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Topic: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D (Read 48920 times) previous topic - next topic

Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

We all know how it should look, but the GM on channel 10 looks nothing like sheet music would. Back in windows 3.x we had mapping files which we could use to alter the output pitches, but no longer.. :(

This would not normally play as you would expect:
<Image Link>

There is a nice little app called MidiOX, available from here http://www.midiox.com/

You need to download and install both Midi Yoke and Midi OX.

You will now have some extra midi "devices" available in NWC, (and other apps). Select MIDI Yoke NT: 1 as an extra playback device.

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This "device" can then be applied to a staff. Choose channel 10 for you percussion sound.

<Image Link>

If you are to play the staff now, you will hear nothing! What we need to do is have MIDI-OX recieve the Midi data from the Yoke and relay it on to our real playback device.

Load up MIDI-OX. Go to the Options menu, then choose Midi Devices...

In the MIDI Inputs box, choose MIDI Yoke NT: 1
In the MIDI Outputs, choose your playback device.

The dialog box should now look somethinglike this:

<Image Link>

At this stage you should be able to play the staff, but it won't be like percussion notation, you'll be getting bells and whistles and God knows what else :) It is still good to test at this stage.

If you do not hear anything, double check the Port Routings. (View menu, Port Routings...)

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Now we need to apply some mappings, so that NWC will "read" our percussion staff correctly.

Within MIDI-OX, use the Options menu, Data Mapping...

Click on Insert

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Choose channel 10.
Enter the Input Value 1 min and max to 59 (This is the 1st space above the staff when using a drum cleff)
Enter the Output Value 1 min and max to 57 (This is a soft crash symbol)
Leave  everything else as it is.

In this way you can remap any note to plas as any other note.

I have set a basic configuration like this:
<Image Link>

This gives me a bass drum, snare, hihat and symbol.

If you want to find more notes and the corresponding values, we need to monitor for them.
1st thing to do is set MIDI-OX to display values in decimal, instead of hexadecimal (since the mapper uses decimal).

In the Options menu, Data Display, unset both so not on Hex.

Now that that is done, use the Actions menu, and select Start Display.

Anything you play in NWC will not show up and you can read off corresponding values. We are interested in DATA1 only.

<Image Link>

I have not gone into a huge amount of detail, but this should hopefully provide some useful ideas for you all :)

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #1 –
G'day Memran,
I have an NWC2 drumkit template that uses multiple staves that need to be layered to make it work correctly (attached).

It uses different playback transpositions in order to get the notation to match the MIDI.

Unlayer the staves to see how it works...

You could also use a hidden playback staff and a muted display staff if you wanted to, but I like my template on the grounds that I prefer to have the visible staves also doing the playback when I can.  Unfortunately my method can have problems when complex patterns occur that use beamed or flagged notes, though judicious use of stem length overrides can alleviate it.

More portable than your admittedly very clever implementation with MIDI-OX.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #2 –
With NWC2, one should be able to use a hidden MIDI track. Once the sound checks out, copy it to a Display track and run a User Tool on it. Problem is to find someone who can write a User Tool that also knows enough about what a percussion track should look like. This may be a null set :)

Lawrie: not everyone has WingDings 2. A URL would be helpful.

MIDI OX looks interesting. But if you do a song today, what will it sound like after a few years of "configuration tweaking?"
Registered user since 1996

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #4 –
Quote
but the GM on channel 10 looks nothing like sheet music would. Back in windows 3.x we had mapping files which we could use to alter the output pitches, but no longer.. :(

Memran, did you try transposing the written percussion staff?   You might find it works if you put the notes for each drum or cymbal on a different layered staff, with all set to Channel 10, Acoustic Grand Piano.  Then transpose the staff until it gives you the desired drum.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
<snip>
Lawrie: not everyone has WingDings 2. A URL would be helpful.
<snip>

oops, sorry 'bout that...  Actually, I should modify it to use SwingDings anyhow these days... WingDings is only providing circles with crosses for the crash cymbal.  Instead, use an "x" notehead and the circle in the *Dings suites at <Alt-0162)...

Mod now done - new version attached.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the comments :)

The main reason for choosing the MIDI-OX method is for the ease of use. Once its set, any percussion part I write will simply work. No need for extra staffs, layering, transposing etc. It is sure to be the fastest method, and will result in no beaming anomalies.

Also editing later will be less cumbersome.

You are right of course, about this music in later years, or if people who don't have this set up view the file and not hearing it properly. For me it seems ideal as all I do is compose music for my band to play.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #7 –
I think drum notation is something that still needs to be done natively in NWC.
The main issue is beaming. Otherwise overlaying staves works petty well. But by the time you've got muted beaming notes, and tailless playing notes, and five staves overlaid, you begin to wonder if there's a better way.
Barry's remapper is probably the easiest though I can see that Memran's looks pretty comprehensive.
One issue here is that there are many standards for drum and percussion notation. But it doesn't seem too hard to create a system whereby each line or space on a staff of an arbitrary number of lines cannot simply be mapped to a particular midi note number on a designated percussion channel (10, I guess).
NWC 3, I guess?!

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #8 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Memran, did you try transposing the written percussion staff?   You might find it works if you put the notes for each drum or cymbal on a different layered staff, with all set to Channel 10, Acoustic Grand Piano.  Then transpose the staff until it gives you the desired drum.

That's what I do...transpose each one on a separate line, same channel, and then layer them.  That way I can even plug it into a keyboard synthesizer and hear it.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #9 –
can sumone tell me how to write percussion music on NWC

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #10 –
G'day Nick,

Quote from: nickthequick800 –
can sumone tell me how to write percussion music on NWC

See:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=2449.0
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=3331.0
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5795.0
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5782.0
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=3833.0

Also:
http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#NWCFiles
for some excellent example files.

Be aware: at this stage the notes you enter are NOT standard drum notation, but the MIDI representation only so the notes aren't in the correct places.

This can be overcome 2 ways:
create a visible, muted staff with correct notation for reading and a hidden staff(staves) with the correct notation for playback
Layer staves that have transpositions assigned to allow correct note placement AND playback - this is harder and maybe not as effective.

I've tried both and I really don't know which I prefer...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #11 –
Quote
create a visible, muted staff with correct notation for reading and a hidden staff(staves) with the correct notation for playback
This is the method I prefer, as I do this with all of the other instruments as well (you know, for turns, rips, glisses, etc.).  And
Quote
Layer staves that have transpositions assigned to allow correct note placement AND playback - this is harder and maybe not as effective.
doesn't allow an eighth-note snare note and an eighth-note cymbal note to be beamed together (and there were some other problems that I can't recall at present [dang holiday stress...]).

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #12 –
Quote
doesn't allow an eighth-note snare note and an eighth-note cymbal note to be beamed together

Try something like this (see note for version 1.75)

Staff 1:
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Percussion
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=9,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:8th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=9,Beam
|Rest|Dur:8th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=9,Beam
|Rest|Dur:8th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=9,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Staff 2:
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Percussion
|Rest|Dur:8th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

You can do this in version 1, too.  The top staff is alternating eighth notes and hidden eighth rests; the second staff is alternating hidden eighth rests and visible eighth notes.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #13 –
Wow, can't believe I've been away from the Forum this long (dang holiday stress!)...
Not yet having version 2, I can't check out the Clip, and I'm not quite fathoming the note for version 1.75.
One of the other problems that I couldn't recall at the time of the last post was that Layering causes a "barline" on the left end of the staff, something I cannot tolerate (it's not a problem in a score, just a single-line part). 

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #14 –
This illustrates the two clips.

The top left staff is the first clip, the second staff is the second clip, and the third left staff is what they look like layered in the edit window. 

The staff on the right is what the layered staffs look like in print preview.  (The two thicker staff lines are probably just a problem with my screen magnification.)

You can beam the two groups of notes so all of them are covered by one beam when layered.  All you have to do is adjust the stem length so the beam is at the same height on both staffs.  As I wrote, this can be done in both programs.

The bar line on the left when layering is because NWC is working with two staffs.  When unlayered, they would normally be grouped with a bar line down the left, so on a printed page, the reader wouldn't have trouble following the system breaks.  Since layering only allows one of those staffs to move under the other, the left bar remains.  Perhaps Eric will change that one day.  It's not an issue for me.

Good night and Happy New Year!!

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #15 –
Quote
This illustrates the two clips.
Thanks!
Quote
...adjust the stem length so the beam is at the same height on both staffs.  ...this can be done in both programs.
Well, it can't be done directly in v.1, but by adjusting the height of the hidden rests, it can be done - that workaround had slipped my mind (stress...).

The left bar line is a big issue for me. 
Quote
Perhaps Eric will change that one day. 
I've asked for it years ago...

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #16 –
Interesting thread. My sister plays the drumset for some of the music I compose- so I've never considered actually notating the part for anyone else. Has me thinking...
-DAVID COOPER

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #17 –
G'day again Memran,
my son recently purchased NWC2 for himself.  One of the main reasons he wanted it was for drum kit notation and your solution at the top of this page was the tipping point for him.

So thankyou for a clever idea that has benefited "mah boy".
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #18 –
Hi, I don't know, why but when I choose my playback It dont mark "MIDI Yoke NT" but "Out to MIDI Yoke" instead:

  <Image Link>

Could you help me please (but I think that its really a simple solution -_-)

Ganta

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #19 –
My notebook shows the same - it's probably just a difference from using a later version.   The process should still work as explained.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #20 –
Hi, I don't understand why the data I put in the Data Mapping don't works, I put everythings in the good places like said in Memran's post and it don't works. Maybe, I'm wrong, so I'll explain how I tried: I play the first line over the staff and the monitor indicate in data 1: 35, so I go check to put a crash cymbal there and when I found it the data 1 indicate: 3C (why the C?) after I go to the data mapping window to put 35 in min/max input et 3C to min/max output and at the end nothings changes (ahah).  I would like answers or maybe just all the datas for a full drum set it will be good too :)

I wish all a nice day

Ganta

Re: Percussion sheet music that plays properly !! :D

Reply #21 –
Ganta - I had the same problem, it's displaying the values in HEX.  Go to Options -> Data Display and untick both options.

Here is the list of mappings I have created.  When I'm talking tom sizes - that is what size the diffferent tom mappings sound like to me:

52 - 40 - Snare
43 - 35 - Bass
45 - 35 - Bass
41 = 44 - Hihat pedal

55 - 50 - 8" tom
53 - 48 - 10" tom
50 - 47 - 12" tom
48 - 45 - 14" tom
47 - 43 - 16" floor tom
46 - 41 - 18" floor tom (flat symbol)

60 - 57 - Crash 1
62 - 49 - Crash 2
57 - 59 - Ride
58 - 46 - Open hihat (so you can use a non-visible flat symbol to have it play correctly)
59 - 42 - Closed hihat

Unmapped effects:

52 - China Cymbal
55 - Splash
52 - Bell of Ride Cymbal

Generally when I write notation however, I use different symbols to represent different cymbals but duplicate positions on the staff.  So, for example I would use a plain 'x' for the ride cymbal, but a circled 'x' for its bell sound.  A diamond for a China cymbal in the normal place for crash 1, and a triangle or whatever else is available for a splash cymbal.

Once you start going beyond crash/hats/ride notation there doesn't really seem to be any particular standard.

Usually when you are writing correction notation for open and closed hihat patterns, you write an 'o' above the note to say 'open' and an 'x' to indicate 'close'.  I have seen a half open symbol notated before but I can't remember exactly what it was.  The 'o' or 'x' above the note represents how you play the hihat until the next such indication.

Generally you won't see hihat pedal notations while the hihat is being lead with - that's what the 'o' and 'x' symbols are for.  You generally use the hihat pedal note for indication when you specifically want the sound of the foot closing the hihat, eg. if you were alternating hits between your right hand on the ride cymbal and left foot on the hihat pedal.