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Topic: staves with different time signatures (Read 2646 times) previous topic - next topic

staves with different time signatures

Good morning to you.
I came across a score in which at one point the tenor staff and the bass staff have different time signatures. I am attaching the score for greater clarity.
In bars 6 to 9, 15 to 18 and 24 to 27 the tenors and basses have different time signatures.
I solved it "roughly", by inserting fake notes (mute, without text and not visible) that filled the spaces created by the different time signatures. I put the code of the various parts.
I'm wondering if there's a more elegant way to approach this.
Thank you.
Lorenzo

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Key|Signature:Bb|Tonic:F
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|User|XText.hmm|Pos:-45|Scale1:125|Text1:"Trai-la la la... Trai-la la la...%br% %br%Se la Marieta è picola,%br%ghe farem fare i zocoli,%br%ghe farem fare i zocoli%br%per farla comparir.%br% %br%Trai-la la la...%br% %br%Ghe farem fare un abito%br%de trentasei color,%br%ghe lo farem tagliare%br%da trentasei sartor.%br% %br%Trai-la la la...%br% %br%Cossita messa in ordine%br%ghe troverem l\'amante,%br%nol cercherem gigante%br%ma ben proporzionà.%br% %br%Trai-la la la..."
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Lyric=Never,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #1
Hi Lorenzo,

In my opinion, yes, there is a more elegant solution.

Your 9/8 measures can be considered the same as 3/4 with triplets - Likewise the 6/8 can be considered a 2/4 with triplets.

So to achieve this, in the 9/8 measures, tripletise the notes . Likewise in the 6/8 measures.

You can then use the marker function (@) to hide the triplets.

If you are prepared to copy the nwctxt to a text editor, you can completely move the triplet marks to position 2000 or -2000 where they can't even be seen as grey in the editor (many people do not like this bit)

In the attached sample file, the first two measures are just with the @ marker making the triplet invisible (grey)  . In the final two measures, I have moved the triplet markings completely out of view. so that they cannot be seen in the editor.

Hope this helps.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:1|CaretPos:-1
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2023 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|TimeSig|Signature:9/8
|Key|Signature:Bb|Tonic:F
|Marker|Pos:-7.5|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Marker|Pos:0|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:5
|Marker|Pos:0|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0
|Bar
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:9/8
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:5
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:2
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Key|Signature:Bb|Tonic:F
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Marker|Pos:0|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Marker|Pos:0|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:7
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:8
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3
|Marker|Pos:-2000|Target:Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:8
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Rich.

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #2
Rich, you beat me. I had the same idea. I'm not sure how you have a 9/8 time signature governing the 3/4 tripletized measures. I had the measures governed by a hidden 3/4 after a visible 9/8.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:2|CaretIndex:16|CaretPos:3
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2023 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:2
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|TimeSig|Signature:9/8
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4|Visibility:Never
|Marker|Pos:8.5|Target:Slur,Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Marker|Pos:8.5|Target:Slur,Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Marker|Pos:8.5|Target:Slur,Triplet|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #3
Thanks to both of you. I really wouldn't have thought of the triplet solution, but let's face it... my musical culture doesn't go that far.
I will calmly and patiently apply your instructions. There are few measures to arrange with class!
Thanks again and good evening.
Lorenzo

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #4
If you are prepared to copy the nwctxt to a text editor, you can completely move the triplet marks to position 2000 or -2000 where they can't even be seen as grey in the editor (many people do not like this bit)
Well, that's exactly what I hate: the score behaving in a odd way without any hint in edit mode.
Another example of my pet peeves is a muted invisible note...


Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #6
Another example of my pet peeves is a muted invisible note...
It is far less annoying than an unmuted invisible note, that taunts you to try to find it.

Sometimes I sing invisible notes, or even invisible accidentals, or something in between :-[ ,  but the director of our choir  >:( doesn't like that.
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #7
This old tip might help: User Tip Don't try the link on that page--I don't have that website anymore.

Edited change:  Look for the Aligns 6/8, 9/8 etc into triplet beats[/b[ user script and install it   It is found in
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/wp/
Since 1998

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #8
Rich: 
I asked you this in my reply #2, but you may not have seen it:
I'm not sure how you have a 9/8 time signature governing the 3/4 tripletized measures. I had the measures governed by a hidden 3/4 after a visible 9/8.

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #9
Rich: 
I asked you this in my reply #2, but you may not have seen it:
I'm not sure how you have a 9/8 time signature governing the 3/4 tripletized measures. I had the measures governed by a hidden 3/4 after a visible 9/8.
Sorry,  I thought that was just saying that I had missed a bit of the solution.  Strictly, your hidden 3/4 is more correct. My version works simply because everything adds up in each of the staves for the section of music that is being transcribed.  Even an audit bar lines passes the test.  (NoteWorthy quirks ?). However, should there have been, say, a blank bar in the middle of the 9/8 sections, then the bar lines would not have added up, and in that case, additional rests would have been added to force the 9/8 bars to their proper length.  Since we do not know what happens in all of the music that Lorenzo is transcribing, it would be far safer to include hidden 3/4 time signatures such as you have done.

Rich,
Rich.

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #10
I do not want and above all I am not able to enter into the merits of the discussion on the subject I have raised. But to show you that "I've done my homework" I am attaching my nwc file and the original score, once again my thanks.
Good evening.
Lorenzo

Re: staves with different time signatures

Reply #11
Se la Marieta è piccola (If Marieta is small)