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Topic: NWC Newbie Presents... (Read 10139 times) previous topic - next topic

NWC Newbie Presents...

Not necessarily my first, but what I consider my most complete track.  In this one I managed to get the measure numbers to line up correctly (ignoring the pick-up) and the ties and bars to act appropriately.

I'm posting this looking for you long-time users to give your thoughts on the piece.

Notating the piece by hand is easy for me, but I am just getting used to NWC.  This is for a barbershop quartet, where I'll be arranging songs and whatnot.  Sometimes the music we sing off of is hand written and copies of copies or copies, etc.  Being able to produce quality printed music is key, as well as making .mp3 learning tracks for individuals with their part in the left channel and the rest of the quartet in the right.  (Allowing them to use their radio's balance controls to first learn their part, then sing their part with just the other 3 parts - or anything else in the middle.)

For those not familiar with the song, a youtube version is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWXnWIDy8o

(Note - these printed tracks and .midi/.mp3 tracks are NOT intended to teach intepretation.  Often times in Barbershop notes are held longer for effect or due to an audience's response.)

P.S. - Does anyone know of any plug-in or something that I can use with NWC so instead of just noted being banged out by a electric piano it will sing the words, too?  I know it's possible, someone else in the chorus has a program that will do it.  The problem is that I don't have that notation software, and I'm in love with NWC so I'd like to make it work here.
Barbershopping the world, one song at a time...

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #1
P.P.S. - The double bar in measure 32 signifies the Barbershop "Tag."  I just thought of a dirty way of notating that but I wonder if there's a "proper" way to do it.  The dirty way would be to put it in the Tenor lyrics line on the quarter note in 32.  (TAG:) There's surely a more proper way, right?

P.P.P.S. - If I put staff labels on all 4 parts, only the Tenor and Baritone parts are labled when the staff is layered and printed.  Is there a way so all 4 could be seen?  (Tenor, Lead, Baritone, Bass)
Barbershopping the world, one song at a time...

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #2
Welcome to the NWC Community!

I sang barbershop a long time before I started using NWC.  There is nothing I know of to have the words sung--under "Ensemble" you have your choice of Choir Aahs, Choir Oohs, and Syn. Voice.

I didn't experiment here, but for any part you can F2, select Midi, and stereo pan to put a given part all or partially to the left or right speaker.

Note the extra accidental spacing in measures 7, 8, & 10.  Extra note spacing was used in m. 14 and 31 where notes from the layered ten. and lead were walking on each other.  Select a note, then Cntl/E to be able to change extra note or accidental spacing.  By selecting m. 1-34 that way and chosing Notes for the tenor part, I changed the lyric syllable of those notes to "Never" and took out your underlines in the tenor lyrics (of course your method also works).  That might be helpful when transcribing other songs when the tenor doesn't need anything special until the tag like this one.

If you don't mind having Tenor & Lead (of Bari & Bass) on the same line, you can put them on the Staff Label of the top labeled staff.

I also added a ritard near the end and an example of a scoop up to the tenor's last note.

P.S. Was that at Disneyland or Disney World?
Since 1998

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #3
Warren,

I should have clarified myself better.  I am quite aware of the different instruments available in the stock version, was more wondering if there were any nifty plugins or something that could make it happen.  I'll see if I can't find some tracks on my computer as an example.  I noticed you changed it from piano to Aahs, which I use for some songs.  I pretty much start all as piano though.

I have figured out how to pan correctly.  I've attached the learning track I have for Keep The Whole World Singing as an example.

Thank you for the tips about the spacing!  I hadn't known those were options so that is 100% awesome!  Also, the trick with the lyrics will certainly save me some time.

As far as the labeling of the staves, I thought of your method, but was hoping that I could get them stacked.  It's not a huge problem if I can't, just one of those nifty things I'd like to be able to do.  It's not like the four of us won't know which part is which.  Finishing touches, persay :-)

The tempo changes is something I haven't dabbled with yet, but with your enticement I will have to.  Man, it just sounds so much better!  That, and the scoop on the tenor part is...  amazing.  I've never heard that sung with My Wild Irish Rose before!  I may have to suggest that to our Tenor and see how it sounds with jsut the 4 of us!

(It's Disneyland, in California.  That video isn't of me, however.)

Thank you for the warm welcome!
Barbershopping the world, one song at a time...

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #4
G'day Michael,
firstly, may I add my welcome too.

Now, to get you rlyrics actually sung - I know there is a synth somewhere that will do it, but I can't for the life of me remember its name.  I even did a search of this forum but couldn't turn it up and I'm sure this is where I first heard about it.

So, I'm sorry but I can't point you in the right direction ...  :(

Now,
P.P.S. - The double bar in measure 32 signifies the Barbershop "Tag."  I just thought of a dirty way of notating that but I wonder if there's a "proper" way to do it.  The dirty way would be to put it in the Tenor lyrics line on the quarter note in 32.  (TAG:) There's surely a more proper way, right?

P.P.P.S. - If I put staff labels on all 4 parts, only the Tenor and Baritone parts are labled when the staff is layered and printed.  Is there a way so all 4 could be seen?  (Tenor, Lead, Baritone, Bass)

Both of these could be resolved with simple text entries - see attachment.  Note that the tenor staff has a label that is all spaces - this is to create some white space so the labels have room to move, so to speak.  I've also added section close barlines to the end of each staff and set a "system break" parameter on them (actually only needed on the top one) to force justification - a neat trick that can "pretty up" a score.

Note this is in NWC2 format - I tried to export to NWC1.75 but it kept overriding my staff label mods.  If you need an NWC1.75 version let me know and I see what I can do.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #5
Greetings Micheal;
     You have certainly received a much higher caliber advice form Warren and Lawrie which I cannot hope to compete with. The one thing I will suggest is that as a vetern of many years of large and small choral groups of all types I have always preferred seeing my part with it's lyrics on a staff by itself. Just much easier to concentrate on, especial when sight reading a new piece. When that isn't possible I have always preferred having the lyrics above for the tenor voice, and below the staff for the bass voice, leaving the lead and baritone between the grand staff as they are. This avoids having to scan past the notes on the other voice to find the lyrics. Definitely makes a little more work for the arranger, but a great help for the performers having both the notes and the lyrics for there part in the same sight line.
     I have attached an example. It also show the use of a simple test entry for the (Tag:). Welcome to the forum and best of luck in your endevours.

Regards
Keith
Illigitimi Non Carborundum

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #6
Would help if I attached the nwc file to the post so you could see it. Don't even have the bad excuse of it being to late in the day to get around my forgetfulness.:o)
Illigitimi Non Carborundum

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #7
I don't know of a plug-in for NWC 2 or 1.75 that will sing the words.  The closest thing I know of is by Myriad Software, a plug-in called Virtual Singer that works with either their Melody Assistant or Harmony Assistant (the more full-featured version).  It does a decent job, and in your choice of several languages, too, though still a little robot-sounding.  I don't remember the web site offhand but Google "harmony assistant myriad" and you should find it.  The free trial version will allow you to try all the features to make a fair evaluation.  I found it anything but intuitive, though, even though you can choose to use keyboard shortcuts from a number of other music software applications, including NWC.  The full registered version of Harmony Assistant, last I checked, was $65 US.

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #8
You guys really deliver.  Thank you all for your help, and your input.

Lawrie:  Thank you for the note about text entries.  Definately something I'll use...

Keith:  For learning, as a rule we learn the notes first singing "la la" or "lu lu" or some other innate sound.  Once we can get the lock and ring we integrate the words, and once those are mastered we work on actual intrepretation.  I understand what you are saying, but I think once we get around to learning the words we shouldn't be looking at notes very much at all.

Milton:  That's it!  Harmony Assistant is the one that our other member uses.  I, however, am opposed to purchasing more software so I guess I'll just deal with what I have.  It would be cool, however, if a lyrics-to-music option was integrated.  *shrug*

Again, thank you for all of your warm welcomes!  (This is by no means closing the conversation, if you have other input I certainly welcome it!)
Barbershopping the world, one song at a time...

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #9
Ok, so I'm trying to do a slide or scoop, or whatever the technical name is...

I have...

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End


How do I make that slide to the F?
Barbershopping the world, one song at a time...

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #10
The scoop was done with a Multi Point Controller: Pitch Bend  For this demo I scoop up about a half step in the space of two eighth notes.  To print it out requires a special font and the line or empty "slur" would be entered as a text comment.  Do a select and Cntl/E on the MPC in the following or in my original attachment. Good luck!
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.0)
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2009 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1|AllowLayering:Y
|Font|Style:Staff Italic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:Staff Bold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:Staff Lyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:Page Title Text|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:Page Text|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:Page Small Text|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User 6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Style:Standard|Layer:N|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Synth Voice"|Patch:54|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Bar
|MPC|Controller:pitch|Style:Linear Sweep|TimeRes:Eighth|SweepRes:32|Pt1:0,3925|Pt2:1,5205|Pt3:1,8192|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Since 1998

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #11
Ok, so I'm trying to do a slide or scoop, or whatever the technical name is...

I have...

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End


How do I make that slide to the F?

Slide to the F...  on Pos:2...  Bass clef I assume?

You need a "Pitch Bend" Multi Point Controller before the note(s) in question.  The one from Warren's example of your initial file looks like this:
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|MPC|Controller:pitch|Style:Linear Sweep|TimeRes:Eighth|SweepRes:32|Pt1:0,3925|Pt2:1,5205|Pt3:1,8192|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Tina Billet (RIP) created a very good guide to MPC's some time ago.  I think it was created using examples from NWC1.75 but is still a valid resource.  I thought it was available on the Scripto but I can't find it - perhaps Richard (the Scripto webmaster) can locate it.

Arrgh, I got caught up with a phone call and Warren posted before I could get back - well bad luck, ya gettin' my reply anyhow <grin>

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #12
BTW Michael, the Scripto is a very useful resource.  It can be found here:
http://nwc-scriptorium.org/
in case you hadn't come across it before.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #13
snip ...
Tina Billet (RIP) created a very good guide to MPC's some time ago.  I think it was created using examples from NWC1.75 but is still a valid resource.  I thought it was available on the Scripto but I can't find it - perhaps Richard (the Scripto webmaster) can locate it.

Yes I have it somewhere and I agree that it should be available on the Scriptorium. But note that it was a guide to dynamics, velocity and volume rather than MPCs. Unless of course, she did another document about mpcs that I do not have.

The dynamics document will be on the Scripto soon.

Lawrie may have been referring to the mpc exercises with examples that are contained in the NoteWorthy version 1.75 command manual.
The section that has the mpc explanation and exercises is on the Scripto here and starts on page 40.


Rich.

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #14
Welcome to the Community!

I am happy to see another barbershopper here. To produce high-quality barbershop scores you need a set of tricks. This community has helped me to solve all issues I have had, some of the solutions are quite sophisticated. We are fortunate to have several gurus here, who always are willing to help.

--Christian
NWC on Ubuntu Linux/Wine

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #15
At the print preview page, mpc is invisible. So if you want to print, this might help:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Muted
|MPC|Controller:pitch|Style:Linear Sweep|TimeRes:Eighth|SweepRes:32|Pt1:0,3925|Pt2:1,5205|Pt3:1,8192|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
NWC User since 2008

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #16
G'day Rich,
Yes I have it somewhere and I agree that it should be available on the Scriptorium. But note that it was a guide to dynamics, velocity and volume rather than MPCs. Unless of course, she did another document about mpcs that I do not have.

The dynamics document will be on the Scripto soon.

Lawrie may have been referring to the mpc exercises with examples that are contained in the NoteWorthy version 1.75 command manual.
The section that has the mpc explanation and exercises is on the Scripto here and starts on page 40.

I've sent you a copy of the guide I was referring to.  It doesn't seem to have Tina's name in it, but I'm sure it was hers.  It does refer to dynamics in the examples but it is titled:
Multi-point controllers.  A beginners guide.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: NWC Newbie Presents...

Reply #17
Thanks Lawrie, received.  This is a different document and I don't remember seeing this one.

Certainly looks like Tina's style.

Both documents will be published on the Scriptorium later today.
Rich.