the group to the middle, so each note start is as close as possible to its intended time.

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:16th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:16th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:16th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:16th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:16th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #17 –
Of course, the above assumes this is for a hidden audio solution, with any visible muted solution layered on.  If one wants an audio solution that can also serve as the visible solution, and one can live with some mangling of note start and note on times, the eighth notes are superior.  Some sort of text bracket and a "5" are all that is needed!  The eighth note version with identical rest chords is below (not sure though if moving the "odd" rest here helps the mangling or makes it worse).

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,Dotted|Opts:Stem=Up,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #18 –
For a visible solution that also acts as an audio solution, the best answer is still hidden tempo changes before and after a group of five eighth notes. Other staves will have to be adjusted to match (hidden rests and/or hidden tied notes in the corresponding measures), and if you're planning to use audit barlines, hidden changes of meter at the beginning and end of the measure will also be necessary (best to use these even if you aren't going to audit the barlines). This has always been my preferred method. Looks like this:

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Tempo|Tempo:120|Pos:8
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-6
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-5
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:18/16|Visibility:Never
|Tempo|Tempo:150|Pos:9|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Text|Text:" 5"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:7|Justify:Left|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Tempo|Tempo:120|Pos:9|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-6
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-7
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-6
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Simple to do, really....

Bill

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #19 –
Shouldn't that time sig be 18/16 ?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Shouldn't that time sig be 18/16 ?
I see 5 8th's + 2 4th's = 9/8. The horizontal placement of the "5" leaves much to be desired ...
Registered user since 1996

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #21 –
Yeah, it should be 9/8. (Or 18/16: same diff.) I pushed it out in a hurry and should have checked it more carefully; I'll go back and do the edit as soon as I post this. But I do think the horizontal placement of the 5 is correct, Rick. It's centered over the middle note of the quintuplet. However, if you don't like it, that's easy enough to fix, too: change it from center-justified to left-justified and stick a space before the 5 in the text object.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #22 –
OK - fixed. I moved the 5 also. Better? ;-)

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #23 –
What about moving this thread to "tips & tricks"?

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #24 –
Hi William,

As I said above:
Quote
The tempo change is ingenious, and it gets exact results.  But I can see it being intimidating to use, primarily since it seems to necessitate changing all other staffs to compensate.

You may find it easy to calculate the required tempo and time signature changes for the primary staff (it makes my brain hurt :-), but is it so easy to make compensatory changes to all the other staffs?!

I've also taken a look at the MIDI file generated by your solution.  To my limited understanding of MIDI, the tempo change does not seem to make it into the file, and playback outside of NWC will be incorrect?!

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
you can't use an eighth note for the note-on length here, since it is trying to simulate 4/5ths of an eighth note!  The note-on alone would practically exceed the total note on+off time we want.
Agreed, but for some instruments it works fine.

I don't want to belabor this since it rarely happens, but upon discovering a note on, NoteWorthy should flush any pending note offs (with the same note #) from the playback queue.
Quote from: Randy Williams –
I've also taken a look at the MIDI file generated by your solution.  To my limited understanding of MIDI, the tempo change does not seem to make it into the file, and playback outside of NWC will be incorrect?!
Playback sounds correct, the tempo change goes into the MIDI file:
Quote from: mf2txtXP (snippet)
0:0:0 Tempo 500000
0:0:0 TimeSig 4/4 24 8
1:0:0 Tempo 400000
1:0:0 TimeSig 18/16 24 8
1:10:0 Tempo 500000
2:0:0 TimeSig 4/4 24 8
2:0:0 Meta TrkEnd
Registered user since 1996

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #26 –
I see the tempo change now - it wasn't so clear in the midi dump with the program I'm using.
Quote
 beats 120.00000 /* 500000 microsec/beat */
  beats 120.00000 /* 500000 microsec/beat */
  tact 4 / 4 24 8
  4/4;beats 150.00000 /* 400000 microsec/beat */
  tact 18 / 16 24 8
  5/8;beats 120.00000 /* 500000 microsec/beat */
  2/4;tact 4 / 4 24 8

If one wants to avoid all the tempo and time signature compenstaion across all staffs, I've attached my best attempt at a single-staff audio/video solution to William's example, and my best attempt at a layered staff solution.  Neither are great, but the layered solution isn't so bad IMHO (note that it requires all staffs to add some extra note space to the third beat).

Edit - I'd attached nwctxt files instead of nwc, assuming this would be more compatible with 2.1 (over my 2.5).  I think now I was wrong, and I've removed the Locale and Editor lines to (hopefully) be compatible this time.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #27 –
Randy, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. The calculations are simple. (He says, knowing he got one of them wrong...but I was rushing it. ;-)

A quintuplet adds one extra eighth note (5 in the space of 4), so the hidden time sig also needs to add one extra eighth note (4/4 is equivalent to 8/8, so adding an extra eighth makes it 9/8). Nothing tricky about that.

Nothing particularly tricky about the tempo change, either: you need to play 5 notes in the time of 4, so the new tempo needs to be 5/4ths of the old one. So you multiply the original tempo by 5/4ths, which you can do either by multiplying the tempo by 5 and dividing the result by 4 or dividing the tempo by 4 and then multiplying the result by 5. I find the second way easier: in my example, it goes 120/4=30: 30x5=150. Nuttin' to it. Really. And I find the results more satisfactory visually than either of your methods (which seem considerably harder, to me, than mine does).

Bill

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #28 –
I see I didn't address what you said was your "primary" concern - difficulties in adjusting the other staves in the score. So here's a bottom staff to go with my upper staff:

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:18/16|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Rest|Dur:16th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Rest|Dur:16th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Does that look so difficult to do? It's just a matter of adding a hidden rest after each note, with the values of all of the rests adding up to the value of the extra time in the measure; in this case, one eighth note. (You do have to make sure that the length of each rest is proportional to the length of its preceding note. But since quintuplets are usually played against a regular rhythm in the other staves, that isn't a very complex process very often.)

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #29 –
Sorry I'm not so bright, William - I didn't consider adding extra hidden rests to each affected note (probably because that reduces the note-on time from what it should be for those notes).  It is simpler than what I was thinking, which was to either add a tied note to each note to truly extend the note (but then you can't hide the tie), or to change the note itself to extend it (but then you can't hide the dot e.g.).  If one can live with shortening the notes, and one does not have too many other staffs to change, I can see the tempo and time signature change being good now.  Thanks for the example!  (Sorry you didn't like my layering example - I think layering is very handy and I use it quite often - I just wish one could layer a particular measure, without having to layer all other measures up to that point, for spacing)

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #30 –
You can cancel the note off by using hidden pedal down and pedal up commands. People usually think of them as piano commands, but they work with any instrument. That being said, my preferred way of doing it would be to use tied notes in place of the rests. But Eric hasn't implemented the visibility/invisibility attribute choice for slurs and ties yet.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #31 –
You can make a note sound for any length of time, while keeping a quite different visual appearance.
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Instrument|Name:"Clarinet"|Patch:71|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:8|Visibility:Always
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Muted|Color:1
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted|Color:1
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Muted notes are in red. The first suppresses the note-off, and the second suppresses the note-on. Obviously you'd want to hide the grace notes and use default colours in the real world.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #32 –
William - I agree with you on using the pedals for non-piano!  I use them regularly for handbells, to simulate an "LV" (let vibrate).

Peter - That's an ingenious way to independently control note on and note off!  Using this concept from you, and Rick's rest chords, I think we have a pretty good solution for quintuplets now.  I've attached a version of William's example below for comment.

The solution looks intimidating, but it really isn't.  There's basically a stock sequence of 6 objects per quintuplet member:

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:32nd,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Down,Muted,HideRest|Dur2:8th|Pos2:0
|Rest|Dur:32nd|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:64th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

  • 1. Turn note on with hidden grace note.
  • 2. Create visible note with muted rest chord.
  • 3. Pad rest from rest chord to fill out note on time.
  • 4. Set up for "no-break" note off with hidden grace note.
  • 5. Turn note off with hidden grace note.
  • 6. Rest to provide note off time.

To create a quintuplet, all one has to do is cut and paste this stock sequence 5 times.  Then select each sequence in turn and ctrl-shift-arrow to move the set of 4 notes en masse to the proper note.  Then select the 32nd rests in the middle of the 2nd and 4th sequences one at a time, and change them from 32nd rests to double-dotted 64th rests.  Finally, add some sort of text "5" bracket.  (Alternatively, one can cut and paste a stock sequence already having all 5 sets, to avoid having to adjust the 2nd and 4th set rests.)

The visible portion would of course be better if we could beam the eight notes.  The audio portion is pretty close to perfect, given that a "real" solution would still be off too, due to divide-by-5 round-offs in MIDI.  The solution I give offers a 67-to-11 (or 64-to-11) note on-to-off ratio, which is pretty good compared to a regular eighth which is 80-to-16.

I'll take a stab at a user tool to automate this, and post it soon for comment.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #33 –
I'm afraid my previous observation ("....mountain out of a molehill....") still applies, Randy. ;-)

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #34 –
Hi William - I'm terribly sorry to be bothering you about this.  It's a topic that interests me, and I'm trying to collaborate with others of similar interest, to obtain the "final answer" for quintuplets.  I thought we could post this answer in the tips and tricks (minus all the discussion to get to that point) for someone to perhaps find and use in the future.  If no one ever uses it, then you are right about me wasting everyone's time.  I wish I could direct this post to only those very few who may be interested, but I know of no way to do that.

I've attached a quick little user tool.  It finds a text object containing "quintuplet" and converts it and the following 5 eighth notes into a quintuplet.  I'd expand it to 5 quarters and/or 5 sixteenths if there were any interest.

Re: Quintuplets

Reply #35 –
I was unable to download the "quintuplet maker"
dheo