round notes

Topic: round notes (Read 47932 times) previous topic - next topic

round notes

2005-08-10 04:26 am

Hi,
Can anyone tell me how to get round notes instead of the oval notes ?
Would greatly appreciate any and all assistance.
Thank you.
Have a great day,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #1 – 2005-08-10 08:41 am

Hi Pat,
the most effective answer I can think of would be to use a font editor to modify a copy of the NWC font file and change the actual characters used to create the noteheads.

For NWC2 this would be the NWC2STDA.TTF and for NWC1.75 the file is NWCV15.TTF. There is precedent for this with the Jazz font available for NWC1 on the scripto...

Of course you would need to make sure you have backups in case anything went wrong...

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #2 – 2005-08-13 06:08 am

Hi,
Thanks Lawrie. I tried to do it, but ended up with a huge black line instead of the enlarged staff lines. I will continue to give it a try with other font editing programs though.
Have a happy day,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #3 – 2005-08-13 06:55 am

Hi Pat,
let us know how you get on... I've some ideas that I want to try out myself but I'll need to buy a font editor first.

I've used up my trial period on the one I like (Font Creator) so I can't actually help at the moment, but if you're still having problems when I manage to buy it I'll see what I can do.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #4 – 2005-08-15 03:30 am

Lawrie, you can make fonts with Coreldraw. I use it quite a lot and use them in Noteworthy.i.e for the underscore line after a lyric word on a long note and other obscure symbols.i.e the jazz 'swing' notation {quaver-quaver=crotchet-quaver triplet). Maybe I should try to make round notes.

Re: round notes

Reply #5 – 2005-08-15 03:56 am

Hey llucyy,
I'm sure Pat would appreciate the help!

Not being a Corelldraw user myself, I didn't realise that it had a font editor though now I think about it, it make sense.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #6 – 2005-08-15 03:32 pm

Hi,
Thanks to you both. I have corel draw nine. I'll give it a try.
Have a happy day,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #7 – 2005-08-16 11:43 am

You might want to try the following open source java app:
http://doubletype.sourceforge.net/

Haven't tried it myself (found my old Fontographer disk, so I don't need it), so I can't say whether it's any good, but if it does what it says, you should be able to create your desired font.

HTH

Re: round notes

Reply #8 – 2005-08-16 12:14 pm

If the above link is denied, simply type the URL manually.

I might look at this program, or not. Superficially, it might be good for editing an existing font, but it doesn't look like it has enough muscle for someone who actually wants to create a font.

If you do edit a font, keep in mind that since control points are often placed on a grid, the edited font might not quite align with other things the way it did before. That's not much of a problem for a text font, but could be a problem for a graphics font (such as the NWC fonts) that need to align with objects such as note stems.

Re: round notes

Reply #9 – 2005-08-16 01:15 pm

Forget font editing. The original question, how to make round note-heads, has an extraordinarily simple solution. It works in NWC2 (not NWC1).

Use "Wingdings" as a user font. Probably size 10-12 points,depending on your staff size.

For any note that you want a round note-head, make the existing note-head invisible. This is a feature of NWC2.

Then, just in front of the note-head, get a text box. The "l" of Wingdings is a solid circle. Looks good. You might have to play with the alignment relative to the stem, but probably the default is OK.

That's all there is to it. If you have to do this for a lot of notes, then you will have to treat each not separately. If a million notes are involved, I suppose the substitution could be scripted (but I don't know how).

Windgdings also has an open circle. It is slightly larger than the solid circle, so you might define a second instance of Wingdings as a user font, at slightly smaller point size.

There are many other possibilities. For example, if you would like the note A = apple, B = banana, C= cherry (pictures of fruit as note-heads), you can find food-themed fonts free for noncommercial use. Of course, the printout would have to be large enough to see the little fruit drawings.

As for the doubletype program, apparently it does not open an existing True Type font. It merely allows you to create one from scratch. Probably not what you want. But if you want to create a few custom characters as a user font (rather than editing a NWC font), then it might work.

Re: round notes

Reply #10 – 2005-08-16 01:43 pm

Hi Robert,
I beg to differ my friend. Pat's need is to regularly produce charts that her husband can read when shown on their large screen TV (perhaps you didn't see https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5105 where this has also been partly discussed)

While headless notes in NWC2 will allow one to then place a text alternative notehead it is a tedious practice. There could be hundreds of notes to be fixed. While I'm sure a user tool script could be written to do the job, I'm not sure it's the best solution...

My suggestion of modifying a copy of the standard NWC font to replace the oval note heads would allow Pat to simply key in her music with a normal configuration and the altered font would supply the round noteheads she desires automatically.

No additional work required, just 3 characters in the font to be modified. It would be different if this were a one off, but it is a regular requirement.

An altered font works well, I'm already using a modified font to get a more "jazzy" appearance for my charts that includes modified noteheads. I will say that I'm not completely happy with it though. The technique works fine, I'm just not satisfied with some of the modified characters. I "borrowed" most of them from other fonts and they look too "left handed" for my tastes. I guess I'm just gonna have to try to create my own from scratch - when I can buy the font editor I want to use...

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #11 – 2005-08-16 09:26 pm

Twice I've downloaded Doubletype, and twice have failed to get it to open, let alone work. I am no doubt doing something wrong...

I also had a trial copy of Font Creator, but like an ass, let it expire before I got round to using it. Stupid, I know.

Re: round notes

Reply #12 – 2005-08-16 10:11 pm

Yes, it seems this DobleType application I talked about earlier, is quite useless. Sorry about that.

Then I fear the only option is to use either CorelDRAW! or FontCreator, none of which are free tools.

BTW, Fontlab's TypeTool ( http://www.fontlab.com/Font-tools/TypeTool/ ) is about the same price as FontCreator ( http://www.high-logic.com/products.html ).

Personally I found FontCreator too slow and cumbersome to work with. Even though my old Fontographer lacks some fancy editing stuff, it's still far easier to work with, but, unfortunately, around 4 times FontCreator's price.

There is also the built-in font editing gadget you have in Windows XP (possibly you need to download it from M$, it's free), if you just want to add a few characters to a font. Not sure what it would be called in English, but translated from Swedish it would be Font Editor. True, not the best tool around, but it sort of works...

And, lastly, Noah, a crude PostScript type 1 font, well, "editor":
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/yeahnoah/index.htm (slow/often busy server from where I am)

Free converters between TTF to/from PS type 1 is available online.

Re: round notes

Reply #13 – 2005-08-16 10:18 pm

Just saw this:
> Twice I've downloaded Doubletype, and twice have failed to get
> it to open, let alone work. I am no doubt doing something
> wrong...

Are you sure you have Sun's Java RunTime files istalled?
( http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp )

Did you double-click the "doubletype.jar" file in the "bin" directory?

But in all honesty, since it seems it cannot open/edit an already created TrueType font, it's pretty useless (IMHO).

HTH

Re: round notes

Reply #14 – 2005-08-17 12:36 am

G'day Pär,

You said: There is also the built-in font editing gadget you have in Windows XP ... - could you tell me the actual name of the .exe file?

I've looked for a M$ font editor and the only one I can find reference to on their support site is for Win3.1. Certainly my (English language) WinXP doesn't seem to have one.

Thanks mate,
Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #15 – 2005-08-17 04:05 am

eudcedit is what you want, but as far as I know, it only lets you make a few "private characters." That's a unicode thing, I think, so it won't work in NWC. Its also quite crude. You create a bitmap and it makes its best guess at what the vector should be. If you're interested, PC magazine has a brief tutorial.

Re: round notes

Reply #16 – 2005-08-17 05:11 am

Hey Francis,
thanks. You're right - pretty useless for what Pat needs. As for me, soon's I can arrange it I'll buy Font Creator.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #17 – 2005-08-17 01:36 pm

In reply to Pär, I have the recommended Java run time files, and I did try double clicking the file in the bin folder. Nothing happened.

Re: round notes

Reply #18 – 2005-08-17 02:02 pm

... actually, I did read the original forum post, about why round-head notes are needed.

I'm no programmer. But NWC2 has a scripting capability. It seems to me that auto-replacement of actual note-heads with text-based round symbols, could be scripted. The script would make standard note-heads invisible, then write the appropriate text symbol wherever there is a note.

The advantage to this approach (if it works!) is that it could be used generally, if the script allowed the user to specify which substitution was to be made. It could also work on a pitch-specific basis, which would be applicable to Shaped Notes.

But I am only guessing. If my guess is wrong, then I'll just have to visit the pub and drown my sorrow.

Re: round notes

Reply #19 – 2005-08-17 02:29 pm

G'day Robert,
hmm, point taken. With the appropriate font as a source this is a good idea. I'm thinking primarily of your Shaped Notes in Notehedz.

However, for Pat, I think the wait for someone with the requisite skills may be overly long. I don't even know if she has NWC2, though that is no real problem in itself.

For that reason I think a modified font is more likely to be achieved and thus useful sooner.

As for that beer, go and have it anyway; with no sorrows to drown. Have one for me while you're at it.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #20 – 2005-08-17 02:59 pm

A beer... good idea. I owe a guy a beer...maybe when I'm in town tomorrow....

I'm still interested in any kind of way to get hold of some kind of reasonably priced font making software. I'm here if you want to contact me privately.

Re: round notes

Reply #21 – 2005-08-17 06:31 pm

Many NWC users know that I have the capability to make fonts. But this is harder (more time consuming) than one would think. Taking an existing font and changing a symbol is not especially hard, even if it has to align with other things. But the result would have to be a "user font," and a large round dot is already available. Changing the NWC font runs into the problem that the font must INTERNALLY bear the font identification used by NWC, and that's a different issue. Yes, it has been done. But it can cause problems.

As for a font editor: I use Typetool, a product of Fontlab. I would not call it inexpensive. But it is a strong product. Others have mentioned FontCreator (or is is Font Creator ?), which I have not tried.

For those who did not know: Windows identifies a font by its INTERNAL name, not by its File Name. If you take the "Arial" font and re-name its file to "drsewissdf.ttf" then Windows will still call it "Arial" and use it as such. My point is that you could not have an official NWC font, and a fake NWC font, both installed at the same time. The NWC program will only use a font with the correct name, which means that both fonts would need to have identical internal names, which means that Windows would not know which was which. Either it would pick the first one it came across, or the last one, or neither, or get confused, or simply not allow you to install both.

Re: round notes

Reply #22 – 2005-08-17 06:46 pm

[Robin Øye]
> I have the recommended Java run time files, and I did try
> double clicking the file in the bin folder. Nothing happened.

Well, the only thing I can think of is, either you have the wrong version of the JRT files (DoubleType requires at least version 1.42, IIRC, their site is quite buggy, it crashed with a fatal error while it loaded when I was about to check, and now it won't load again, oh, well), or that you have some conflict on your machine.

One other thing you could try is to store the DoubleType directory structure in a path where there are no spaces (i.e. not in c:\Program files\dobletype\ but rather in c:\doubletype\). I know that some Java apps have problems with spaces in the directory names.

You could also try starting the Java control panel (located in Windows' Controlpanel), flip to the advanced tab and play around with the trubleshooting gadgets at the top. Oh, and let the Java engine show the Java console while the app loads. You might see some error message. The console (I think) is off by default, mine was.

Other than that, I don't know. Oh, and it takes almost forever before it starts. Both the Java environment and the application has to start, so it will take some time.

Re: round notes

Reply #23 – 2005-08-17 08:14 pm

[Robert A.]
> make fonts. But this is harder (more time consuming) than
> one would think.

Yes, my first font created from scratch, after returning to Fontographer after about 8 years of not using it, took me about two whole days of messing around before I had something that I could call a font. So, yes, it takes time, huge amounts of it.

> which means that both fonts would need to have identical
> internal names, which means that Windows would not know
> which was which. Either it would pick the first one it came
> across, or the last one, or neither, or get confused, or
> simply not allow you to install both.

Exactly right. There is, however, as always, a workaround (he, he): close NWC, uninstall the original font, install the custom font, start NWC. You can't uninstall a font that is in use by any program.

Pain in the you-know-what, so better look for a font managing tool, such as Typograf ( http://www.neuber.com/ ) or use some freeware manager out there. One I found after a few minutes of looking, is this one: http://members.ozemail.com.au/%7Escef/tft.html
It's a tad old, however, so I don't know if it'll work with XP or any of the newer OpenType fonts available today.

And another one, that took a bit more time to find, but it's quite new: http://www.ampsoft.net/utilities/FontViewer.php This one looks very promising, indeed. :-)

Those who want to know more about TrueType on Windows, go here: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/default.mspx They also have some free, but crude, tools available for download.

Re: round notes

Reply #24 – 2005-08-17 08:42 pm

Good links, Pat. "The Font Thing" is well-known; I used it on Windows 98. But as you noted, the site hasn't been updated, so I haven't tried it with XP, especially since I don't really need the functionality. The Ampsoft FontViewer works, and has similar capability (just tried it on XP).

Using such a program, the user would need to (1) open the font manager, while NWC was still closed; (2) un-install the NWC font; (3) temporarily install the "fake-NWC" font; (3) Open NWC, and do the work; (4) when done with NWC, use the font manager to un-install the fake NWC font, and re-install the original NWC font.

To avoid confusion the real and fake fonts would need to be in different folders.

All of that is possible, but my question is, how often does this need to be done? I understand the predicament, but that would be a lot of work. Maybe the original problem would be better solved by something other than a music notation program, in the first place. I need to keep in mind that the requestors of Shaped Notes haven't come back to mention it. It hasn't been mentioned on Shaped Notes user sites, even though I E-mailed a few of them. The request was made, then the requestors disappeared.

I suppose that the NWC program could have a feature that would allow selection of a substitute NWC font, from within the program, at the user's own risk. The substitute font could be named anything, which would avoid the problem of font naming. Unfortunately, I know what would happen: Users would try to use incompatible fonts from other programs, then wonder why there was a problem, and ask for solutions. When the solution was not forthcoming, special fonts would be requested. NWC is not in the business of making fonts.

But that's my two cents' worth; I don't speak for NWC.

Re: round notes

Reply #25 – 2005-08-17 08:43 pm

... not Pat, Pär. Sorry!

Re: round notes

Reply #26 – 2005-08-17 11:54 pm

To avoid confusion the real and fake fonts would need to be in different folders.
I have mine in the same folder (for "storage" purposes).
The original NWC font has its original name, and the jazz NWC font is called NWCjazz.
I have to swap these out periodically, as I am in an orchestra and a big band.
I almost always get orchestral parts with [abbr=often incorrect!]fingerings[/abbr] [abbr=often in pen!]written in[/abbr], or cuts that we don't use, or what-have-you.
So I do up all my parts with NWC.
Same for big band.

Re: round notes

Reply #27 – 2005-08-18 12:26 am

G'day Robert,
I do, and did, understand the issue with the fonts internal name. I, perhaps mistakenly, assumed that the round note heads would be acceptable to Pat for either:
a) the vast majority of what she used NWC for.
or
b) All of what she used NWC for.

I too find the need to change back and forth a pain so instead of some of my charts looking "jazzed up" and some not, they all look "jazzed up". It just isn't important enough to me to change back and forth.

My guess is that Pat would feel the same about round note heads if it saved her a lot of work.

Alternative (non user text) symbol fonts in NWC is on the wish list. I know because I put it there, hopefully others have also. I agree that there could be users who expected NWC to come up with solutions for someone else's font to be fixed. This would not be a new phenomenon, there are ignorant people everywhere. The short answer should be - make your own, or check the scripto. I'm quite sure there are enough of us with the requisite skills to create/modify acceptable fonts for use with NWC should such a facility see the light of day, and be happy to publish on the scripto. Who knows, maybe even some commercial enterprise would take up the challenge and thus raise the profile of NWC.

On the other hand, I would gladly write a user tool to do the note head replacement thingy if I could. Unfortunately I don't have the time (and possibly not the talent) to become a programmer so I cannot.

The font modification I can do (with the right software) and have done for myself (the NWC2 jazz font I'm playing with). If my trial of Font Creator hadn't already expired I would also have already done the note head modification for Pat to try (about 10 minutes work). Getting the alignment right isn't hard. In any case, Pat has access to a font editor in Corel Draw (I believe) so this may well be the easiest answer for her. Otherwise, as soon as I can arrange to purchase the product (could be several weeks yet) I will do so and make the mod. available to Pat to try should she wish to.

...Shaped Notes... The request was made, then the requestors disappeared - It is ever thus, there are always demanding people who never really appreciate the time and effort that goes into fulfilling some of their "little pet projects/wishlists". You certainly have my sympathy.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #28 – 2005-08-19 12:49 pm

I know this isn't a forum for font tools, so feel free to delete my messages, I just thought it might be of interest to someone.

I found another font managing tool, also freeware. Seems like a really nice little gadget, but it looks as if it requires .NET Framework version 1.1 to run, so I guess older Windows versions are out of the question. What caught my interest, is its capability to read ZIP archived font collections. :-)
http://software.fonthit.com/

Okay, I'll shut up about fonts for a while now... ;-)

Re: round notes

Reply #29 – 2005-08-19 02:49 pm

Re: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5113.msg32549#msg32549

Won't work on Win98 even with .NET Framework version 1.1 installed. The link says NT required, but you never know ...

Re: round notes

Reply #30 – 2005-08-31 12:17 am

You can try this. Two downloads, both TEMPORARY:

http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-circles-notehedz-replacer.htm
and
http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/NoteHedz130.zip

The first is a web page (may be downloaded), the second is a zip file with a revised version of "NoteHedz" font. This revision does not alter anything already in the first version; but it adds something.

General idea: Install this version of NoteHedz (earlier version won't work for this). Write your music as usual, with ordinary note heads. Specify NoteHedz as a user font, at the indicated size. Copy your music to the clipboard, producing a NWC clip. Paste it into the web page, and process. The, paste the result back to your music.

Works for me. But of course, I wrote it. The result may or may not be what you want.

The above files will be REMOVED in the near future - probably by September 5, 2005. If this proves useful, I may send it to the Scriptorium. But I have no feedback on it.

Re: round notes

Reply #31 – 2005-08-31 01:16 am

G'day Robert,
I dips me lid to ya sir. That's quite neat.

The staff I tested with had some chords in it, I notice these were not modified. Presumably this is intentional at the moment?

Also, how hard would this be to modify to use the shaped notes/notes with letters that are also in NoteHedz?

Not that I'm asking for myself, I don't have any projects on the horizon that would benefit, but I'm thinking of others. Particularly the education arena.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #32 – 2005-08-31 11:42 am

Yes, the omission of chords was intentional. I'm not sure if that is useful or easy enough to program. One thing at a time.

Have a look at the other current forum thread, ambiguously titled "Feature request," about using letters for note-heads. My current message gives another web page that automates substitution of noteheads that contain letters A-G. This one is trickier, since the substitution is pitch-dependent and clef-dependent. The same method would work for automated Shaped Notes, provided that I add user input regarding which shapes are to be used for which pitches.

Keep in mind that the text note heads are independent of the note (stems) themselves. If you move notes using SHIFT+CTRL+arrow, then the notes (stems) move, but the text noteheads don't move along with them. Also, it is a bear to reverse the operation of substitution (restore original), so the substitution is best done as a final operation before printing, working from a duplicate music file.

Re: round notes

Reply #33 – 2005-08-31 12:43 pm

Hi Robert,

Chords: fair enough.

If you check the "other thread" I've left a bug report

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #34 – 2005-08-31 01:03 pm

Found it. Seems like adding accidentals should be easy enough. But I still don't understand the purpose of round notes, and have no visual examples of such music. Investing the time is tought to justify, if I don't understand the end result.

Re: round notes

Reply #35 – 2005-08-31 01:17 pm

G'day Robert,
But I still don't understand the purpose of round notes....Investing the time is tought to justify, if I don't understand the end result.

I gotta say, I'm inclined to agree. Having seen the results I'm not sure if the oval heads aren't easier to see, however I'm not vision impaired (other than a little myopia) and shape recognition may very well be affected by Pats' husbands particular impairment.

Perhaps sufficient justification is simply trying to help someone with a debilitating problem they cannot solve for themselves.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #36 – 2005-08-31 01:48 pm

Perhaps. But it seems to me that round-head notes, in this context, are not the solution. More to the point, it would be difficult to debug, and changes could not be easily made to a file one the substitutes are in place. It would be easier to use a NWC-font modification, and use it as default. For the purpose requested, NoteHedz is not the way to go.

Re: round notes

Reply #37 – 2005-08-31 04:08 pm

In fact, now that I think of it, round notes are not likely to work well. Here is why:

NWC (1 and 2) places standard note-heads in a bounding box that is rectangular, but not square, to fit the standard oval note-head form. The up-stems and down-stems are placed relative to this bounding box.

A circular note would leave a gap at one end or the other, or both, where it meets a stem. If the circle is expanded to touch the stems, then it will blled over the vertical space allowed in the staff. Widening the staff would be a major program change, which would affect the relative vertical position and vertical lengths of all other items.

Thus, changing the program's music font, by substituting circles for the note-head symbols, would not work properly.

In my demonstration using NoteHedz, the script actually calls different circles (placed differently with respect to the bounding box) depending on whether the stem is up or down. Thus, it must detect auto-direction stems, as well as those with manual over-ride. This was not trivial.

Circles that fit the staff are necessarily smaller than ovals would be. Thus, the original problem, visibility, cannot be solved this way. It is a cute script demo, but not useful.

Therefore, I have removed the version 1.30 NoteHedz font, and the script demo. I have a revised font version 140, which includes the open and closed letter-heads, and eventually it will be on the Scriptorium. Version 1.40 does not alter any characters that have been present in NoteHedz since first release.

Re: round notes

Reply #38 – 2005-08-31 10:34 pm

Given the original reason for the round notehead request I wonder...

Would it really matter if the round notehead was larger than the vertical space allowed in the staff (so that the horizontal dimension of the "note space" used by NWC was filled)? Just how much bleeding would there be? Is it enough to cause other problems? Remember, we're less worried about esthetics here than we are about practicality for a particular vision impairment.

I'd really like to see what Pat's take on this is!

Re: round notes

Reply #39 – 2005-09-02 06:58 pm

Hi All,
First let me say that I am stunned. You have all put in a lot of thought and effort into my difficulties. Thank you all.

One question as to what I'm using, Window XP, Lexmark 2200 All-In-One Printer, copier, Windows Paint, Universal Document Converter, LView Pro, and Noteworthy 2.0s.

I have a Pentium 4 2.6 Ghz, 1024K of Ram, DVDCDRW, gForce 5600 w/256K, Soundblaster Live, Radio Shack Midi Keyboard, DSL internet access.

If anyone is interested, I have posted a copy of the sheet music on my our website, one in round notes, one in noteworthy notes for you to check out. Perhaps seeing a finished product would be of help.

http://www.mullersgoodies.com

Click on Links

Every line, every stem, and some notes have been enlarged for visability. Clicking on the image thumbnail will let you see how big the image actually is.

Robert A.

Sorry but I missed the download you posted. If you'd like to send it directly, you may send it to: Pat@mullersgoodies.com.

As you can see, the fact that there is a space between note and stem would not be a problem, as the stem needs to be enlarged anyway.

Lawrie

Wish I were able to supply the needed software to write a ttf file but limited income prevents that. Also wish I knew how to write one myself, but I fear I have not the talent to do that either.

You guys a wonderful. I am humbled by your caring. Thank you.

Have a happy day,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #40 – 2005-09-02 11:44 pm

Greetings and salutations Pat,
I'm sure I speak for Robert as well as myself when I say it's our pleasure.

You said you had a question "as to what I'm using" but didn't actually ask it...?

I checked out the images, how important is the thickening of the lines/stems? Would enlarging flags be suffucient?

...supply the needed software... - please don't worry about it - we ain't hurtin' - just a small cash flow problem that is now over (end of financial year stuff and customers paying a little late as a result) - I'l be buying it shortly...

Bless ya,
Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #41 – 2005-09-03 12:02 am

Ah, now that I can see the intended result, things have clarified.

My first attempted solution did, indeed, do what you require. But since I wasn't sure, I moved on to other things. The reason I dismounted the example was because if it was wrong, I didn't want a lot of users grabbing something that was incorrect.

As I explained above, the most natural way to solve your problem would be a custom font replacement for the NWC font, which would be automatically used whenever it is installed in your system folder in place of the "real" NWC font. Making the modification is easy from the technical standpoint, but impossible from the commercial standpoint: The modified font must be internally named as if it were the real NWC font. Kinda like fake "Rolex" watches. Even so, this approach necessarily leaves gaps, and there is no way to thicken the stems (since that is set by the program, not as a user adjustment).

The ultimate solution is beyond the control of users, except for those who have a mind to hack (I don't). It would involve (a) greater vertical distance between staff lines, without greater horizontal distances, so that the bounding box for note-heads becomes square; and (b) an alternative font with the round note heads, and (c) the capability to choose the alternate vertical spacing and alternate font.

This is like saying, Chevy with Ford engine. It can be done. But it is not simple.

The solution that is within user control: Take a look at the other forum threads, about "feature request" and "shaped notes...". Those will lead you to some web pages that perform note-head substitutions. It is easy for me (or others) to change a few variables in the script, so that round heads are substituted. If the ones that already exist in other fonts don't work, then I can put them in NoteHedz (maybe).

However, the user solution can only be used at the very last moment, just prior to printing. What happens is that the visual appearance of the music is altered, in a way that is not easy to reverse or edit. Your music must be ready to go.

Get back to me on this.

Re: round notes

Reply #42 – 2005-09-03 02:22 am

Hi Lawrie and Robert,

...how important is the thickening of the lines/stems?

Most important. Without the thickening, they are invisible on the 61" TV screen.

..."as to what I'm using"

Someone in a previous reply wasn't sure of which programs I was using, so I listed them all in case they were relevant to my original quest for a round note.

Just found out that the sheet music for "Just As I Am" is still not large enough for my husband to see. Have to try 400%.

If either of you use Netscape, if you click on the sheet music, you get a larger version, but if you click on it again you get the actual size of the picture. Huge!

As things stand now, I have to Convert the noteworthy music to a jpg, load the jpeg into paint, darken notes, legs, staff, slur lines, etc.., then I separate the music into 3 to 4 measures per line, move excess measure to another page, move music lines as close as possible, frame everything, save as a bmp, open the bmp into Lexmark software, adjust color to 1 bit (black and white), outline the framed part, copy, paste into paintshop, save results, open in LView, increase DPI to 1200, increase size by 400%, and save as a jpg. Now I'm ready to burn it to a CD. If I'm really lucky it will be usable the first time. Most time I have to resize it again.

Any step that is completed in noteworty, is of a tremendous help. As oval notes are difficult to see on the TV screen, Round notes would be more ideal. I don't draw too well with the mouse, so most times the notes are "wavy".

Thanks again for all of your assistance.

Have a wonderful day,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #43 – 2005-09-03 05:42 am

Hi Pat,
looking at your process I think I can see a way to reduce some of the steps.

If you set the staff size to the maximum (40) in | File | Page Setup | Options | Staff Size - Many of the staff objects will be "denser" to start with. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to thicken the lines used for the staff and notes. You can also "manage" the number of bars per system by setting barline attributes to have a system break. See https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5081.msg32098#msg32098 for a technique that may help.

I'll think about other bits - There are several users who are quite experienced with editing the "EMF" available from the "copy" button in preview. Perhaps editing this rather than going to JPG first will make things easier.

I know there has been some discussion with using OpenOffice to do this as well as other products. There is an excellent discussion in https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=4282 that may be of assistance too.

I'm sure if you post a request for assistance in this area it will be forthcoming - I gotta say I'm pretty dismayed by the number of steps you seem to need to take. It must be possible to simplify this!

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #44 – 2005-09-03 07:46 am

Hi Pat,

I'm afraid all this is way over my head, and I couldn't find the links on your page to the images you wanted to display.

However, that's a lovely looking little trailer!

David

Re: round notes

Reply #45 – 2005-09-03 01:20 pm

Now that I have a clearer idea (I did find the images) ...

Take a look at this (temporary, until September 5, 2005):
http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/jb4.gif

If you like it, you need NWC2 (won't work in NWC1). You will also need version 1.50 or later of the "NoteHedz" font, currently on my own web site and soon to be at the Scriptorium. Any version prior to 1.50 will not work for this particular purpose.

And, you will need this web page, temporary location until September 5, 2005:
http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-roundthick-notehedz-replacer.htm

The scripted web page only operates on melody (single notes), not on chords. Since it alters the music, it should only be used with a backup file.

General observation, to anyone reading this: The above web page (and my others, regarding letter-head notes and shaped notes) are really by way of demonstration. The right thing to do would be for some Perl savant to write scripts that would work internally in NWC2. The original music could be input to the script, and the output could be pasted into an empty staff in the same music. Then, either the original music staff or the altered music staff could be hidden. But I have NO intention of learning Perl, and this is a promise to myself that I intend to keep. Most of the NWC2 activity occurs on the members-only news group, not on this publicly-visible forum.

Re: round notes

Reply #46 – 2005-09-04 05:54 am

Hi Lawrie, David, and Robert,

Lawrie---
I agree with you, but I've tried to cut steps and end up wasting more time. Still.... I'm going to try out the suggestions you gave and see what happens. Let you know tomorrow, ( I hope, need to make the grape jam tomorrow.)

I'm willing to try anything. Robert's Ideas about the notes I think will be a big step.

David---
Sorry you were unable to find the link. It's on the upper far right side, same line as the teardrop button. Glad you liked the teardrop. It's been a job and a half building it. Just need to wire it up, and put in the gas line.

Funny thing happened during the build, we knew we would have to make provisions for hubby, as he uses a Cpap, and Oxygen at night, but just found out that I need oxygen at night also. Seems when you don't take deep breathes while sleeping, you deprive yourself of oxygen, and end up with a major headache every AM.

Now we need two concentrators. Hubby said, and I quote, "If I knew what was to happen, I'd have made an ambulance instead."

Robert--

Jingle bells is perfect! Now, I've downloaded and installed the Notehedz font 1.5, put a song into Noteworthy, set up the print page with user 1 and 2 and saved my results. I found the Notehedz-replacer and tried to put the copied and get a page of text. Don't have any idea of what to do with it.

Help!!!

Have a great day everyone, and thank a million times for the time and effort you've given me.

Best to you and yours,
Pat

Re: round notes

Reply #47 – 2005-09-04 06:23 am

Hi Pat,
you're nearly there:

When you get the page of text that pops up, select all and copy to the clipboard - then change to NWC2 and on the "destination staff", if it is blank, just Paste it in - if it already has music to be replaced, then highlight what needs to be replaced and paste over it.

Lawrie

Re: round notes

Reply #48 – 2005-09-04 09:17 am

Hi Pat,
We have a 1972 Boler, and I use a CPAP machine. An RV battery works adequately, but needs to be recharged daily.

Kind of a nuisance. With 2 gizmoes, you would need 2 batteries unless you camp where there's a hookup. Maybe try a portable generator to charge them up each day? Kind of noisy for camping, though.

As to finding the link, I guess I should learn to read, eh?

Re: round notes

Reply #49 – 2005-09-04 03:12 pm

Pat: As Lawrie wrote above, the "finishing" steps for the replacer are to copy what you see in the pop-up window, then past the text (which is actually musical code) back into NWC2, on a staff. You can over-write the original music (not recommended) or create a new blank staff (recommended) and paste the code there. When printing or playing, you can make one staff or the other non-printing and/or muted.

Just remember that the altered appearance does not self-update, if you make changes. It is a cosmetic change, just like handwriting on sheet music.