History?

Topic: History? (Read 15254 times) previous topic - next topic

History?

2008-10-05 01:56 pm

Is it possible to have more than 10 songs in history?

Carl

Re: History?

Reply #1 – 2008-10-05 03:35 pm

Quote from: Carl Bangs – 2008-10-05 01:56 pm

Is it possible to have more than 10 songs in history?

What do you mean by history, Carl?

Re: History?

Reply #2 – 2008-10-05 04:08 pm

Carl means the history of the files you have loaded into NoteWorthy Composer.
This can be accessed from the File Menu

Carl, I don't know of any way of increasing the "10" limit.

Re: History?

Reply #3 – 2008-10-05 04:55 pm

There does seem to be some extra space there that could be put to better use.

File History is kept in the registry under:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NoteWorthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\FileHistory

adding keys for "Title11" and "Name11" won't work as they are ignored by NWC2.

Ideally, NWC2 could update the registry before a User Tool was run. The Tool could then get the current Song Title and filename from the registry.

NWC2 would also be friendlier if it checked to make sure the file can be opened before displaying it in History. Any time I go looking for something in the Scriptorium, history gets filled with files that I can no longer access, displacing ones that I can access. Most frustrating ...

Re: History?

Reply #4 – 2008-10-05 05:19 pm

Quote from: Rick G.

NWC2 would also be friendlier if it checked to make sure the file can be opened before displaying it in History. Any time I go looking for something in the Scriptorium, history gets filled with files that I can no longer access, displacing ones that I can access. Most frustrating ...

Agreed. A similar problem develops if you are searching through several saved versions of a file to find the one you want to work on, or if you are simply reviewing some old files that you want to briefly look at but have no intention of doing anything with at that time. These all displace active files you want to keep in the history. This is a problem with most software, of course, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.

A possible answer, along with Rick's suggestion that NWC check to make sure a file is local and not in a temp directory before placing it in the history, might be to have "backup" and "restore" buttons in the history dialogue box. That way, one could make a copy of the history before going into the scripto, searching for the right version, etc., and restore it to its original state when through messing around. Just a thought....

Cheers,

Bill

Re: History?

Reply #5 – 2008-10-05 09:31 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2008-10-05 04:55 pm

NWC2 would also be friendlier if it checked to make sure the file can be opened before displaying it in History. Any time I go looking for something in the Scriptorium, history gets filled with files that I can no longer access, displacing ones that I can access. Most frustrating ...

Up to a point I agree. BUT I use a notebook that is sometimes connected to my LAN at home, then sometimes to my LAN at the office, then sometimes not connected at all. I would hate to lose my history from either LAN connection just 'cos I'm mobile OR connected to the other LAN... or even the LAN at church... Forgot about that one...

That said, I'm probably a minority here...

Re: History?

Reply #6 – 2008-10-05 11:49 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2008-10-05 09:31 pm

I would hate to lose my history from either LAN connection just 'cos I'm mobile OR connected to the other LAN... or even the LAN at church... Forgot about that one...

I chose my words rather carefully. I didn't say that unaccessable files should be removed. I just said that they should not be displayed. Nothing would prevent NWC2 from retaining 30-50 files internally in history. But when you want a display of history, it should just display a dozen or so of the most recent files that are accessable.

Re: History?

Reply #7 – 2008-10-06 07:04 am

I would like 30, or even 50 files to be displayed, It wou;d be most useful when I am printing a set of orchestra parts, or looking at samples, or files from the Scriptorum. Perhaps the number could be selected by the user.

Re: History?

Reply #8 – 2008-10-06 07:15 am

I wouldn't mind if the number of files in History increased, but I don't have a need for it myself. If the number increases, the list should be short enough to fit the one History window without scrolling.

If there is a change I'd suggest if feasible, it would be for the recently used files to be displayed in the File menu rather than the File History menu. If I were to prioritize my wish, I'd rank it 125th out of 100. W-A-a-a-y down the list.

Re: History?

Reply #9 – 2008-10-06 08:47 am

I have a folder called "NWC files" and every time I use NWC the song is eventually saved to that folder. Of course you have to watch the naming to avoid overwriting something. But I don't think I have ever used the History feature.
Tony

Re: History?

Reply #10 – 2008-10-06 10:22 am

I use history a lot

I would definitely like to see the count increases, but it should also be configurable - that way those with largish monitors could display more and those with smaller monitors could elect to display less.

That said, if it isn't comparatively trivial then the programming effort would likely be better spent on more important things.

Re: History?

Reply #11 – 2008-10-06 03:05 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2008-10-06 10:22 am

I would definitely like to see the count increases, but it should also be configurable - that way those with largish monitors could display more and those with smaller monitors could elect to display less.

I'm confused. History displays in a fixed size dialog box (539x361 pixels). The number of history lines that can be displayed doesn't change with monitor size or screen resolution.

It does look like 4-5 more lines could be added without needing a vertical scrollbar. I would support a change from 10 displayed history items to 14 (or 15).

I still don't see any advantage to displaying files that can't be accessed.

Re: History?

Reply #12 – 2008-10-06 05:54 pm

All of the above would be nice. That is: a longer history list, with the length user-configurable, moved into the "files" menu instead of in a separate box (this might also be user's choice), with files you can't currently access not displayed. And I'd still like to have a way to save the history and restore it, for times when I'm searching through a number of files for the right one, or messing around in the scripto: that creates lots of ephemeral history entries that get in the way of the useful ones.

And one more suggestion: a "purge" button for the history list to remove dead links while leaving live ones.

Like Lawrie, I use the history a lot, and making it more functional would definitely improve my NWC experience. So maybe it should be a little higher priority than some have suggested.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: History?

Reply #13 – 2008-10-06 10:46 pm

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2008-10-06 03:05 pm

I'm confused. History displays in a fixed size dialog box (539x361 pixels). The number of history lines that can be displayed doesn't change with monitor size or screen resolution.

It does look like 4-5 more lines could be added without needing a vertical scrollbar. I would support a change from 10 displayed history items to 14 (or 15).

True, but it needn't stay that way. If it was a scalable window those with more screen real estate could enlarge it to accommodate more entries...

Quote

I still don't see any advantage to displaying files that can't be accessed.

I concur.

Re: History?

Reply #14 – 2008-10-07 01:02 am

Bill wrote

Quote

a "purge" button for the history list to remove dead links while leaving live ones.

The "clear" button already does, but would fulfil your wish if the user could select the items to clear.

Re: History?

Reply #15 – 2008-10-07 01:22 am

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2008-10-06 03:05 pm

I still don't see any advantage to displaying files that can't be accessed.

I've been thinking about this...

In order to determine whether a file is accessible or not each file would need to be accessed. This is OK if a file is available or (re)moved from a local drive, but if it was on a network resource (internet or inaccessible LAN) then there would be a timeout penalty incurred as the OS attempts to access it. Multiply this by each unavailable file and it could add considerably to the time taken to display the history list.

Think I'd rather put up with inaccessible files in the list than wait an appreciable time for it to display...

Re: History?

Reply #16 – 2008-10-07 05:19 am

David, I haven't tested this currently (I'm sort of afraid to), but I think "clear" clears everything. I want something that will clear just the files that can no longer be found - the dead wood in the list. The text editor I use (an elderly freeware program called EditPad) has a command that does exactly this. I don't use it a lot, but it sure is handy when I need it.

Lawrie, see the paragraph directly above. EditPad does this job in next to no time - and has been doing it in next to no time since I first started using it 'way back in Win 3.1. I don't think loading time should be an issue.

Cheers,

Bill

<edit> OK. I reread your post and realized that you were talking about files accessed over the Internet. So time could be an issue.....

Re: History?

Reply #17 – 2008-10-07 05:54 am

G'day Bill,
interesting... Have you used editpad in conjunction with a network? Specifically, when files on a network (including the internet) are no longer available how long does editpad take to discover this? Timeouts on network resource access are different to local disk access, especially when the access method uses url's or unc paths.

E.G. a drive mapped to a resource, say F:, will respond quickly on a LAN if the drive is mapped but to a different location OR if the drive isn't mapped.
BUT a UNC, say \\fredsbox\fredsfiles\nwc\fredsnwcfile.nwc can take quite a long time while windows decides it can't find \\fredsbox.
Similarly, a url, say http: //fredscompany.com/fredsfiles/nwc/fredsnwcfile.nwc, takes time to fail if internet access is unavailable. (The space in the example after http: is deliberate to stop the forum software from making it a link)

Re: History?

Reply #18 – 2008-10-07 06:13 am

Bill, I wasn't suggesting exactly what you suggest, i.e., a button that will select only the lines that are no longer valid shortcuts to unavailable song files. My suggestion is more like the delete feature of Windows Explorer, where you can select several files in a folder, using the Control-Click, then just press delete once to get rid of the ones you selected while leaving the unselected ones in place.

Re: History?

Reply #19 – 2008-10-07 06:43 am

No, Lawrie, I haven't used EditPad in conjunction with a network. It's pretty much a pre-network piece of art - I don't know how it would respond. I don't have a network set up at home to test it on.

David, it wouldn't quite fulfil my wish if the user could select items to clear via cntrl-click. The user would have to remember which ones were dead - a task I do not always find easy. With EditPad you don't need to remember; the program finds them on its own. That's what I'd like to see NWC able to do.

It seems as though the program could keep track of which drives were network drives and which were local, and only purge from local drives. That wouldn't solve the whole problem, but it would certainly help. It would help even more if you could choose whether or not the history displayed network drives....and/or which drives (network or local) to look at....

Re: History?

Reply #20 – 2010-01-07 04:49 pm

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2008-10-06 05:54 pm

And one more suggestion: a "purge" button for the history list to remove dead links while leaving live ones.
Like Lawrie, I use the history a lot, and making it more functional would definitely improve my NWC experience. So maybe it should be a little higher priority than some have suggested.

This reflects my sentiment as well.

In addition, I think that NWC would be improved if only those files opened via File->Open... were added to History. There is little benefit to adding files opened via File->Open Samples... to History as these are easily accessable.

IMO, files opened via the command line should not be added to History.

Files opened via Explorer (not Internet Explorer) are added to My Recent Documents.
File opened via e-mail or the newsgroup are easy to find and reopen.

Files opened from a Web Page expire. They can be found and reopened though the user's Browser History. If that becomes difficult, users can develop the habit of adding the source page to their Browser Favorites.

If all this is too controversial, perhaps some ability can be added to allow the user to define which open methods cause a file to be added to history.

Re: History?

Reply #21 – 2010-01-07 05:15 pm

I wonder if just listing saved files in History would not be more convenient. I would like to use History for the files I am actively working on rather than just browsing.

Re: History?

Reply #22 – 2010-01-07 06:20 pm

Only placing files that have been saved into the history probably wouldn't work for me. As an example: when preparing parts, I begin by opening the full score, hiding all staves except those I need for the particular part I'm working on, doing a save as...., closing all files, and reopening just the new file for the part. This prevents any chance that I will accidentally modify the full score (which I have done, before developing this routine, and don't ask me to recount the experience because I'll cry). When I follow this procedure, the full score is opened and closed without saving it. But it's sure handy to have it near the top of the history when I go to prepare the next part.

Only placing files that have been opened with file/open might work. But that would leave out files that have been dragged and dropped or double-clicked from Windows Explorer, and though I rarely do that, I suspect it would be disconcerting to not have them show up in the history the few times that I do use those techniques.

Clearly, this is an area that needs more thought....

Bill

Re: History?

Reply #23 – 2010-01-07 06:55 pm

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2010-01-07 06:20 pm

Only placing files that have been saved into the history probably wouldn't work for me.

It would not work for me either. NWC's current practice of adding any changed file to History, no matter how it was opened, seems correct.

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2010-01-07 06:20 pm

Only placing files that have been opened with file/open might work. But that would leave out files that have been dragged and dropped or double-clicked from Windows Explorer, and though I rarely do that, I suspect it would be disconcerting to not have them show up in the history the few times that I do use those techniques.

I use those techniques and it is NWC's current behaviour that is disconcerting. If files are opened with a double-click from Windows Explorer, they are added to My Recent Documents. That should suffice.

Re: History?

Reply #24 – 2010-01-07 07:12 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2010-01-07 06:55 pm

If files are opened with a double-click from Windows Explorer, they are added to My Recent Documents. That should suffice.

Should suffice, except for those of us who turn My Recent Documents off. Then it becomes a problem.

Re: History?

Reply #25 – 2010-01-07 10:26 pm

Here's a thought:
When files are opened from an internet resource or from an email they are placed into the temp directory structure i.e. the *path pointed to by the %temp% environment variable is part, if not all, of the location of the file. Suppose files that have the %temp% path in the location are not placed into history, but all others are?

This way files that are most likely to become inaccesible don't take up space in the history.

Rick's point RE My Recent Documents being available is true, but I tend to think that having the usable history all in one place is more convenient and more useful.

* E.G. C:\DOCUME~1\login_name\LOCALS~1\Temp\

Re: History?

Reply #26 – 2010-01-07 11:28 pm

There seems to be general agreement that files opened from the Web should not be added to history.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2010-01-07 10:26 pm

When files are opened from an internet resource or from an email they are placed into the temp directory structure i.e. the *path pointed to by the %temp% environment variable is part, if not all, of the location of the file.

I don't think so. Internet Explorer and Outlook Express use a path that always includes a folder named Temporary Internet Files. Internet Explorer Options allow the user to change the location. By default, it is not %TEMP% for Win98 or WinXP.

It might be as simple as excluding and files with a Temporary Internet Files path component from History. That would satisfy me.

Re: History?

Reply #27 – 2010-01-07 11:57 pm

G'day Rick,
well, now there's a thing...

My previous comment was made from my PC at home and while I didn't specifically open an internet based file to test, I checked my history which I knew contained files I'd opened from the net (using Firefox) and they definitely were in the location pointed to by %temp% which is C:\DOCUME~1\lawrie\LOCALS~1\Temp\.

So, after reading your reply, I tested from my PC at my office (I love being the boss

) 'cos that's where I am, and from Firefox, they are stored in C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\ but from IE they are stored in:
C:\Documents and Settings\lawrie\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\.....

My email client is Groupwise and those files end up in:
C:\DOCUME~1\lawrie\LOCALS~1\Temp\XPgrpwise\
This is the same as the machine at home.

I understand the email location which is consistent anyway, but I cannot understand why FF would put them in C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\ at my office and in %temp% at home. Both machines log into (almost) identically configured networks...

Re: History?

Reply #28 – 2010-01-08 12:48 am

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2010-01-07 11:57 pm

I cannot understand why FF would put them in C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\ at my office and in %temp% at home. Both machines log into (almost) identically configured networks...

The setting is called "browser.cache.disk.parent_directory" in the config. You might want to review your config and cache settings...in the address bar,"about:cache" will show you the locations, and "about:config" shows any settings. It might also be set from your User.js.

Re: History?

Reply #29 – 2010-01-08 02:14 am

Thanks Eric,
the office PC (using C:\Windows\temp) is completely inconsistent with any settings in the config or cache pages. I do not have a user.js to interfere with it either.

The really interesting part is that both machines have only had v3.x of Firefox installed, clean, using defaults, and then online updates - they should be identical in their FF config's...