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Topic: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names (Read 12055 times) previous topic - next topic

Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Ok, I'm not all that new to this. I know how to do a few things, like triplets and grand master staffs, but I am wondering if you can play a sixlet, or a set of 6 notes with a 6 under/over them.

Triplets seem to work, but play too fast. I will not change the tempo tho.

Also, I have a problem with my electric piano staff. I have all these slashes and just chord names on them like Eb(flat)m7. I need to know how to write a slash.

One other thing. I just now noticed that my music has a fivelet. HOW THE HECK AM I SUPPOSED TO WRITE THAT???

Anyhow, thanx for the advice if I get any.

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #2 –
Oops! Answered too quickly: this is incomplete.
For 6-lets, do as with a triplet. Please explain what you mean by "Triplets seem to work, but play too fast"?? Maybe you put them as 32th instead of 16th? try this: select the 6 of them, and press "-" once. Then play it again to see if it is now correct.

How to write a slash? Well, it depends on what you want. NWC doesn't "understand" slashes that way, so you have to enter the chords. If you want already done sets of chords, have a look at the helpful section, in NWC Files section (chordcharts).
There are also fonts there, but you'll have more on the boxmark2 font at http://tinyurl.com/3gdvy: the slash character with that font is what you need.

HTH!

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #3 –
well, I have a played copy of the music i am writing. The thing is that the music plays just a little bit different than my music, for ex length diffs, etc. When I play my triplet, it plays faster than the played music's sixlet. But maybe u r right. I don't know.

Thank you for all of your help!

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #4 –
The n-tuplets thing is a longterm wishlist item.  Maybe one day?

Six notes of the same value can be tripletized as long as they don't cross a bar line, there's no reason for them to play back any differently than if they were two groups of triplets.

I don't think I've ever seen a "6-let" to indicate 6 notes to be played in the time of 4.  It's more common to see a group of 7 notes or perhaps 5 notes marked with a bracket and a 6, meaning play 7 notes (or 5 notes) in the time of 6 notes of the same value.  This may be what you're seeing.  Regardless, NWC does not support this (yet, I hope).

For chord symbol entry, use two layered staffs.

The first staff will be full of hidden rests and hidden muted notes, wherever you want the slash to appear.  For the slash, use a forward slash in plain text, entered as text, padded with space as needed, placed in front of the beat you want it to appear at, and aligned with the next note.

The second staff should be full of quarter rests and bar lines, all set to be invisible, plus the lyric editor.

Write your chord symbols first in the lyric editor for that staff (Ctrl-L).  Leave a space between each chord symbol.  You can't use a minus sign for chords like Gm-7, since it will be interpreted as a space, so you'll have to use one of the ASCII signs (I forget which one) that you get by holding down the alt key and typing a number from your keypad.

I suggest pressing enter after the last chord in each section of your song - it will be easier to correct errors if each line in the lyric editor signifies a new rehearsal letter.

The chord symbols will act like syllables, lining up with the next note.  After closing the lyric editor, wherever you want the next chord symbol to be displayed, replace the quarter rest with a hidden, muted quarter note.

For the slash, I generally use a combination of hidden muted notes and a text-based forward slash from the regular keyboard, aligned to the centre of the next note.
 

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #5 –
"I don't think I've ever seen a "6-let" to indicate 6 notes to be played in the time of 4. It's more common to see a group of 7 notes or perhaps 5 notes marked with a bracket and a 6, meaning play 7 notes (or 5 notes) in the time of 6 notes of the same value. This may be what you're seeing."

David, this isn't quite correct - The figure above always shows exactly how many notes you are splitting the main beat into. Thus a note which normally subdivides into 2 eg. a crotchet (quarter note), can be split into 3,5,6 etc However the time values employed change. In simple time, Still taking the note to be divided as a crotchet (quarter note), the time values would be as follows:
3 notes (triplet) would be written equal to 2 of the same kind. i.e. quavers (8th notes)
5, 6, 7 notes (quintuplet) would be written equal to 4 of the same kind. i.e. semiquavers (16th notes)
9,10,11,13,15 notes would be written equal to 8 of the same kind. i.e. demi-semiquavers (32nd notes)
17, 19 etc notes would be written equal to 16 of the same kind. i.e. hemi-demi-semiquavers (64th notes)

Of course if the main beat is a minim (half note), then the above values would be doubled, and if the main beat is  a quaver (8th note), then the values would be halved, etc.

Compound time is treated slightly less consistently as there are commonly only two types of division - into 2 or into 4. So a dotted crotchet (quarter note)divided into 2 can be shown as either 2 quavers (8th notes) with the figure 2 above, or some composers occasionally show it as 2 crotchets (quarter notes) with the figure 2 above. In the same way, a dotted Crotchet (quarter note) can be divided into 4 shown as 4 semiquavers (16th notes) or sometimes as 4 quavers (8th notes). The same rules apply if the main beat is a dotted minim (half note) or a dotted quaver (8th note) with the values correspondingly being doubled or halved of course.

Thus in every case, the figure above shows the acutal divided number of notes - and the figure 6 representing 6 notes to be played in the time of four of the same kind is actually a very common occurrence. I've been notating a Kuhlau piece during the past few days which has many sextuplets and I have resorted to using the correct 6 notes beamed, but splitting them into 2 groups of triplets. Desired effect but not really visually acceptable - This multi-plet ability is one of my main pleas for the wishlist.

I hope I've explained things ok - I found I was getting a bit tangled between the two (US v. UK) value terms and also the halving and doubling - too early on this holiday morning to think!

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #6 –
Hi Ann,

Good thing I wrote "I don't think I've ever seen..." instead of "There's no such thing as...", eh?

I accept your explanation of how the subdivision works - I didn't know that before, and it makes sense to me.  Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it.

I thought I had seen it the other way as well - playing fewer notes in an expanded amount of time - in some pit orchestra charts, but for the life of me I can't figure out why it would have been needed, so it was likely just my imagination.  Back to the eggnog.

Where you write "... sextuplets and I have resorted to using the correct 6 notes beamed, but splitting them into 2 groups of triplets" - have you considered just tripletizing the entire 6 note group?  You'll get one bracket instead of two, and you'll still get the right time values.

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #7 –
"Duplets" have two notes played in the time of three.  While not common they are sometimes found.  Thus, in 3/4 time two quarter-notes (crotchets) with a "2" above them fill a measure, each one being played as a dotted quarter (crotchet).

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #8 –
Just check a music dictionary, and "quadruplets" also fill the bill, being four notes in the time of three.

Interestingly, under "sexolet" (six in the time of four) it states "There should be a clear indication in writing as to whether the six notes are meant to form three groups of two each, or two groups of three each.  Unfortunately, there is no agreement regarding the proper way to doing this..."  One of the suggestions (for sixteenth notes/demi-quavers(?)) involves the notes in each group being joined by two beams, but the groups being joined by a single beam.  I don't thing this can be done in NWC, even with layering.

I seem to remember seeing a website promulgating a notation using two numbers, one specifying the number of notes (not really redundant, since you can "triplitize" two notes, one twice the length of the other) and the number of notes of the same value they are replacing.  Thus 3 / 2 (my own notation, if forget what was proposed) indicates a regular triplet, while 3 / 4 indicates three notes in the time of four of the same duration.  While this isn't a useful case (you could just double the notes) it would allow the distinction of 7 / 6 and 7 / 8, which probably can't be specified any other way.

My wish list item (which I guess I should repeat) was exactly for such a specification, where the -tuple would be defined by giving two numbers, as above.

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #9 –
Cyril, I've seen the two number presentation, I think the separator is a colon, i.e.,  3:4

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #12 –
Actually Cyril (replying to Reply 7), Duplets are frequently found in compound time - as much as triplets are found in simple time. eg. in 6/8 time, there would be 2 main beats in a bar (each being a dotted crotchet or quarter note) and each beat could be divided into the usual 3 quavers/8th notes or a duplet (2 quavers beamed with a 2 on top).

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #13 –
But, really, I don't really care about this stuff. I mean it's informing and all but... could we keep it on topic?

Now. Thanks for the info.

If I wanted to write a measure with a whole note and a quarter rest in a chord, how would I do that?

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #14 –
Ben, you asked about sixlets and ninelets and chord names.  Seems to me that all of the replies until #13 (yours) were right on topic.  If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question!!!

To answer your NEW question, enter a quarter rest first.  Set it to stem down.  Move it up or down, to where you would like it to be.  Then, enter a whole note, with the stem set in the opposite direction, just as you would enter any other note in a chord (ctrl-enter)

I believe the rule is the shorter value element must be entered first, and the stem direction must be different.  It doesn't matter that neither the quarter rest nor the whole note has a stem, the program requires you to pretend they do.

Happy new year.

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #15 –
ok. Thanxs

I will now quit posting under this unless I have a question about this stuff.

Thanxs alot!

Re: Sixlets & Ninelets. How about cord names

Reply #16 –
For duplets there's a very easy work-around (yes, I too have asked for n-tuplets in the wish list).  But it only works if you just want sound.  You still need to resort to another method if you want print.

Say you want two crotchets (quarters) in your duplet (to take the time of three):  Simply put dots after them.  It works in triple time (3/8, 6/8, etc), and - if you need it - duple time (2/4, 4/4, C, etc).

Happy new year, if your calendar has changed,
Ewan