Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Topic: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes (Read 7240 times) previous topic - next topic

Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

2005-07-29 06:13 am

Of course with the notes that NWC knows about, its impossible to balance out the rests in a bar after using a dotted/double dotted 64th note. Here's what happens when you try:

Dotted 64th:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:64th,Dotted|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Double Dotted 64th:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:64th,DblDotted|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

But what really gets interesting is when you do it a few times. You eventually get: (see reply 1 because of the limit on number of clips)

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #1 – 2005-07-29 06:16 am

This:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:64th,Dotted|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd,Dotted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

and This:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:64th,DblDotted|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:16th,Dotted
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:16th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:32nd
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:64th,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted
|Rest|Dur:8th,Dotted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Methinks a little taming is necessary..

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #2 – 2005-07-29 06:18 am

Clarification: I'm talking about "Audit bar lines" .. Don't ask me why i didn't just say that in the title.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #3 – 2005-07-29 12:54 pm

Messy, but hardly surprising. A 128th note (which does not exist in Noteworthy land) is needed to get to a down beat. Or a dotted 64th plus a 64th which is way too complicated for the audit function. I don't even want to think about double dots. If I ever ran across this pattern in the real world, I would curse the composer not the programmer.

Simplest solution would seem to be not to allow dots on 64th notes. Not much would be lost, especially if Noteworthy would recognize a triplet while importing midi.

I would rather have Eric spend his time on getting tied notes and multiple rests to sync to the beat. Sometimes I nearly go blind fixing midi imports.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #4 – 2005-07-30 08:31 am

Have you seriously ever used a 128th note in a song? Just put sixteenth notes and put a fast tempo. 64th notes are too hard to read and take a lot of ink from your printer.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #5 – 2005-07-30 02:06 pm

I don't know of many places where you'd find a 128th note. One is in the first movement of the first Bach Sonata for unaccompanied violin. It's a very slow movement. There are two such at the end of measure 3. Doubtless, there are other instances in other works.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #6 – 2005-07-30 05:07 pm

I realize you'd never need a dotted 64th note .. I just had a crazy "what if" idea and wondered what would happen if I tried it, knowing full well it wouldn't work.

Simplest solution would seem to be not to allow dots on 64th notes.

I agree .. it would be something so as not to confuse the novice.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #7 – 2005-07-30 05:35 pm

Thanks for the report. We are not going to disallow dotted 64th notes. However, your report does establish an interesting conundrum for the bar line audit. I'll give it some thought.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #8 – 2005-08-03 10:02 pm

Another audit bar line quirk

Preview 1q will not divide a triplet and stops 'auditing' at that point. Example:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=End|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #9 – 2005-08-03 10:35 pm

This behaviour is intentional. It stops at this point so that you can see that there is a problem. A message would probably be better, but at the moment, this is not done.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #10 – 2005-08-03 10:49 pm

It would be nice to have 128th notes.
I've used them on many occasions.

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #11 – 2005-08-04 12:23 am

"This behaviour is intentional."

C'mon now, this is spin. Audit bar lines splits notes repeatedly and without warning. All these cases should stop with a warning similar to what once happened when the program ran into a transposition that it couldn't handle.

An 'no-spin' response would be:

"No, we don't handle silliness like this and don't plan to."
ditto for dotted 64's

Don't get me wrong here: I love the program and am amazed at how responsive you are to users, but ...

Apologies in advance to overseas readers who may be unfamiliar with my use of "no-spin" and "ditto".

Re: Quirk:auditing dotted (and double dotted) 64th notes

Reply #12 – 2005-08-04 10:59 am

Spin? No spin intended here:

As it stands now, the two cases identified in this thread are clearly handled differently by NWC2. The first issue, reported by Francis, is not detected by NWC2, and each iteration of a bar line audit yields a progressively worse result.

In the second case, NWC2 identifies that the triplet group spans across a bar line boundary, and stops the audit at this position. Repeated iterations of the audit will yield the same result until the issue is corrected manually.

It may well be that both of these cases will be dealt with in the same manner by NWC2 in the future...