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Topic: New at this - Inserting Choruses? (Read 9111 times) previous topic - next topic

New at this - Inserting Choruses?

I feel kind of silly, but I just got NWC and have been trying to enter in some old hymns from hymnals I have. I have two things that are frustrating me...

1) So far I can only get one LONG staff going across the page in the program itself. This is really hard to work with - how can I get the staff to 'wrap', that is, just continue on another line? I'd really like 4 measures, then to be able to put 4 more measures below it, and 4 more below that, etc, but to have them play one after the other, not at the same time.

2) Part of the same issue - how do I insert a chorus without having to copy/paste the 8 measures over and over? The only thing I've discovered so far is putting a multiple repeat on the end - basically, I have one long staff with the chorus on the end, and put a 4X repeat on it, then it will play all 4 verses of my hymn.

There has to be a better way... help?

Thanks!

Anna

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #1 –
About every new user of NWC finds this problem of one long staff.  Eventually they figure it out.
NWC is not WYSIWYG.  Every piece is one long staff in the editor.  Most NWC users prefer this to WYSIWYG.  To see what will actually get printed, go to File-Print Preview.
Eventually, it just becomes what NWC users automatically do.

I'm not sure what I would do for the second one, nor am I sure how I would notate it in the first place.  Sorry about not helping there.

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #2 –
I'm not sure I can figure out the best way to resolve the repeats, but others will be able to quite quickly, I think.  It would help to know the structure of the song.

Are your verses identical, with the chorus different, or is each verse different?

In other words, is your song structure
A B A B A B A B
or
A B C B D B E B F B ?

Also are you concerned with the notes themselves, or is just the lyrics that are causing your problems, or is it both?

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #3 –
The format is A B A B A B A B.

What bugs me about the long staff is that I already HAVE a printed copy in my old hymnal - my trouble is, I can't sing by sight so I try to teach myself the song by putting it in NWC and playing it there (usually selecting the piano or clarinet though I occasionally amuse myself with the other offbeat instruments, especially gunshot since my denomination is pacifist) :-)

It's not so hard, I guess, if I just let it play across on NWC to give me the tune and notes while following along in my hymnal. It's just clunky for me. If I was more musical and wrote my own stuff, I might appreciate the NWC format more. Maybe someday. :-)

I don't actually put lyrics in, since I have them in the hymnal already. The only thing I do right now is put in the notes, so that it will play back and teach me the tune of the hymn. I also like to put the harmony lines in so I can learn alto - I silence the soprano line and try to sing along with alto. Typing all 4 parts in sounds awesome, but takes FOREVER! Going note by note it takes a long time, although I know how to use copy/paste when measures are the same and I know how to use the keyboard commands for the notes, which is faster too.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated!

Anna

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #4 –
Hi Anna,

Look at the sample songs. And look for Noteworthy-songs on the Web, and play some. It gives you a better idea of Noteworthy, and how to work with it.
It takes forever, note by note? No, not at all. Yesterday, I was very busy. For a break, I entered a song of two pages in Noteworthy. Only using the keyboard. Once you know your way around it, it's the fastest and most accurate way. 7, 8, 9 for natural, flat, sharp; 2,3,4 for half, quarter and eighth notes, the odd dot for dotted notes, and of course Enter and space for actually entering notes and rests... A very good start. And tab for bars.
Ties, slurs, beams: you can always do them afterwards by highlighting the note/notes (with the mouse or keyboard!) and pressing Alt-Enter.
Didn't scare you off now?
Enjoy the program: it's big fun, and very rewarding!
cheers,
Rob
(Maarssen, Netherlands)

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #5 –
I gotta agree with Rob on ease and speed, but it does depend on how much you use the program.  I will polish off a choral octavo in 45 minutes-2 hours (SATB and piano, or even more voices, and depending on the complexity), while it could take my wife a half day (guess who uses it more...).
Once you practice using it a bit, you will start flying through pieces in no time.
p.s.  I almost never use the mouse - keyboard is much faster.

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #6 –
Quote
Typing all 4 parts in sounds awesome, but takes FOREVER!

A couple of shortcuts:

If, say, the soprano and alto parts are parallel thirds, notate the soprano, copy and paste it to the alto staff, highlight it all and move the notes down with shift-arrow.

If you're copying just short passages, save them up and copy

Quote
Going note by note it takes a long time, although I know how to use copy/paste when measures are the same

I agree with K A T about the mouse.  I use it for the accessory stuff but most things are just easier, quicker and more accurate with the keyboard.

As you get used to the program, you'll develop a touch-typing rhythm, where your hand just flows back and forth from keyboard to numberpad.  If you use a notebook computer, spending $20-$30 for a keyboard that plugs into your computer will make the job a lot easier.  Another thing you can do is get a midi keyboard, and use it to play your tunes into a midi file, that you can import into NWC and edit.



Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #8 –
Thanks so much for all your suggestions. I did stumble across the Noteworthy songs library - I think it's called the Scriptorium? That really wowed me - there's a lot you can do with this, if you really know how to write music!! And I can certainly see how an auto-wrap would be bad once you throw in 5 or 6 parts. I just wasn't thinking at that level.

I do know how to use the keyboard, but I don't use it enough to really flow - it's a clunky process of "Ok, this is an E [enter].. then an A [arrow up, arrow up, enter].. [squint at hymnal] ok, then an eighth note B [arrow up, 4, enter]. I'm sure I will get better over time.

I'm familiar with music and play a smattering of clarinet, but this certainly seems to be a more powerful program than my level of experience 'deserves'. For instance, I have no idea what David Palmquist means in his comment by the term 'parallel thirds'. It's amazing to download and listen to other folks' songs, though.

Thanks again - I'll keep playing with it!

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #9 –
Heh, just realized I missed an [arrow up] in my description of entering the hymn - between the E and A. Now I really sound like a rube. :-) :-)

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #10 –
G'day Qwertio33,
It gets better over time...  I don't even bother to think about what the notes are when I'm transcribing, just recognise the relative positions and arrow to suit, changeing the note value if necessary.

Then ther are little tricks like <Ctrl-Up/Down Arrow> will give you an octave shift...  If you're on the 'E' line at the bottom of the Treble staff, then <Ctrl-Up Arrow> will place the cursor in the 'E' space at the top of the staff.

/ is a Tie
; is a slur
, is a Staccatto
. is an augmentation dot
! is an accent in NWC2
> is an accent in NWC1
_ is a tenuto

You get so these are so automatic you don't think of 'em...

If you get the note value wrong, 'tis easy to fix with a <+> or <-> - just highlight the note(s) to be corrected <Shift-Left/Right Arrow> and press <+> to double or <-> to halve...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #11 –
Quote
I have no idea what David Palmquist means in his comment by the term 'parallel thirds'.

It sounds more complicated than it is:

The first voice sings:                  F D D E C C B C D E F  F F     
while the second voice does:       D B B C A A G A B C D D D

Each note in the top line is a third above the corresponding note in the bottom line.  When one voice goes up, so does the other, and vice versa.   They move in parallel.  That's all.


(edited to remove embarassing mistake)

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Qwertio33 –
The format is A B A B A B A B.

Just in case you were wondering (Question 2), you could just put a verse then a chorus then a multi repeat at the end. (you could separate the verse and chorus by a double bar line. Sorry if this was so obvious that nobody pointed it out or that I didn't see it... I thought that maybe someone should have answered the question explicitly)

<edit>
Just saw that what I said was already there...

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #13 –
Quote
The first voice sings:                  F D D E C C B C D E F  F F    
while the second voice does:       D B B C A A G A B C D D D

Each note in the top line is a major third above the corresponding note in the bottom line.

Uh - David - some of those are minor thirds....;-)

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #14 –
Anna,
If, like me, you enjoy hymns but are not very good on all this musical theory stuff, you can have a lot of fun by going to the Cyber Hymnal ( it has  been referred to by someone else) at
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/
there are over 6,500 hymns there with words and tunes and some history in many cases.
Most of them can be downloaded as a Midi file, which you can listen to directly , or as an NWC score which you can copy or edit. If you are lucky it might be layered, meaning that you can separate out the different  parts and play them separately.
. And It can be very addictive.

Tony

Tony

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #15 –

Tony,
Quote from: Qwertio33 –
Heh, just realized I missed an [arrow up] in my description of entering the hymn - between the E and A. Now I really sound like a rube. :-) :-)
Apparently Anna (aka Qwertio33), was so embarrassed by this, that she never returned.
Last Active:  2007-04-22 04:33 pm

Here's the culprit:
Quote from: Rob den Heijer –
Didn't scare you off now?
You just gotta stop scaring off the wiminfolk.
Registered user since 1996

Re: New at this - Inserting Choruses?

Reply #16 –
Mea culpa.
Mea maxima culprit.