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Topic: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument! (Read 51177 times) previous topic - next topic

MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

You all know that channel 10 makes percussion sounds.
Even has sample.

<Image Link>
This is one of the NWC samples, Drumref.


You may know that changing instrument of channel 10.
Of course, if you change instruments, nothing happens as you know.


But, THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!


You can make sounds such as laughter, bird tweeting, dog barking, gun shotting, etc. with channel 10.
This is my composition sample. Click the URL, please.

http://tlds.dothome.co.kr/mid/nwc/untitled-37.nwc


Two staff lines at the bottom are channel 10.
Instrument patch of their properties is TRUMPET.

<Image Link>
The under two staff lines: 'Composed by Sesirine', 'http:/tlds.dothome.co.kr'.


You can change instrument patch of channel 10 in trumpet.


Now, I've made another samples for you!
(Click the URL, please.)

http://tlds.dothome.co.kr/sesirine/090720.nwc



NOW, you can make various sound by changing patch of channel 10, CAN'T YOU?
NWC User since 2008

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #1
I'm confused. I played both your NWC 1.75 samples. I then removed the Trumpet patch from channel 10. The playback was the same.


You can use patches on channel 10 to change the Drum Kit.
These are available for 'Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth':
Quote from: dls_gm.nwcitree snippet (extracted from gm.dls)
\Drum Kits
Standard=0
Room=8
Power=16
Electronic=24
TR-808=25
Jazz=32
Brush=40
Orchestra=48
SFX=56
Registered user since 1996

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #2
   I'm confused, too - but for a different reason.

   Try this.  Take the harmonic scale example, and duplicate the staff to a second staff.  Set both staves to channel 10.  Then add a crotchet space at the start of the second staff, so as to stagger the notes.

   Now, normally whatever instrument each staff is set to they will when played together both only play the instrument of the second staff, because they're on the same channel.  But ...

   ... first, interpose between every note on both staves a crotchet rest FOLLOWED BY an instrument change - to a trumpet on the top staff and to a piano on the bottom staff.  The rests on each staff should be in line with the notes on the other staff; the FOLLOWING Instrument Change re-sets both channels to the new instrument for the next note on one of them while the other channel is silent.  Then change the tempo to something slower - 60, say - and play.

   On my set-up both staves play the same up to about the 13th note, and then ... they play differently!

   Strange, eh?

   MusicJohn, 20/Jul/09


Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #3
Strange, eh?
Not really. You are switching between the Standard Kit and the SFX Kit. For some notes, these are identical, for other notes, they are different.
Registered user since 1996

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #4
   Hmmm.  I wasn't aware that I was switching between "kits" (whatever they are), just from using a piano to using a trumpet - I don't understand why that should make any difference.  Can you explain, please?  And ... would using a violin or a bassoon be different again?

   MusicJohn, 20/Jul/09

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #5
Can you explain, please?
Good explanation of GS drum kits here (pages 7 - 11): http://www.7not.org/files/sblive.pdf (1.34MB)
Keep in mind that NWC2's patches range from 0 to 127, rather than the 1 to 128 convention used in the pdf.
The nwcitree snippet I provided above shows the translation.

Edit: fixed link, added size
Registered user since 1996

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #6
   Ah!  Having engaged brain, I think I now understand what you were telling us - that is, that there are several different drum kits notionally available - I didn't know that! - and that they can be selected by choosing which instrument patch is used as the notional driver for the channel 10 staff - I didn't know that, either.  Thus, instrument No: 0 selects the "Standard" kit, instrument no: 8 selects the "Room" kit, instrument no: 16 selects the "Power" kit, and so on.  The trumpet is instrument no: 56, and that selects the "sfx" kit.

   I live, and I learn.  Thanks, Rick.

   MusicJohn, 20/Jul/09


Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #7
Hi, MusicJohn -

Remember that the patch assignments are only by standard.  We refer to it as piano or trumpet, because the GM standard has assigned those numbers to those instruments.  But MIDI doesn't care what instrument is assigned to which number; it only cares about the number.  I have soundfont files that are NON-GM-standard, and so I need to know which instrument corresponds to which number.  So for channel 10, it's not so much that the sfx kit is the trumpet patch, it's really more that the GM-standard called for patch #56 on channel 10 to be the sfx drum kit and on all other channels to be the trumpet sound.  But there's nothing that could keep me from, for example, making a soundfont file (or having a hardware synth or whatever) that assigns the patch number to different instruments.

That standard makes our lives easier, so we don't have to remember the numbers associated with instruments and most software has adopted that standard.  But a lot of people use custom sounds that might show on the screen a "trumpet", when in fact you are listening to a "clarinet" (for example).

Wikipedia has some good info on MIDI.
John

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #8
The information you are sharing i did not know it before.

So i adore this helpful information.




Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #9
Also may depend on which synth you are using.  Yamaha for example has several variations of GM sounds on higher banks that non-XG synths will simply play back as the GM sound.

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #10
NWC MIDI channel 10 on the drum is Is there room for change.

Eg Drum akgijyo virtual modules written in the instrument (Roland VSC based)



1-3 basic instruments (Standard)

9 rooms

10 Hip-Hop

11 Jungle

12 Techno

17 power

25 Electronic

26 TR-808

27 dance

28 CR-78

29 TR-606

30 TR-707

31 TR-909

Jazz 33

41 brushes

49 Opera / Orchestra

50 eteunik

51 kick, a little north

53 Japanese traditional percussion (Asia)

54 cymbals & Applause

57 teuksueum (SFX)

58 SFX2

59 SFX3


128 CM-64/32L (Roland MT32)

Not only outside of this online.

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #11
G'day D.J.
I'm not sure what you're asking...

Percussion selection is synth specific.  It has nothing directly to do with NWC.

Using channel 10: from your list, if you select say, patch 50, you will get the "eteunik" set of sounds.  Just remember that your list is "1" based and NWC patch (instrument) selection is "0" based, so you would actually need patch 49 in NWC to get 50 from your list.

Hope this helps.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #12
Eg Drum akgijyo virtual modules written in the instrument (Roland VSC based) <snip>


I now use Roland VSC, too,
but this topic was based on 'Microsoft Midi Mapper', or 'Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth'.

How 'bout Midi Yokes?
NWC User since 2008

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #13
G'day Sesirine:
You said:
Quote
I now use Roland VSC, too,
but this topic was based on 'Microsoft Midi Mapper', or 'Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth'.
How 'bout Midi Yokes?

MIDI Mapper and MIDI Yoke are not sound devices they only provide a path to the sound output device.
That device is the synth that produces the sound.
Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth, SB Live and Roland Virtual sound Canvas (VSC) are three such synths which can reproduce the Roland GS Drum Kit variations by selecting different Patches on Channel 10.
You can see from the table in Rick's link that the SB Live documents other drum sounds available using a combination of Bank and Patch.
Milton points out the Yamaha synths handle Drum kit variations differently in XG mode.

Lawrie said:
Quote
Percussion selection is synth specific.
As Lawries says sound devices respond to Channel 10 Patch commands in different ways - some synths (particularly the early Soundblaster cards) will just ignore them and reproduce the "Standard" drum sounds for all patches.
So it depends on which synth MIDI Mapper or MIDI Yoke addresses whether or not the Drum Kits are selectable.
You would need to read the spec. for the synth to find out how it handles Bank and Patch changes on Channel 10.

Barry Graham
Melbourne, Australia

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #14
I just modified my Patchtest to play channel 10 instead of 1.  The only thing that sounded different was patch 56, every other measure sounded the same.
Since 1998

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #15
Warren:

What is your sound device?

Barry Graham


Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #17
Whatever came with this computer (Windows 7, nearly a year old).  Is there a way to find out?
The standard Win7 softsynth is the good old Microsoft GS WaveTable SW...  It's a very old Roland soundset m$ licenced back in the win3 days.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - 'n I'm lernin' tubies now too

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #18
And how can you produce the whistle sound?

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #19
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:n0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:n1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

N.B. You can find a drum reference score in the NWC SAMPLES directory or, easier, through "open sample".

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #20
And how can you produce the whistle sound?
You might try this:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.0)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Instrument|Name:"Whistle"|Patch:78|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #21
Yes, that's whistle, but it's the "melodic" whistle made with the lips.
Since the thread title refers to MIDI Channel 10 I assume that what Calvin is looking for is the kind of whistle usually used for rhythm in Brasil.

Re: MIDI Channel 10 - Change Instrument!

Reply #22
Try note numbers 71 and 72 (B and C) in the Standard Drum Kit on Channel 10.