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Topic: Muted notes and muted staves (Read 30115 times) previous topic - next topic

Muted notes and muted staves

NWC's handling of muted notes/staves is troubling to me.

Currently (as of Beta 2.20), muted notes are played back as if they were rests.
Muted Staves are treated as if all the notes/chords are muted.
Simple, but perhaps too simple.

I would expect a muted staff to be removed from playback.
This would allow the user to set up multiple tempi and MPC staves and experiment by muting staves. Currently, I copy the staves into NotePad and insert/delete them from NWC. I can't save a work in progress, without starting the whole process over.

For MIDI Export, I would expect that a muted staff would not be exported.
No Lyrics (if attached to the muted staff), and no track. It makes no sense to me that "Display only" staves should be exported. Often, I have to look at the text output of MF2T, and I'd rather not have to wade through all the track data. It would be so much easier to mute all the staves but one, mute the notes on it up to the problem area, export it and see needed info at the top of the MF2T output.

This might even improve the perception of the product. I look at a lot of downloaded MIDI files, and when I see an armload of empty tracks, my reaction is: What lame program produced this?

It is too soon for me to have an opinion on whether muted tracks should be excluded from nwctxt.

To discuss muted notes, a short explanation of MIDI is useful. MIDI files are almost entirely comprised of delta times and messages. The message tells the MIDI player what to do, the delta time tells it how long to pause before doing it. To produce a note, a program can send a note on message (containing the channel, pitch and velocity), pause, then send a note off message (containing the channel and pitch). Almost no software does this (including NoteWorthy). Instead, they send: note on, pause, note on. The second note on is identical to the first, except that the velocity is zero. This is interpreted by the MIDI player as a "note off". Most discussions of MIDI simply use "note on/off" as a shorthand for "note on/same note off with velocity=0".

Treating muted notes as rests has a few problems.
It can produce the dreaded stuck note:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Recorder"|Patch:74
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Muted
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:b0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
These are hard to find.

I would suggest that muted notes produce a note off.
There is no harm in producing a note off without a previous note on. Many programs will send a 128 note offs X 16 channels encompassing every MIDI note as a brute force "kill switch". Every MIDI playback device must be able to deal with it. There are seldom many muted notes in a playback staff. The file and processing overhead would be undetectable to the listener.

I would suggest that grace notes produce a note off, but no pause.
This is what I would expect a muted grace note to do. I don't expect, nor desire it to inject a pause into playback. I can't see a downside to this change as a muted grace rest could be used to simulate NWC's current playback behaviour.

Advantages:
More accurate playback. When the grace note is supposed to fall before the beat, it is disturbing to hear a pause before the principal note, more so when there are notes in other staves sounding on the beat. Only the grace notes would need to go to a separate playback staff. Putting a lot of notes on non visible staves defeats one of NWC's great benefits: verifing notes via playback. NWC's default grace note slurs often need to be fixed and this delays playback even more. Example:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Muted
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:1z|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,-2,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Ties to nowhere. There is a French term for this that escapes me. Looks like this:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4^,-2^,1^
|Chord|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-4,-2,1|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
As a piano player, this tells me to give a weak accent to the note, and full duration to the chord. It also suggests that future "tenuto" articulations are weak accents rather than duration modifiers. Ravel's Forlane has dozens of these. Playback is only off by a 32nd note, but it seem logical to me that one ought to be able to mute the grace note and get accurate playback.

Slurs. Muted, hidden grace notes are very useful for adding arc to slurs, but I'd rather not hear their effects.

The biggest advantage to me is that the program would do what I expect. For the person starting out, I would think it even more important.

IMO, Software that does unnatural things in an attempt to be "accurate from its own point of view" is not friendly.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #1 –
G'day Rick,
while I don't manipulate the occasional MIDI that I export I do have a few thoughts "on general principles":

Quote from: Rick G. –
I would expect a muted staff to be removed from playback.

Concur

Quote
For MIDI Export, I would expect that a muted staff would not be exported.

concur.

Quote
It is too soon for me to have an opinion on whether muted tracks should be excluded from nwctxt.

Actually, I would expect every little thing to be included in the nwctxt format - this is more about the notation rather than the audio result...

Quote
I would suggest that muted notes produce a note off.

There is no harm in producing a note off without a previous note on. Many programs will send a 128 note offs X 16 channels encompassing every MIDI note as a brute force "kill switch". Every MIDI playback device must be able to deal with it. There are seldom many muted notes in a playback staff. The file and processing overhead would be undetectable to the listener.

I assume that a "rest" produces no MIDI events at all?  This makes sense to me and is what I would expect.  How can it result in a "stuck note" unless there has been a previous note on event?  This only makes sense if the "note on" note was tied to the muted note - I don't see why anyone would do this...  Though, in the interests of "fool proofing" things perhaps a "note off" event is wise...

Quote
I would suggest that grace notes produce a note off, but no pause.
This is what I would expect a muted grace note to do. I don't expect, nor desire it to inject a pause into playback. I can't see a downside to this change as a muted grace rest could be used to simulate NWC's current playback behaviour.

I would like much more control over grace notes than this simple change, though in the context above I have no objection.


Quote
Slurs. Muted, hidden grace notes are very useful for adding arc to slurs, but I'd rather not hear their effects.

This is an effective work around that you (and others) use to great advantage. 

However, I would prefer more direct control over slurs etc.  A "handle" that has no printable aspect nor duraional durational impact.  We have discussed this elsewhere.


Quote
The biggest advantage to me is that the program would do what I expect. For the person starting out, I would think it even more important.

IMO, Software that does unnatural things in an attempt to be "accurate from its own point of view" is not friendly.

There are 2 sides to your last sentence, but and in general I concur.  Nevertheless, internal consistency is important.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
I assume that a "rest" produces no MIDI events at all?  This makes sense to me and is what I would expect.  How can it result in a "stuck note" unless there has been a previous note on event?  This only makes sense if the "note on" note was tied to the muted note - I don't see why anyone would do this...  Though, in the interests of "fool proofing" things perhaps a "note off" event is wise...
A "rest" produces no MIDI events, but it does increase the time to the next event.

Quote from: "3 Ways to Hang a Note" by Rick G. (designed to be played rather than printed)
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Alto|OctaveShift:Octave Up
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73
|Note|Pos:0^
|Clef|Type:Alto
|Note|
|Note|Pos:2^
|Instrument|Name:"[8va]"|Trans:12
|Note|Pos:2
|Note|Pos:-2^
|Text|Text:"(muted)"
|Note|Pos:-2|Opts:Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Ideally, NWC2 would detect all of this, but the last one is the most common. Knowing the consequences, no one would intentionally mute a note that is the final destination of a tie, but in muting a large selection, accidents can happen.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
I would like much more control over grace notes than this simple change, though in the context above I have no objection.
Gee, don't go out on a limb here :)
Every journey begins with a single step.

Thanks for the input.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #3 –
Most of what you say makes sense, Rick, but I'm not sure about the muted notes. It seems to me as though they have to be treated as rests in order to synchronize the playback of the remainder of the music. Rests and muted notes are both holes in the music, and it seems redundant to have two different ways to make them happen.

As for ties to muted notes: I had actually made some on purpose a few minutes before I read your post. I had a multi-measure held note followed by a multi-measure rest in one voice against passagework in another, and I was trying to figure out how long to hold the note before cutting it off to begin the rest. I thought muting the tied notes one at a time, beginning at the rest and moving back toward the first note of the tied series, would be a clever way to test this. Of course, it didn't work. I'm not sure it has to work, but it does show one possible use of a tie to a muted note.

But I'm certainly with you on the muted staves and muted grace notes.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #4 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
... I'm not sure about the muted notes. It seems to me as though they have to be treated as rests in order to synchronize the playback of the remainder of the music.
Like every (non-grace) Rest/RestChord/Note/Chord, a muted (non-grace) note must have duration to synchronize playback. That does not mean that it cannot be programmed produce a note off. Ideally, it would only do this when needed, but I cannot see any harm if it always produced a note off.

Quote from: William Ashworth –
Rests and muted notes are both holes in the music, and it seems redundant to have two different ways to make them happen.
I hate to quibble here, but it would be redundant if rests and muted notes did the same thing.
Not that redundancy is always bad ...

Quote from: William Ashworth –
As for ties to muted notes: I had actually made some on purpose a few minutes before I read your post. I had a multi-measure held note followed by a multi-measure rest in one voice against passagework in another, and I was trying to figure out how long to hold the note before cutting it off to begin the rest. I thought muting the tied notes one at a time, beginning at the rest and moving back toward the first note of the tied series, would be a clever way to test this. Of course, it didn't work. I'm not sure it has to work, but it does show one possible use of a tie to a muted note.
You could have created a non-tied grace note of the same timbre and inserted it into various places, but I digress ...

Quote from: William Ashworth –
But I'm certainly with you on the muted staves and muted grace notes.
I know that some of my posts are tough to wade through. Thanks for taking the time.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Like every (non-grace) Rest/RestChord/Note/Chord, a muted (non-grace) note must have duration to synchronize playback. That does not mean that it cannot be programmed produce a note off. Ideally, it would only do this when needed, but I cannot see any harm if it always produced a note off.

Rests (and the Rest part of RestChords) should not have a general note off, as this would cause notes to be unnecessarily shortened.  Ties to muted notes, though, should end, so muted notes should have a note-off just for only their own note.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #6 –
Just ran into a potential problem with muted staves being ignored in playback: when we are using hidden staves for playback and all the visible staves are muted, how will we keep track of where we are in the music while it's playing? Maybe turning off playback on muted staves should be optional?

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #7 –
William: Perhaps I should have written that a muted staff should not affect audio playback. I did not mean to call for a change to video playback. Thanks for pointing this out, as it clarifies my original post. The program should chase notes as it currently does.

kahman: Thanks. Glad we agree.

Edit: corrected typo
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #8 –
We will consider enhancements to the staff mute function, such as an additional ignore option.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #9 –
   This is an interesting discussion.  Here is a contribution, which I would expect should get its one vote counted, neither more nor less.

   I would expect muted staves to generate no midi events at all, whether to the midi port or an exported midi file, but neither muting nor hiding removes a staff from the score, and so long as things like tempi and fermatas are permitted on more than one staff, muting a staff should not make these ineffective.  Perhaps a new sequester or recuse attribute could make everyone happy.  Of course, muting a visible staff should not affect the note chase.

   The three ways to generate a stuck note represent, I think, only two different cases.  The first two involve two different notes, which happen to lie on the same staff line.  The second note should sound, but doesn't.  The first note and its tie then represent a musical illegality.  A tie is legitimate only if an appropriate target exists without a time gap intervening.  I would go so far as to say the tie attribute should be automatically removed if the target note is deleted, but under the current user interface, this would create a problem entering a note, which will later get an eligible target.  I personally always go back and add the ties after all notes to be tied into one group are entered, but I would hardly want to force anyone else to do this, so I would ask that an illegal tie be flagged with an otherwise unavailable highlight color or made to blink or be given some such marker, and be ignored during playback.  The third case should not present a problem if muted notes generate only a note off event at the proper time, which is apparently not the case.   For this reason they certainly should not be treated as rests.

   Muting a grace note should, I think, be just like muting any other note; no aspect of the surrounding notes should change.  A grace note interpreted as beginning before the beat need steal no time from any other note, but that interpretation needs a new attribute, probably at all of the score, staff, and note levels.  Again, this new feature could make everyone happy.

   Finally, no input to a program should produce a catastrophic failure, certainly not an illegal page fault, but probably not even a stuck note.  When I was attending IBM SHARE meetings, we all got hot under the collar when the answer was "correct code does not encounter the problem".  No construct which has a clear meaning, such as a tie to a muted note, should have serious problems it causes ignored because "no one would want to use it".

   

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #10 –
Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
I would expect muted staves to generate no midi events at all, whether to the midi port or an exported midi file,

Concur

Quote
...but neither muting nor hiding removes a staff from the score, and so long as things like tempi and fermatas are permitted on more than one staff, muting a staff should not make these ineffective.  Perhaps a new sequester or recuse attribute could make everyone happy.  Of course, muting a visible staff should not affect the note chase.

I'm less sure of this.  As I only ever use a conductor staff for tempo variation events I don't run into any problems that this may engender however it seems to me that if I mute a staff, I want it's effects totally removed.  E.G it may well be my conductor staff that I want to test alternatives with...

Would you expand a little on your thoughts with the sequester suggestion please?


Quote
...so I would ask that an illegal tie be flagged with an otherwise unavailable highlight color or made to blink or be given some such marker, and be ignored during playback. 

My only real concern here is code overhead.  At the end of the day if a note is stuck then the notator is gonna go looking, and will usually find it pretty quickly.  We used to have a |Edit|Find...|Hanging Note Tie| facility (it's still in 1.75), perhaps that could come back..?

Quote
The third case should not present a problem if muted notes generate only a note off event at the proper time, which is apparently not the case.   For this reason they certainly should not be treated as rests.

Concur

Quote
Muting a grace note should, I think, be just like muting any other note; no aspect of the surrounding notes should change.  A grace note interpreted as beginning before the beat need steal no time from any other note, but that interpretation needs a new attribute, probably at all of the score, staff, and note levels.  Again, this new feature could make everyone happy.

Better control of grace notes has long been desired.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #11 –
Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
   I would expect muted staves to generate no midi events at all, whether to the midi port or an exported midi file, but neither muting nor hiding removes a staff from the score, and so long as things like tempi and fermatas are permitted on more than one staff, muting a staff should not make these ineffective.  Perhaps a new sequester or recuse attribute could make everyone happy.
Currently, a note can be muted, but tempi and MPC's cannot. A "Disable" (or sequester or recuse) checkbox could be placed on these, but a simpler change, I think, is to disable them if the staff is muted. The "Mute List" popup is very convenient for trying out different combinations of sounds. This would extend that to different tempi. I like the simplicity of: "muted staff = no MIDI".

I'm not asking for it, but options could be placed at the staff level to:
  • disable tempi if muted
  • disable MPC's if muted

Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
Of course, muting a visible staff should not affect the note chase.
I suspect everyone would agree. I did not mean to suggest otherwise.

Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
   The three ways to generate a stuck note represent, I think, only two different cases. <snip> The third case should not present a problem if muted notes generate only a note off event at the proper time, which is apparently not the case.   For this reason they certainly should not be treated as rests.
You are correct. The first two are irrelevent to this topic, except to show that NWC2 already has the logic to know that a note is the final destination of a tie, and therefore it does not produce a note on. Armed with this knowledge, it should produce a note off, even if muted.

I am changing my position on this to:
A tie destination note should always produce a note off (muted or not).
Muted grace notes that are not tie destinations should not alter MIDI.

IMO, it would be best if a muted note that is a tie destination produce an immediate note off. This would add flexabilty, and in most cases be musically correct.

Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
   Muting a grace note should, I think, be just like muting any other note; no aspect of the surrounding notes should change.
That is a defensable position. Many argue that a "crush" is played by sounding both notes together and the releasing one quickly. Few instruments are capable of it and it is not what is done in the majority of cases that a grace note is encountered by a musician.

Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
A grace note interpreted as beginning before the beat need steal no time from any other note.
For a single voice instrument, it must cut the prior note short, effectively "stealing" time from it.

We would all like more control over grace notes, but I don't want to "sacrifice the good on the altar of the perfect." I just want them to musically disappear if the already existing Muted box is checked. (Subject to the caveat that a tie destination needs to produce a note off).

Quote from: bidderxyzzy –
   Finally, no input to a program should produce a catastrophic failure, certainly not an illegal page fault, but probably not even a stuck note.
I wouldn't classify stuck notes as a catastrophic failure.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
I only ever use a conductor staff for tempo variation events
I would submit that the real reason you do this is that you cannot disable them. If you could (at the staff level), I'd bet that in some pieces, you would have several conductor staves as you "try out" different options. The "choir users" could create a 1/2 tempo staff and mute one or the other.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
We used to have a |Edit|Find...|Hanging Note Tie| facility (it's still in 1.75), perhaps that could come back..?
IIRC, It left because the stuck note problem was considered solved. Ironic: If you export the clip in Reply #2 to v1.75, only cases 1 & 3 produce stuck notes and |Edit|Find...|Hanging Note Tie| flags them both! Case 2 is lost in translation (a buglet?) since 1.75's Instrument patch doesn't support transposition.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Better control of grace notes has long been desired.
But that and many other requested changes complicate the UI. I'd rather concentrate on getting the things that NWC2 already provides to default to the musically best and visually most flexible positions. For me, the key to user frendly software is good defaults, not bad ones that are excused with "but you can always change it."

I curse everytime I hit "e" for Tempo Variance and select Fermata. NWC2 inserts it as Left, Best Fit and that is never, never no never, correct for a fermata! It should always, always, yes always be Center, At Next Note/Bar.   grrrr....

It just occurred to me that I can write a User Tool that accepts a note and returns it with a properly placed Fermata. Sometimes it takes anger to get the creative juices flowing. I feel better now.

Edit: minor grammar fix
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I am changing my position on this to:
A tie destination note should always produce a note off (muted or not).
A muted grace notes that are not tie destinations should not alter MIDI.

No argument.

Quote
Many argue that a "crush" is played by sounding both notes together and the releasing one quickly. Few instruments are capable of it and it is not what is done in the majority of cases that a grace note is encountered by a musician.
For a single voice instrument, it must cut the prior note short, effectively "stealing" time from it.

That is how my Alfred's defines it, and basically how I was taught.  I've only ever really seen it effective in conjunction with keyboard instruments.

Quote
I would submit that the real reason you do this is that you cannot disable them. If you could (at the staff level), I'd bet that in some pieces, you would have several conductor staves as you "try out" different options. The "choir users" could create a 1/2 tempo staff and mute one or the other.

Actually, I simplified my real practice for purposes of discussion.  In reality have a lyric staff that has almost everything hidden on it except for:
  • Tempi
  • Lyrics
  • Chord markings
  • Text objects that are common
  • Anything else that can reasonably go there

When I extract parts, this staff is layered onto the part so that every musician has the lyrics in the right places, the same chord markings &etc.

This saves on errors...  Of course, the chord markings are only good for C instruments - if I need 'em for transposing instruments I make a copy of the lyric staff and use "Transpose Chords" to fix it.

Quote
IIRC, It left because the stuck note problem was considered solved.

That agrees with what I remember.

Quote
I curse everytime I hit "e" for Tempo Variance and select Fermata. NWC2 inserts it as Left, Best Fit and that is never, never no never, correct for a fermata! It should always, always, yes always be Center, At Next Note/Bar.   grrrr....

It just occurred to me that I can write a User Tool that accepts a note and returns it with a properly placed Fermata. Sometimes it takes anger to get the creative juices flowing. I feel better now.

;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #13 –
A tie destination note should always produce a note off (muted or not).
Muted grace notes that are not tie destinations should not alter MIDI.
I'd like to see this happen.

Add to the benefits listed above: Persistent Accidentals
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:n-7z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-7,#-3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #14 –
If the above-mentioned proposals are ever incorporated into NoteWorthy Composer, I'd like them to be optional.

I use muted notes extensively. I have several staves, each staff having its own bent pitch (the first having no pitch bends). This allows me to truly represent Byzantine or Eastern music.

Although I do it programmatically, essentially each staff is a copy of the first. The notes whose pitches are bent are not muted, all other notes on that staff are muted.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #15 –
Quote from: matta –
I use muted notes extensively.
But do you use muted grace notes? If so, how is a 32nd note's worth of silence enhancing things?

Are you using muted tie destination notes to deliberately produce hanging notes?

In short, I don't think anything proposed here will affect your work. I also make extensive use of muted notes. I would like them to function properly.

Sounding grace notes need to borrow time to be heard. Muted grace notes don't. All I am saying is that muted grace notes should not borrow time. That should not be controversial.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #16 –
This discussion is somewhat long for me to read right now (it's been quite some time since I've been here...), so I'm just kinda glancing through it, but it seems to me (and I could be so wrong) that if your muted grace notes were unmuted and tied to the main note, then no "hiccups" would result.  I hope I haven't missed the point, either.
Can't test right now (borrowing yet another computer...) and don't know how soon I'll get back here.
HTH

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #17 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
if your muted grace notes were unmuted and tied to the main note, then no "hiccups" would result.
Only if the grace note is hidden (otherwise the tie would show) and only if the pitches in the next note are the same as the grace note. This also delays the 'note off'. The delay is slight but often audible.
Quote from: K.A.T. –
I hope I haven't missed the point, either.
One of my points is that the current behaviour is seldom (if ever) useful or expected.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #18 –
NWC2 Beta 2.26 changes the behavior of a muted grace note such that it no longer shifts the play back time for the note that follows it.

An experimental change is also added that treats Visibility=Never, inwardly tied grace notes in a similar fashion. However, I don't think that this change is going to be kept.

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #19 –
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
NWC2 Beta 2.26 changes the behavior of a muted grace note such that it no longer shifts the play back time for the note that follows it.
Hurrah! (and many thanks). I suspect it will take many months to fully exploit this new feature.
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
An experimental change is also added that treats Visibility=Never, inwardly tied grace notes in a similar fashion. However, I don't think that this change is going to be kept.
This behaviour is useful, but I can see your qualms. AFAIK, this is now the only situation where 'Visibility:' affects playback.

I can see situations where one might want want a tie into a grace note to stop the note immediately or allow the note to "ring". In both cases I would want the grace note to be 'Visibility:Never' .

Perhaps 'Accent' would work better. Currently, Accent on a tie destination note does nothing to playback. Programming it to cause the note to "ring" would seem logical. So, in this (theoretical, as of Beta 2.26) clip:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1^
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-1|Opts:Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1^
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace,Accent|Pos:1|Opts:Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
The first grace note would stop the note and the second would allow it to "ring". Since both are muted, neither would keep the normal notes from starting on the beat.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I would expect a muted staff to be removed from playback.
This would allow the user to set up multiple tempi and MPC staves and experiment by muting staves. Currently, I copy the staves into NotePad and insert/delete them from NWC. I can't save a work in progress, without starting the whole process over.
Partial solution: If you set Staff Properties...->Midi->Play back device: <Unavailable>, notes, controllers and instrument patches will not be sent to any active device, effectively muting them.

This will not work with Tempo and mpc:tempo and Tempo Variance. These are not MIDI controllers (they affect all devices). To silence them, you must delete them :(

While not quite as friendly as the Mute List, Score Review does an adequate job of managing this.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Muted notes and muted staves

Reply #21 –
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
An experimental change is also added that treats Visibility=Never, inwardly tied grace notes in a similar fashion. However, I don't think that this change is going to be kept.
Please keep this behavior. It has now existed for 17+ months without objection and I find the change useful for producing a note off just prior to a note on.
Registered user since 1996