NoteWorthy Composer Forum

Voglio chiarire il fatto che io uso nwc dal 2005.
In quel momento avevo la versione demo. Poi ho comprato la versione 2,75 e ho detto "finalmente". Poi ho scoperto cool soft, ed ero sempre più felice. Ora non sarebbe male se uscisse un aggiornamento di suoni vst già pronti e subito compatibili. Pagherei senza problemi per acquisire quella marcia in più.

From Google Translate:
I want to clarify the fact that I have been using nwc since 2005.
At that time I had the demo version. Then I bought the 2.75 version and said "finally". Then I discovered cool soft, and I was happier and happier. Now it wouldn't be bad if an update of ready-made and immediately compatible vst sounds came out. I would pay without problems to acquire that extra gear.
====
Sure, native support for VST might be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Not even the big name notation products use native VST.  Instead they use additional products like Garritan to provide a VST environment.  True, for some of them there is a fairly tight integration, but they are still separate products.

What is it you are actually trying to achieve?  I really think you need to define this before you jump down the VST rabbit hole.

If you just want reasonable quality playback of your NWC scores then stick with soundfonts.  It's easy and usually trouble free.
If you want serious processing of the audio you create then get a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that uses VST (pretty much all of them).  In this context, NWC is nothing more than a starting point for getting your ideas into MIDI so that the DAW can render them and allow manipulation of the resultant audio.

For what it's worth I'm not sure VST is what you think it is. 
Do you realise that you don't need a notation product to use VST?  You can record an audio stream directly into a VST system from a microphone, or a guitar, or any other electronic source.   Or you can load an mp3, or Ogg Vorbis, or wav file (amongst others) and go from there.  You don't actually need MIDI or NWC, or any other notation product.
VST is a Virtual recording Studio Technology that happens to be able to take a MIDI data stream and synthesize sounds from the instructions if you have the right plug-in (VSTi).  It's the plugins, VSTi's and VSTfx's that do the work.

Did you check the Wikipedia link I posted earlier?  It is definitely worth reading.
Here it is again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Hi Raffaele,
I'm glad we had this conversation.  I realise that it may have seemed lengthy and like it was going around in circles sometimes, but I also think that there are others reading it that now have a much better idea of what VST is and isn't about.

Had we not corresponded then they would still be in the dark.

Be well and enjoy

<snip>
In practice now the NWC plays the sounds of the VST but evidently struggles and plays them in slow motion.
So the virtual cable works.
Maybe my RAM doesn't have the strength to make it all work. or it's a latency problem. I will try to download Asio4all

This isn't what I'd call a latency problem, which is more of a delay rather than slow motion.


I think it is probably related to the VST host, but could you tell me if the note chase in NWC has slowed down, or does the note chase happen at normal speed and only the sound is slow?

Please check this before installing ASIO4all if it's not too late.

È tutto molto lento.
Anche se ho un metronomo di 120 la musica va a 20 bpm

From Google Translate:
Everything is very slow.
Even though I have a metronome of 120 the music goes at 20 bpm
More ... LikeQuote
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I assume this means the note chase is also slow.  I have no idea how this can be so.
I could understand if the note chase was normal speed and the sound was slow, but not both because as far as I know there is no 2-way communication from the synth back to NWC.

Does anyone else have a clue?  Am I missing something obvious?

Well, when you don't have enough resources (RAM/CPU), then this is most probably the reason an "under-performing" system, because sound synthesis requires quite some resources.

You can verify your resources yourself by opening the task manager (when you right click in the taskbar, you can find the task manager link). If CPU or Memory or even disk pass 90%, then your PC cannot follow the software.
If you are lucky you can stop other resource consuming programs (like mail/browser/video software/...) and get a reasonable sound.
If that is not sufficient, you could opt for a "smaller" soundfont (if working with soundfonts) or less effects (if using VST based music).

I have tested different soundfonts in combination with virtual midi synth like
(*) Yamaha-C5-Salamander-JNv5.1.sf2 (591 MB),
(*) TOH-GM_GS_XG_SFX.sf2 (370 MB)
(*) titanic.sf2 (280 MB)
(*) SGM-V2.01.sf2 (235 MB),
(*) FluidR3_GM.sf2 (144 MB)
(*) WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB)
(*) sinfon36.sf2 (44 MB)
(*) merlin_gm36.sf2 (32 MB)
(*) Choir.sf3 (32 MB)
(*) GeneralUser_GS_SoftSynth_v144.sf2 (30 MB)
(*) merlin_plus23.sf2 (16 MB)
(*) Jeux14.sf2 (4 MB) - but this overwrites the first channels with only Organ sound

Finally I have chosen to install the relative small, older soundfonts WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB) and WST25FSTein.SF2 (21 MB) and I am very happy with it.

A long time ago I also tried to route the midi output to the virtual patch cables (MidiOx) and into a VST (synthfont), to get a long reverb for a church organ, but I did that only for one piece. 

What I recently did, was
(*) exporting an NWC file as midi
(*) recording my own voice with audacity
(*) importing both in LMMS (a free DAW) and adding soundfonts/VST's/effects/automations to the differents tracks
(*) export the final result in an MP3 file.
Maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but until I find something better, this is how I will work, I think.

Bart

La stereofonia la ottengo con multipoint controller e devo dire che è indispensabile.

Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...

Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...

I tried to handle these values (127-0) But practically nothing happens. The sounds remain central.
With the Multipoint controller, on the other hand, I had a good spatial arrangement

The only way I can think of that this might happen is if there is another staff, below the one you set, that is on the same channel and has the pan settings at 64.

E.G. Staff1 is Trumpet 1 is on, say, channel 3 with pan at 25, BUT Staff2 is Trumpet 2 and is also on channel 3 but with pan at 64.  Because both staves are on the same channel the last staff processed defines all the staff settings for both staves, including pan settings.

Two files attached each with 2 staves:
PanDemo1.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on different MIDI channels (1 and 2), left, then right, then left again etc. and plays back that way.
PanDemo2.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on the SAME MIDI channel (1), staff 1 is set left and staff 2 is set right but on playback everything from both staves is to the right

Intanto i canali "normali" sono 15. Il canale 10 è riservato alle percussioni.
Poi puoi usare più sintetizzatori ("device"), ognuno con i suoi 15+1 canali. La vecchia soundblaster live aveva 2 synth HW!

Va bene che in una banda ci sono molti strumenti, ma le trombe possono usare più pentagrammi ma condividere lo stesso canale MIDI.
Idem per i flauti, e i clarinetti ecc...

E poi guarda che non sei tenuto a usare un canale per un solo (tipo di) strumento.
Se in quel momento uno strumento non deve suonare, il canale è utilizzabile per un altro, salvo poi rifare il cambio.
Per anni ho usato una Gem che aveva solo 5 patch (leggi: canali) contemporanee.
Non sarà sempre un pieno orchestrale, no?

Guardati qualche esempio nello scriptorium.
Cosa ne dici dei "Quadri" orchestrati da Ravel?

Si ok funziona! grazie.
Ho notato che il massimo di canali sono 16.
Ma è impossibile non mettere 2 strumenti in un canale.. . In una strumentazione di orchestra e Banda sarebbe praticamente impossibile.

I quadri di ravel? Se mi dai il link lo ascolto con piacere

Basta cercare nello Scriptorium: Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. Non posso passarti il link diretto perché Rich, onde evitare casini, ha fatto in modo che non fossero possibili.

Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?
....

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

It is a midi stream sent to a PATS system  ( https://freepats.zenvoid.org/ )

may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Molto interessante questa banca dati.

Nooooo ! Those are the soundfonts used. 

I was answering your question :

Oh, yes, and we have to thank Rich for that.
I'm surprised it looks new to you: Lawrie already directed you there many times in this very thread!

LIKE:

Merlin_GMpro(v3.15)

I really like the trombone sound and none of the other sounds I've used irritate me enough to look further at the moment.

Sto imparando una cosa alla volta.
In questo forum sono molte le cose che per me sono una lingua sconosciuta.
Però sono sulla buona strada.
Oggi ho scaricato una Daw e ho ascoltato molti dei lavori di scriptorium. Ho fatto progressi importanti e vi ringrazio per i post interessanti

I finally came to conclusions by downloading, installing and uninstalling software
1) to load vst vouchers you need a powerful computer
2) if I load some mediocre vst, the pc loads them all in all but the sf2 sounds are still better.
3) exporting to midi, some Daw can read midi with vst, but if I already add tracks the Daw crashes. Perhaps because the ram is not enough.
Thank you. It was also thanks to you if I made these steps forward.

From Google Translate:Hi Raffaele,
I wonder if you could tell us what your computer configuration is?
Brand and model if it's a "name" type machine (E.G. Dell, Lenovo, HP, ASUS etc.)
CPU model and speed
How much RAM (and speed if you know)
Disk space (and how much is free)

For our purposes that's probably all that's necessary.  Thanks.

Sorry for the delay.
Lenovo
AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics 2.00 GHz
Ram 8 Gb
x64 bit
Free space HD 85 GB on 460

From Google translate:Thanks Raffaele.
From what I'm reading it's pretty low powered in comparison with many systems.  Also 8Gb of RAM isn't really a lot for a 64bit system.
I can't advise whether it's economically worthwhile upgrading the RAM but I would recommend a minimum of 16Gb for 64bit Windows.
For what it's worth, when I was still making a living in IT the MINIMUM free disk space you wanted to have on a Windows system disk was 20% of total capacity.  You're down to 18.5%.  Remember, this is only a rule of thumb so there's no need to really worry about it, 85Gb is actually a huge amount of space, but if it was my system I think I'd do a bit of a cleanup.  Deleting old temp files is a great place to start.  It isn't so much the amount of space the temp files use, but rather the number of them.  The more files in the temp structure the more file handles windows has the track and this can really slow performance*.

Win 10 comes with a disk cleanup app, run it and see what space it you can recover.  I would delete temporary files, and maybe temporary internet files (this might impact any tabs you use a lot), possibly empty the recycle bin unless you use it a lot. 
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I am not in front of your machine so any advice like this is a guess, not definitive, though it's normally quite safe to delete temp files.  It's always best to have a full backup first.

I seriously think that modern VST applications will be very unhappy in this environment.  Stick to a plain softsynth like Coolsoft for best performance.

* I remember a clients machine many, many years ago that used to take around 10 minutes to boot.  They would literally start the machine and go have morning tea while they waited for it to start.  I was looking into a problem on another machine in the same area and they mentioned how bad it was.  I had some time so I checked it out.  I forget the number of temp files it had, but I have a feeling it was almost 1,000,000.  I do remember it took a long time to delete them all.  Afterwards the machine would boot in around 1 minute.  Quite a difference wouldn't you say?  It also ran considerably faster.  This was probably around 2000 so maybe win95 or 98.  Recent versions of Windows handle temp files much much better, but a cleanup is always a good idea.

I have already done everything that was possible. But unfortunately it just fails.
With coolsoft it goes great.
Mine was an exploratory activity to see if with this pc I could buy some VST Garritan sound packs etc.
I think I will have to buy a new pc
Thanks again

From Google Translate:
Happy to have been of some assistance.

I have another call for help.
Lately I bought some sf2 where it was written that there were 10 types of violins etc.
But in choosing the instrument he always gives me only one type of violin. Also in the tree that I have downloaded, the sounds do not correspond with the choice. Only the nvc tree matches with the sound. But it only lets you choose 2
Eg String ensemble 1 is string ensemble 2

\General MIDI

\General MIDI\Piano=Bank(0,0)
Acoustic Grand Piano=0
Bright Acoustic Piano=1
Electric Grand Piano=2
Honky-tonk Piano=3
Rhodes Piano=4
Chorused Piano=5
Harpsichord=6