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Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lawrie Pardy on 2021-12-13 12:02 am

Title: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2021-12-13 12:02 am
Hi all,
after looking into @Flurmy 's little issue here: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=10126.new#info_72826
I thought it might be worthwhile if we took the time to share our preferences regarding Soundfonts.

As I'm sure anyone who has spent any time looking for a soundfont that suits them knows, it can be a very long and frustrating exercise, so I thought it could be good if we pooled our discoveries. 

Which soundfonts do you like, which ones do you dislike and reasons for both.

Bear in mind, this is all subjective and should NOT be considered an objective critique as your mileage WILL vary.  My personal priority is for good sounding winds, particularly brass.  Of course my interpretation of good and yours will surely be different.  My preferences are heavily informed by my trombone playing.  If you are, say, a piano player I'm sure piano sounds will be your priority, ditto if you are a string or reed player etc..

Something I've found interesting.  In many cases certain sounds will be identical between very different soundfonts.  I can only assume there has been a lot of "borrowing" going on between authors, or perhaps many of them have used the same sources for some of their sounds.  Because of my bias for brass I have noticed this particularly in the brass sounds.

I'll kick it off:
LIKE:
Merlin_GMpro(v3.15)                                      I really like the trombone sound and none of the other sounds I've used irritate me enough to look further at the moment.

DISLIKE:
Airfont340The trombone sound is terrible and the Bright Acoustic Piano is trying to be a Harpsicord.  Also seems to have playback problems on Acoustic Grand patch
Airfont380The trombone sound is terrible
Several Creative fonts distributed with soundblaster cards I've purchased over the yearsObviously computer generated, just disappointing, though sax sounds seem to work
Roland (various)These are clearly related to the Roland sounds distributed with Windows and we all know why we don't use that!
Around 20 other soundfonts (list below)For most of them the trombone (and other brass) is just plain wrong.  In many cases strings are good, but I've found a few where violin sounds in particular are sub-standard.  In general they aren't awful, I just don't like them.  YMMV

AMBIVALENT:
Yamaha XG SoundSetThe Yamaha S-YXG50 synth was my goto in XP, but the .sf2 implementation is not nearly as good.  No longer a favourite.  Difficult to find and not worth the effort IMHO.
WeedsGM3.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Musyng Kite.sf2/Evanessence2.sf2Both from the same creator, the latter is the predecessor - Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Timbres Of Heaven GM_GS_XG_SFX V 3.4 Final.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Titanic 200 GM-GS SoundFont 1.1.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
FluidR3_GM.SF2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting

As you might be able to tell, I'm particularly fussy about the brass sounds...  And they're often very disappointing.

List from DISLIKE table:
053.7mg Taiji Generation V6.66 Bank.sf2
38.1mg the atomic soundfont v1.0 bank.sf2
61.9mg_Jurgen_GM_GS_Bank.sf2
65.8mg music man gm gs v1.0 bank.sf2
8Rock11e.sf2
Airfont_340.sf2
airfont_380_final.sf2
Arachno_SoundFont_Version_1.0.sf2
Creative (emu10k1)8MBGMSFX.SF2
Creative Labs 2M GM_2gmgsmt.sf2
Creative Labs 4M GM_4gmgsmt.sf2
CrisisGeneralMidi3.01.sf2
CT2MGM.SF2
CT4MGM.SF2
Hyper-VSC SF-GS v2.sf2
OmegaGMGS2.sf2
Roland SC-55 50 MB by Trevor James.sf2
Roland SC-55 54 MB by Trevor James.sf2
ross.sf2
sYnerGi 200.sf2
sYnerGi 200LE.sf2
sYnerGi-8Mb.sf2
sYnerGiGS.sf2
SYNTHGMS.sf2

Disclaimer:
To the best of my knowledge all of these soundfonts are freely distributed by the authors with the exception of the Creative ones which I progressively acquired as I purchased various Creative sound cards over the past several decades.




Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s) and VSTi
Post by: hmmueller on 2021-12-13 11:56 am
I assume "soundfonts" also includes "VSTi" instruments.

I use:
a) "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra" for most everything instrumental, also piano.
b) "Soundiron Olympus Micro Choir" VSTi in Kontakt 5 player for choral sounds.
c) Chorium.sf2 as a standard soundfont for "internal use", I think I also used it for a few brass instruments a few years ago - but I'm not uptodate here.

H.M.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2021-12-13 08:38 pm
Airfont340   The trombone sound is terrible
I absolutely agree!  ;D

Of course you know that, with the help of some dedicated software, you can make your personal collection of patches (i.e. sounds) picking your best-of-the-best from many different s.f. Do you?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2021-12-14 01:30 am
I absolutely agree!  ;D

Of course you know that, with the help of some dedicated software, you can make your personal collection of patches (i.e. sounds) picking your best-of-the-best from many different s.f. Do you?
Yeah, but I'm far too lazy ;)
The time it would take to just identify the particular patches I'd want in the aggregate set could easily be the rest of my life!  :o
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2021-12-14 06:39 pm
Yeah, but I'm far too lazy ;)
So do I...  :))
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2021-12-14 11:32 pm
Favourite and preferred seem to be words that do not really seem to fit soundfonts.
I seem to use one until such time as I play something and suddenly the sound offends my ears.
I then change to something else.
But of course I also load up "1 instrument" sound fonts where appropriate.

Currently my general soundfont is Evanessence2 which knocked Titanic of the list.  Not perfect but it will do for now.


Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: William Ashworth on 2021-12-15 03:41 pm
I found FluidR3 before it became the soundfont of choice for the Viewer, and I've seen no reason to abandon it for my work in NoteWorthy. In my work in Sibelius, which I've had to take up for situations that require a higher level of engraving than NWC can manage, I use NotePerformer, which is a virtual orchestra that operates as a plugin rather than as a soundfont. My ideal would be a new iteration of NWC with the GUI we all know and love, the same level of engraving tools you can find in Sibelius, and NotePerformer compatibility. Dream on....
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: SEBC on 2022-01-13 12:06 pm
I often use Unison2. I can’t remember why I chose it, but I did listen to several before making the choice.

I have been having an issue with the trombone though. I’m currently composing for trombone and piano. When I use the “play to” feature in NWC2 viewer to create an MP3, the trombone is quite a bit softer than the piano. I have to reduce the piano channel volume to around 60 to balance it out. That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m using Cool Soft VirtualMidiSynth 2.9.3.

Any ideas what the issue is?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-13 08:09 pm
Some thoughts:

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: SEBC on 2022-01-13 09:31 pm
So many great questions. When you say editor, do you mean NWC 2 where I do my composing?

Dynamics are the same as the piano.
My editor uses the Windows computer standard sound font. It sounds fine in the editor. Trombone is its own channel. The muting does not  happen on playback in the NCW Viewer as well. I’m not sure how to check what sound font the Viewer is using. The difference appears constant with the three fonts I have loaded (unison 2 , FluidR3, and Titanic)
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-13 11:08 pm
So many great questions. When you say editor, do you mean NWC 2 where I do my composing?

Dynamics are the same as the piano.
My editor uses the Windows computer standard sound font. It sounds fine in the editor. Trombone is its own channel. The muting does not  happen on playback in the NCW Viewer as well. I’m not sure how to check what sound font the Viewer is using. The difference appears constant with the three fonts I have loaded (unison 2 , FluidR3, and Titanic)

Given point 7 above, is the soundfont used by the player's internal synth the same as loaded in the Coolsoft synth?  If not then this is likely the source of the difference.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: SEBC on 2022-01-15 01:17 am
My editor output is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I’m not sure how to add Unison or whatever to the editor. Or how to add Microsoft to the Viewer (if that will solve the problem).
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-15 04:42 am
My editor output is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I’m not sure how to add Unison or whatever to the editor. Or how to add Microsoft to the Viewer (if that will solve the problem).
To get your preferred soundfont (Unison) working in the editor 3 steps are required, I assume at least 2 of them are already done as you mentioned you have Coolsoft VirtualMidiSynth.

For completeness, the three steps are:

N.B. You cannot add the Microsoft soundset to the viewer as it isn't a soundfont and you need a soundfont for the "play to" feature to work.

If I were doing what you are I would configure coolsoft and the NWC editor as mentioned above, and I would set the same soundfont as used in Coolsoft as the Viewer soundfont.  Then I would select the Viewers output as the internal synth.  (see reply 10 (from me) earlier in this thread)
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2022-01-15 10:38 am
One thing that hasn't been mentioned recently is that the "play to" feature of the Viewer is only available if you are running the 2.8 beta version. (I'm pretty sure that is true, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-15 10:44 am
One thing that hasn't been mentioned recently is that the "play to" feature of the Viewer is only available if you are running the 2.8 beta version. (I'm pretty sure that is true, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
Now I think about it I'm pretty sure you're correct.  Given SEBC mentioned the feature I assume they are running it.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-19 09:51 am
I assume "soundfonts" also includes "VSTi" instruments.

I use:
a) "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra" for most everything instrumental, also piano.
b) "Soundiron Olympus Micro Choir" VSTi in Kontakt 5 player for choral sounds.
c) Chorium.sf2 as a standard soundfont for "internal use", I think I also used it for a few brass instruments a few years ago - but I'm not uptodate here.

H.M.


Hello everyone.
I have bought the NWC in the past and am really happy with it.
Now I would like to go to the next step.
I downloaded the files of the "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra"
I downloaded the Loobe1 virtual cable
Now I don't know in practice how to make them work.
What should I do in practice?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 12:04 pm
Hello everyone.
I have bought the NWC in the past and am really happy with it.
Now I would like to go to the next step.
I downloaded the files of the "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra"
I downloaded the Loobe1 virtual cable
Now I don't know in practice how to make them work.
What should I do in practice?
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: William Ashworth on 2022-01-19 03:43 pm
....the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth....
Not quite all. Some of us use SyFonOne. I find it a little easier to use than CoolSoft, but either of them will work well with soundfonts, and both of them are free.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: SEBC on 2022-01-19 05:13 pm
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-19 06:50 pm
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.


I've been trying to figure out what to download and how to link NWC to VST for some time now. I am already quite discouraged.
Is there sonatina sf2? Very good.
Are the sounds the same as the Sonatina VST?

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-19 07:00 pm
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.


I already use the Virtual midi Synt and I get along very well with the SF2s.
I wanted to start experimenting and opening up to the world of VSTs.
Before buying any Garritans or anything, I wanted to make sure my NWC was compatible.
I can't spend money without the security of being able to use it.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-19 07:11 pm
I already use the Virtual midi Synt and I get along very well with the SF2s.
I wanted to start experimenting and opening up to the world of VSTs.
Before buying any Garritans or anything, I wanted to make sure my NWC was compatible.
I can't spend money without the security of being able to use it.

Eurekaaaa!

I was able to hear the VST sounds.
Now the problem is understanding why they feel uncoordinated. The violins feel first tied then plucked then held etc.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 10:21 pm
<snip>
Are the sounds the same as the Sonatina VST?
I have no idea, I've never used either.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 10:25 pm
Not quite all. Some of us use SyFonOne. I find it a little easier to use than CoolSoft, but either of them will work well with soundfonts, and both of them are free.
Sorry.  Almost all?  ;)
I don't recall having played with SyFonOne though I have heard of it.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 10:30 pm
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.
Hey SEBC,
What issues are you having?
I have a problem where I get timing glitches every so often...  The playback will stumble or very occasionally suddenly speed up as if trying to catch up after a slowdown.  Doesn't happen often and rarely in the same place.  I'm not sure if it's the synth or something else in this Win10 abomination, but while rare it is annoying.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 10:33 pm
Eurekaaaa!
I was able to hear the VST sounds.
Good news!

Quote
Now the problem is understanding why they feel uncoordinated. The violins feel first tied then plucked then held etc.
That one you'll just have to fiddle around with I guess.  Given those are all effects advertised for the Sonatina VSTi I'm sure there will be instructions somewhere that will help.

Using VST and VSTi's is different to using a non VST GM synth.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-19 10:41 pm
Is there sonatina sf2? Very good.
Some Sonatina soundfont links:
https://archive.org/details/SonatinaSymphonicOrchestraSF2
https://beatproduction.net/symphonic-orchestra-soundfont/

Plus a comment from the author:
http://sso.mattiaswestlund.net/
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: William Ashworth on 2022-01-20 04:02 am
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.
The developer's website is at http://www.synthfont.com/About_SyFonOne.html: it's not secure, but I've never had a problem with it. If you're worried about that, try Cnet's download site: https://download.cnet.com/SyFonOne/3000-2170_4-75833849.html.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: William Ashworth on 2022-01-20 04:04 am
BTW, the developer suggests using an ASIO driver. I've actually had better luck without one.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-20 05:44 am
BTW, the developer suggests using an ASIO driver. I've actually had better luck without one.
Yeah, I might have to go that way too...  It's just such a hassle sometimes though.

One big advantage of Coolsoft is there's no need for a virtual MIDI cable, but AFAIK you also can't output to ASIO...
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-20 12:07 pm
Good news!
That one you'll just have to fiddle around with I guess.  Given those are all effects advertised for the Sonatina VSTi I'm sure there will be instructions somewhere that will help.

Using VST and VSTi's is different to using a non VST GM synth.
357 / 5.000
Risultati della traduzione
After yesterday's enthusiasm I have sunk into despair.
The Noteworthy crashes all the time.
I think I'll stick with sf2.
I bought a good SF2 sound set but it's funny how there is no market.
The thing that strikes me most is why Noteworthy composer never thought about making life any more
simple to us who bought the program.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-20 01:04 pm
It is extremely unusual for Noteworthy to crash.  Not saying I've never seen it happen, but it is very rare.

Perhaps if you try a different VST host?

Loopbe is known to work with NWC so I don't expect it is a problem.
As Sonatina comes with its own player maybe you could try a different VST host.  I'm not sure if you can load the Sonatina samples into a third party VST host application or not so you might need to look at a different sound set too.

Of course this is entirely optional.  If you have no desire to experiment in this fashion that's fine.

Now, while I cannot speak for NWC, I am aware that when it was first envisioned MIDI was (and really still is) king.  So NWC was designed to output to MIDI, presumably in order to maximise options.  You can drive any MIDI synth you can connect to, be it internal or external:
Electric piano, organ, keyboard, software synth module, internal sound card (with HW synth), external sound module, VST host &etc.

There is a beta of the viewer that has the ability to load soundfonts, so I'd guess this is a direction NWC was planning to go.  Unfortunately that beta is now 3 years old and there have been no updates so I can only assume that something has gotten in the way of the developer doing this work.  As NWC does everything I need I am happy to await developments.

An inbuilt Soundfont player and/or VST host would be amazing but is not really necessary.  I certainly would not like to lose the current MIDI functionality if that became a necessary tradeoff.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-20 03:32 pm
It is extremely unusual for Noteworthy to crash.  Not saying I've never seen it happen, but it is very rare.

Perhaps if you try a different VST host?

Loopbe is known to work with NWC so I don't expect it is a problem.
As Sonatina comes with its own player maybe you could try a different VST host.  I'm not sure if you can load the Sonatina samples into a third party VST host application or not so you might need to look at a different sound set too.

Of course this is entirely optional.  If you have no desire to experiment in this fashion that's fine.

Now, while I cannot speak for NWC, I am aware that when it was first envisioned MIDI was (and really still is) king.  So NWC was designed to output to MIDI, presumably in order to maximise options.  You can drive any MIDI synth you can connect to, be it internal or external:
Electric piano, organ, keyboard, software synth module, internal sound card (with HW synth), external sound module, VST host &etc.

There is a beta of the viewer that has the ability to load soundfonts, so I'd guess this is a direction NWC was planning to go.  Unfortunately that beta is now 3 years old and there have been no updates so I can only assume that something has gotten in the way of the developer doing this work.  As NWC does everything I need I am happy to await developments.

An inbuilt Soundfont player and/or VST host would be amazing but is not really necessary.  I certainly would not like to lose the current MIDI functionality if that became a necessary tradeoff.

You are very kind to answer. I really thank you!
I downloaded Vsthost as per the explanation downloaded from the site.
initially it worked. Now I don't know what happened but NWC gets stuck.
I downloaded Loopb1, Now it doesn't jam, but it doesn't feel. Can you give me the installation instruction link?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-20 04:07 pm
You are very kind to answer. I really thank you!
I downloaded Vsthost as per the explanation downloaded from the site.
initially it worked. Now I don't know what happened but NWC gets stuck.
I downloaded Loopb1, Now it doesn't jam, but it doesn't feel. Can you give me the installation instruction link?

Did you mean this link?
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-20 04:18 pm
Did you mean this link?
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

Intendo  VST per Dummies Like Me
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/vstfdum.pdf
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-20 04:23 pm
Intendo  VST per Dummies Like Me
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/vstfdum.pdf
Mi spiego meglio.
Queste sono le indicazioni che mi hanno permesso di ascoltare ieri per la prima volta i suoni di Sonatina.
Oggi invece non so come mai ma non funziona più come ieri. Si inceppa NWC.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-20 06:17 pm
Chiarissimo... per me. Per gli altri del gruppo probabilmenteun po' meno.  :D

It's a long long time since I experienced an NWC crash. And I use it a lot.
I suppose it is something outside NWC.

N.B. Virtual midi Synt is based on Bass, the same engine embedded in the NW viewer.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 02:31 am
Mi spiego meglio.
Queste sono le indicazioni che mi hanno permesso di ascoltare ieri per la prima volta i suoni di Sonatina.
Oggi invece non so come mai ma non funziona più come ieri. Si inceppa NWC.
From Google translate:
I'll explain.
These are the indications that allowed me to listen to the sounds of Sonatina for the first time yesterday.
Today, however, I do not know why but it no longer works like it did yesterday. NWC jams.

Umm, OK.  I have no idea why NWC should stop working.
Although, if I recall correctly, you need to make sure the VST host is loaded before you start NWC.  If it isn't, NWC shouldn't crash, but just not make any sounds.
To be clear, the MIDI standard is what's called an "unreliable transport".  This means that the protocol does not guarantee that the message gets from the transmitter to the receiver.  For this reason there is no communication from the VST host to NWC so I cannot see how the VST host could possibly cause NWC to lockup.
Can you describe when the lockup occurs?  Do you have time to get into |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab) to change the output device?
It may be there is a problem with Loopbe (you indicated you used this instead of MIDIYoke which is described in the explanation)
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 09:14 am
From Google translate:
I'll explain.
These are the indications that allowed me to listen to the sounds of Sonatina for the first time yesterday.
Today, however, I do not know why but it no longer works like it did yesterday. NWC jams.

Umm, OK.  I have no idea why NWC should stop working.
Although, if I recall correctly, you need to make sure the VST host is loaded before you start NWC.  If it isn't, NWC shouldn't crash, but just not make any sounds.
To be clear, the MIDI standard is what's called an "unreliable transport".  This means that the protocol does not guarantee that the message gets from the transmitter to the receiver.  For this reason there is no communication from the VST host to NWC so I cannot see how the VST host could possibly cause NWC to lockup.
Can you describe when the lockup occurs?  Do you have time to get into |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab) to change the output device?
It may be there is a problem with Loopbe (you indicated you used this instead of MIDIYoke which is described in the explanation)


Summing up.
The day before yesterday I downloaded
1) Midiox
2) VSTHOST
3) Syntfont (Which I still don't understand what it is for)
Once installed
I opened Midiox
I turned on VSTHOST
On VSTHOST I loaded Sonatina.dll as a plugin
I have set the midi input both in Midi Mapper
Et voilà (Cit) I heard the sounds. Although not consistent, as they alternate pizzicato held etc.

yesterday I did the same sequence again but I didn't get the result

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 09:40 am
Summing up.
The day before yesterday I downloaded
1) Midiox
2) VSTHOST
3) Syntfont (Which I still don't understand what it is for)
Once installed
I opened Midiox
I turned on VSTHOST
On VSTHOST I loaded Sonatina.dll as a plugin
I have set the midi input both in Midi Mapper
Et voilà (Cit) I heard the sounds. Although not consistent, as they alternate pizzicato held etc.

yesterday I did the same sequence again but I didn't get the result

Ok, let's see.

MIDIox itself isn't actually needed.  It is a monitoring tool.  HOWEVER, you do need a virtual MIDI cable ,either Loopbe OR MIDIYoke (which comes with MIDIox if I recall correctly).  Once installed you don't need to run it again as it becomes a driver that is always available.

VSTHost is an environment that VSTi's run in.  To explain, VST consists of 2 parts:
The VST Host (that VSTHost fulfils - don't be confused by the name coincidence)
VSTi's (Virtual Studio Instruments) - these can be all kinds of things, including a synthesizer.

SYNTHFont is a VSTi that is used as a synthesizer that plays the samples in a soundfont.  You don't need it for Sonatina so it can be left out.

Sonatina.dll is another VSTi.  This is the one that gives you the Sonatina sounds.

I would open VSTHost and make sure Sonatina.dll is still being loaded and that it is connected to the virtual MIDI cable that you want.  Then make sure the VSTHost config gets saved - I mention this in the guide.

Load NWC and make sure it is using the same virtual MIDI cable you configured in VSTHost

Once it is working again make sure you save the VSTHost config.
From now on you should only need to load VSTHost and then run NWC and it should all just work.

I hope this helps.

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 12:11 pm
Ok, let's see.

MIDIox itself isn't actually needed.  It is a monitoring tool.  HOWEVER, you do need a virtual MIDI cable ,either Loopbe OR MIDIYoke (which comes with MIDIox if I recall correctly).  Once installed you don't need to run it again as it becomes a driver that is always available.

VSTHost is an environment that VSTi's run in.  To explain, VST consists of 2 parts:
The VST Host (that VSTHost fulfils - don't be confused by the name coincidence)
VSTi's (Virtual Studio Instruments) - these can be all kinds of things, including a synthesizer.

SYNTHFont is a VSTi that is used as a synthesizer that plays the samples in a soundfont.  You don't need it for Sonatina so it can be left out.

Sonatina.dll is another VSTi.  This is the one that gives you the Sonatina sounds.

I would open VSTHost and make sure Sonatina.dll is still being loaded and that it is connected to the virtual MIDI cable that you want.  Then make sure the VSTHost config gets saved - I mention this in the guide.

Load NWC and make sure it is using the same virtual MIDI cable you configured in VSTHost

Once it is working again make sure you save the VSTHost config.
From now on you should only need to load VSTHost and then run NWC and it should all just work.

I hope this helps.


I really thank you.
I just restarted the PC and will do the live operations

1) I opened Vsthost and a gray screen appeared with two windows "engine input" on the left and "engine output" on the right
2) On the "File" window I click on "New plugnin" and select "Sonatina orchestra.dll. Now a window connected to a yellow wire with" engine output "has appeared
3) I check back on "Device Midi setting" and I notice that both midiyoke and loopbe internal midi pop up. Could that be going into conflict? Anyway Midiyoke selection 1
4) I open NWC, remove the Virtual midisint and add midiyoke1 from the device used by the playback.
and nothing. Stuck and then Crash

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 12:12 pm
I really thank you.
I just restarted the PC and will do the live operations

1) I opened Vsthost and a gray screen appeared with two windows "engine input" on the left and "engine output" on the right
2) On the "File" window I click on "New plugnin" and select "Sonatina orchestra.dll. Now a window connected to a yellow wire with" engine output "has appeared
3) I check back on "Device Midi setting" and I notice that both midiyoke and loopbe internal midi pop up. Could that be going into conflict? Anyway Midiyoke selection 1
4) I open NWC, remove the Virtual midisint and add midiyoke1 from the device used by the playback.
and nothing. Stuck and then Crash



I wanted to add that while I am writing I hear some notes held as if NWC was playing the midi file I submitted in slow motion
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 12:47 pm
I suspect it might be a good idea to remove either MIDIYoke or Loopbe.  I don't see any benefit to having 2 devices that do the same thing and which may conflict.  Loopbe seems to have a better reputation than MIDIYoke so perhaps keep it and remove MIDIYoke?

Within VSTHost it might be a good idea to make sure there are no conflicts or double ups (say a connection to both Loopbe AND MIDIYoke).  Also make sure the output of VSTHost isn't somehow connected back to the input.

Actually, as a last resort it might be worth removing Loopbe, MIDIYoke AND VSTHost, clean booting and reinstalling just Loopbe and VSTHost.  During the uninstall, if there is an option to keep configs I would say NO as there may be a problem in the config that's causing the issue.

No need to uninstall Sonatina as it's just a .dll that you load into VSTHost.

Another thought, have you tried Sonatina's supplied player?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 02:16 pm
I suspect it might be a good idea to remove either MIDIYoke or Loopbe.  I don't see any benefit to having 2 devices that do the same thing and which may conflict.  Loopbe seems to have a better reputation than MIDIYoke so perhaps keep it and remove MIDIYoke?

Within VSTHost it might be a good idea to make sure there are no conflicts or double ups (say a connection to both Loopbe AND MIDIYoke).  Also make sure the output of VSTHost isn't somehow connected back to the input.

Actually, as a last resort it might be worth removing Loopbe, MIDIYoke AND VSTHost, clean booting and reinstalling just Loopbe and VSTHost.  During the uninstall, if there is an option to keep configs I would say NO as there may be a problem in the config that's causing the issue.

No need to uninstall Sonatina as it's just a .dll that you load into VSTHost.

Another thought, have you tried Sonatina's supplied player?

No. Non conosco questo player sonatina. Si scarica a parte? O si scarica insieme al pacchetto?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 02:41 pm
No. Non conosco questo player sonatina. Si scarica a parte? O si scarica insieme al pacchetto?
From Google Translate:
"No. I don't know this sonatina player. Does it download separately? Or does it download together with the package?"
====
All I know about it is what I've read.  I haven't downloaded it and thus have not tried it either.

On the page where I found info on the SSO ( https://vstbuzz.com/freebies/sonatina-symphonic-orchestra/ ) is the following text:
Quote
Note: This library comes with it’s own sample player, no other software is required.
From this I assumed there was an included player in the download.

Ahh, I've just realised that the Sonatina.dll is the player, and you still need a host like VSTHost. 
I'm sorry for the confusion.  It's 13 years since I wrote that guide and I haven't played with VST for probably 11 of those years as the advent of a soundfont capable softsynth (I think it was Coolsoft) made it unnecessary for me.  My primary needs for NWC are notation, not playback.  I just need a sufficiently good playback to make sure what I'm writing will work.  I certainly don't need the power of full blown VST.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 04:33 pm
From Google Translate:
"No. I don't know this sonatina player. Does it download separately? Or does it download together with the package?"
====
All I know about it is what I've read.  I haven't downloaded it and thus have not tried it either.

On the page where I found info on the SSO ( https://vstbuzz.com/freebies/sonatina-symphonic-orchestra/ ) is the following text:From this I assumed there was an included player in the download.

Ahh, I've just realised that the Sonatina.dll is the player, and you still need a host like VSTHost. 
I'm sorry for the confusion.  It's 13 years since I wrote that guide and I haven't played with VST for probably 11 of those years as the advent of a soundfont capable softsynth (I think it was Coolsoft) made it unnecessary for me.  My primary needs for NWC are notation, not playback.  I just need a sufficiently good playback to make sure what I'm writing will work.  I certainly don't need the power of full blown VST.
I got it.
Also I am satisfied with the SF2 sounds especially the ones I fortunately bought on ebay.
I just wanted to go ahead and see if there was room for improvement.
Do you think VSTs are really much more effective than SF2s?
I can think that thanks to the pan functions etc that are in the multipoint controller function, I get the same quality?
Is it really necessary to switch to VST sounds?
I am obviously speaking out of ignorance.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 08:38 pm
<snip>
Do you think VSTs are really much more effective than SF2s?
For what VST is designed for, yes.  But VST is more about music production, not simply playback of a MIDI data stream.  E.G. I would never consider using a playback of a simple soundfont as a professional recording, but VST is used all the time for professional recording and mastering.  That's the primary purpose of the technology.
For more information, this Wikipedia article is well worth reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Quote
I can think that thanks to the pan functions etc that are in the multipoint controller function, I get the same quality?
VST is much, much more than this.  Think all kinds of special effects, filters etc. and considerable control over these things.

Quote
Is it really necessary to switch to VST sounds?
I am obviously speaking out of ignorance.
No.  If a simple synth and soundfont does what you need then there is no point in adding the complexity of VST.  For the record I believe that a soundfont and synth is far more appropriate than VST for probably every NWC user there is.  Of course, I stand to be corrected on this ;)

<edit> When I wrote the "VST for dummies like me" guide Windows Vista had just hit the streets and there were no drivers for my Creative Soundblaster Audigy II card.  (For a while there weren't even any Creative internal cards and as far as I can tell even today the internal cards that are now available do not support soundfonts.)  This meant I couldn't use soundfonts, and the Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth that was my preferred synth wouldn't work either as it wasn't compatible with Vista and there was no hope of it ever being as Yamaha had abandoned it years before.
So I needed a solution and the only thing that was available was VST.  At least this is what I thought, I later discovered soundfont compatible softsynths.  However, there was no easy entry point into VST so after much, much research and messing about I fumbled my way into the solution presented in the guide.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-21 09:02 pm
For what VST is designed for, yes.  But VST is more about music production, not simply playback of a MIDI data stream.  E.G. I would never consider using a playback of a simple soundfont as a professional recording, but VST is used all the time for professional recording and mastering.  That's the primary purpose of the technology.
For more information, this Wikipedia article is well worth reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology
VST is much, much more than this.  Think all kinds of special effects, filters etc. and considerable control over these things.
No.  If a simple synth and soundfont does what you need then there is no point in adding the complexity of VST.  For the record I believe that a soundfont and synth is far more appropriate than VST for probably every NWC user there is.  Of course, I stand to be corrected on this ;)
Quindi mi pare di capire che con sf2 non si possono ottenere risultati professionali... Sigh
Quindi in un percorso di crescita il vst mi sa che è una tappa obbligata.
Se avessi la sicurezza che con nwc potesse girare tranquillamente i vst, acquisterei sicuramente uno.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-21 09:53 pm
Quindi mi pare di capire che con sf2 non si possono ottenere risultati professionali... Sigh
Quindi in un percorso di crescita il vst mi sa che è una tappa obbligata.
Se avessi la sicurezza che con nwc potesse girare tranquillamente i vst, acquisterei sicuramente uno.
From Google Translate:
So I understand that with sf2 you can not get professional results ... Sigh
So in a path of growth I know that the vst is a must.
If I had the certainty that with nwc it could easily run the vst, I would definitely buy one.
======
Umm, what growth path do you have in mind?  How professional do you want?
Remember, NWC's primary purpose is creating music notation.  The fact that it's a pretty good sequencer is almost serendipitous. 
I think it would be helpful if you have a very clear picture of what you want to achieve.

The quality of sound you get from a soundfont is directly related to the quality of the soundfont, BUT for recording and production purposes you need more than just a soundfont.
If your aim is to get into music recording and production then you need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), not a notation package.
That said, a notation package is a great starting point, it's just not enough by itself.

As mentioned above, I think the real question is what do you want to achieve? 
OK, Do you just want a nice sounding playback of music you've written?  Then a synth and soundfont should be fine.  The downside is finding a soundfont you like.  I call this the "Soundfont Shuffle"  ;)
(Actually, the reason I created this thread was for people to share their preferred soundfonts and the reasons for their preference.)

OR,
do you want to create recordings for distribution or public performance?  You need a DAW, lots of time, dedication and experience, and probably some expensive addons.

N.B. I would definitely NOT be spending money on VST stuff, or soundfonts for that matter, just yet.  The first thing to do is explore the free offerings that are available to see their functionality and to determine if this is the direction you want/need to go.

By the way, NWC does NOT run the VST, the same as it does not run any synthesizer.  NWC does not create sounds, it outputs a MIDI data stream that is directed to a MIDI output.  Where the MIDI stream goes after that is irrelevant to NWC, it literally doesn't care, it just pumps data out the configured port. 
If the MIDI data eventually reaches a synthesizer then the synth will create sound as described by the MIDI data.
If the MIDI data is directed to a VST host then the VST host is responsible for what happens after it receives the data.  NWC is no longer involved.  Just the same as if the data was sent to a synthesizer.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-22 07:19 am
From Google Translate:
So I understand that with sf2 you can not get professional results ... Sigh
So in a path of growth I know that the vst is a must.
If I had the certainty that with nwc it could easily run the vst, I would definitely buy one.
======
Umm, what growth path do you have in mind?  How professional do you want?
Remember, NWC's primary purpose is creating music notation.  The fact that it's a pretty good sequencer is almost serendipitous. 
I think it would be helpful if you have a very clear picture of what you want to achieve.

The quality of sound you get from a soundfont is directly related to the quality of the soundfont, BUT for recording and production purposes you need more than just a soundfont.
If your aim is to get into music recording and production then you need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), not a notation package.
That said, a notation package is a great starting point, it's just not enough by itself.

As mentioned above, I think the real question is what do you want to achieve? 
OK, Do you just want a nice sounding playback of music you've written?  Then a synth and soundfont should be fine.  The downside is finding a soundfont you like.  I call this the "Soundfont Shuffle"  ;)
(Actually, the reason I created this thread was for people to share their preferred soundfonts and the reasons for their preference.)

OR,
do you want to create recordings for distribution or public performance?  You need a DAW, lots of time, dedication and experience, and probably some expensive addons.

N.B. I would definitely NOT be spending money on VST stuff, or soundfonts for that matter, just yet.  The first thing to do is explore the free offerings that are available to see their functionality and to determine if this is the direction you want/need to go.

By the way, NWC does NOT run the VST, the same as it does not run any synthesizer.  NWC does not create sounds, it outputs a MIDI data stream that is directed to a MIDI output.  Where the MIDI stream goes after that is irrelevant to NWC, it literally doesn't care, it just pumps data out the configured port. 
If the MIDI data eventually reaches a synthesizer then the synth will create sound as described by the MIDI data.
If the MIDI data is directed to a VST host then the VST host is responsible for what happens after it receives the data.  NWC is no longer involved.  Just the same as if the data was sent to a synthesizer.
Voglio chiarire il fatto che io uso nwc dal 2005.
In quel momento avevo la versione demo. Poi ho comprato la versione 2,75 e ho detto "finalmente". Poi ho scoperto cool soft, ed ero sempre più felice. Ora non sarebbe male se uscisse un aggiornamento di suoni vst già pronti e subito compatibili. Pagherei senza problemi per acquisire quella marcia in più.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-22 08:35 am
Voglio chiarire il fatto che io uso nwc dal 2005.
In quel momento avevo la versione demo. Poi ho comprato la versione 2,75 e ho detto "finalmente". Poi ho scoperto cool soft, ed ero sempre più felice. Ora non sarebbe male se uscisse un aggiornamento di suoni vst già pronti e subito compatibili. Pagherei senza problemi per acquisire quella marcia in più.
From Google Translate:
I want to clarify the fact that I have been using nwc since 2005.
At that time I had the demo version. Then I bought the 2.75 version and said "finally". Then I discovered cool soft, and I was happier and happier. Now it wouldn't be bad if an update of ready-made and immediately compatible vst sounds came out. I would pay without problems to acquire that extra gear.
====
Sure, native support for VST might be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Not even the big name notation products use native VST.  Instead they use additional products like Garritan to provide a VST environment.  True, for some of them there is a fairly tight integration, but they are still separate products.

What is it you are actually trying to achieve?  I really think you need to define this before you jump down the VST rabbit hole.

If you just want reasonable quality playback of your NWC scores then stick with soundfonts.  It's easy and usually trouble free.
If you want serious processing of the audio you create then get a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that uses VST (pretty much all of them).  In this context, NWC is nothing more than a starting point for getting your ideas into MIDI so that the DAW can render them and allow manipulation of the resultant audio.

For what it's worth I'm not sure VST is what you think it is. 
Do you realise that you don't need a notation product to use VST?  You can record an audio stream directly into a VST system from a microphone, or a guitar, or any other electronic source.   Or you can load an mp3, or Ogg Vorbis, or wav file (amongst others) and go from there.  You don't actually need MIDI or NWC, or any other notation product.
VST is a Virtual recording Studio Technology that happens to be able to take a MIDI data stream and synthesize sounds from the instructions if you have the right plug-in (VSTi).  It's the plugins, VSTi's and VSTfx's that do the work.

Did you check the Wikipedia link I posted earlier?  It is definitely worth reading.
Here it is again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-22 11:30 am
From Google Translate:
I want to clarify the fact that I have been using nwc since 2005.
At that time I had the demo version. Then I bought the 2.75 version and said "finally". Then I discovered cool soft, and I was happier and happier. Now it wouldn't be bad if an update of ready-made and immediately compatible vst sounds came out. I would pay without problems to acquire that extra gear.
====
Sure, native support for VST might be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Not even the big name notation products use native VST.  Instead they use additional products like Garritan to provide a VST environment.  True, for some of them there is a fairly tight integration, but they are still separate products.

What is it you are actually trying to achieve?  I really think you need to define this before you jump down the VST rabbit hole.

If you just want reasonable quality playback of your NWC scores then stick with soundfonts.  It's easy and usually trouble free.
If you want serious processing of the audio you create then get a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that uses VST (pretty much all of them).  In this context, NWC is nothing more than a starting point for getting your ideas into MIDI so that the DAW can render them and allow manipulation of the resultant audio.

For what it's worth I'm not sure VST is what you think it is. 
Do you realise that you don't need a notation product to use VST?  You can record an audio stream directly into a VST system from a microphone, or a guitar, or any other electronic source.   Or you can load an mp3, or Ogg Vorbis, or wav file (amongst others) and go from there.  You don't actually need MIDI or NWC, or any other notation product.
VST is a Virtual recording Studio Technology that happens to be able to take a MIDI data stream and synthesize sounds from the instructions if you have the right plug-in (VSTi).  It's the plugins, VSTi's and VSTfx's that do the work.

Did you check the Wikipedia link I posted earlier?  It is definitely worth reading.
Here it is again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology


You're right. I had made the premise that I was speaking out of ignorance,
I'm seeing tutorials and understanding your speech more and more.
The practical examples are certainly more direct.
I understand that the Vst is packed with knobs that handle the digital sound.
You're right . the VST is used in case you have to make a soundtrack where it is important to dose the sound effects or make a soundtrack even more effective.
At that point it would take a lot more material to buy, and I must say that it is not yet time;)
Once again I feel like saying that NWC is still my favorite show.
Thanks again
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-22 12:06 pm
Hi Raffaele,
I'm glad we had this conversation.  I realise that it may have seemed lengthy and like it was going around in circles sometimes, but I also think that there are others reading it that now have a much better idea of what VST is and isn't about.

Had we not corresponded then they would still be in the dark.

Be well and enjoy :)
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-22 04:57 pm
Hi Raffaele,
I'm glad we had this conversation.  I realise that it may have seemed lengthy and like it was going around in circles sometimes, but I also think that there are others reading it that now have a much better idea of what VST is and isn't about.

Had we not corresponded then they would still be in the dark.

Be well and enjoy :)

I'm at a turning point.
I downloaded a piano .dll and uploaded it to the VSThost plugin
In practice now the NWC plays the sounds of the VST but evidently struggles and plays them in slow motion.
So the virtual cable works.
Maybe my RAM doesn't have the strength to make it all work. or it's a latency problem. I will try to download Asio4all
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-23 12:45 am
<snip>
In practice now the NWC plays the sounds of the VST but evidently struggles and plays them in slow motion.
So the virtual cable works.
Maybe my RAM doesn't have the strength to make it all work. or it's a latency problem. I will try to download Asio4all
This isn't what I'd call a latency problem, which is more of a delay rather than slow motion.

I think it is probably related to the VST host, but could you tell me if the note chase in NWC has slowed down, or does the note chase happen at normal speed and only the sound is slow?

Please check this before installing ASIO4all if it's not too late.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-23 08:31 am
This isn't what I'd call a latency problem, which is more of a delay rather than slow motion.


I think it is probably related to the VST host, but could you tell me if the note chase in NWC has slowed down, or does the note chase happen at normal speed and only the sound is slow?

Please check this before installing ASIO4all if it's not too late.
È tutto molto lento.
Anche se ho un metronomo di 120 la musica va a 20 bpm
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-23 09:31 am
È tutto molto lento.
Anche se ho un metronomo di 120 la musica va a 20 bpm
From Google Translate:
Everything is very slow.
Even though I have a metronome of 120 the music goes at 20 bpm
More ... LikeQuote
====

I assume this means the note chase is also slow.  I have no idea how this can be so.
I could understand if the note chase was normal speed and the sound was slow, but not both because as far as I know there is no 2-way communication from the synth back to NWC.

Does anyone else have a clue?  Am I missing something obvious?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-23 02:56 pm
From Google Translate:
Everything is very slow.
Even though I have a metronome of 120 the music goes at 20 bpm
More ... LikeQuote
====

I assume this means the note chase is also slow.  I have no idea how this can be so.
I could understand if the note chase was normal speed and the sound was slow, but not both because as far as I know there is no 2-way communication from the synth back to NWC.

Does anyone else have a clue?  Am I missing something obvious?

Secondo me il mio pc non è abbastanza potente.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Bart on 2022-01-23 04:06 pm
Well, when you don't have enough resources (RAM/CPU), then this is most probably the reason an "under-performing" system, because sound synthesis requires quite some resources.

You can verify your resources yourself by opening the task manager (when you right click in the taskbar, you can find the task manager link). If CPU or Memory or even disk pass 90%, then your PC cannot follow the software.
If you are lucky you can stop other resource consuming programs (like mail/browser/video software/...) and get a reasonable sound.
If that is not sufficient, you could opt for a "smaller" soundfont (if working with soundfonts) or less effects (if using VST based music).

I have tested different soundfonts in combination with virtual midi synth like
(*) Yamaha-C5-Salamander-JNv5.1.sf2 (591 MB),
(*) TOH-GM_GS_XG_SFX.sf2 (370 MB)
(*) titanic.sf2 (280 MB)
(*) SGM-V2.01.sf2 (235 MB),
(*) FluidR3_GM.sf2 (144 MB)
(*) WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB)
(*) sinfon36.sf2 (44 MB)
(*) merlin_gm36.sf2 (32 MB)
(*) Choir.sf3 (32 MB)
(*) GeneralUser_GS_SoftSynth_v144.sf2 (30 MB)
(*) merlin_plus23.sf2 (16 MB)
(*) Jeux14.sf2 (4 MB) - but this overwrites the first channels with only Organ sound

Finally I have chosen to install the relative small, older soundfonts WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB) and WST25FSTein.SF2 (21 MB) and I am very happy with it.

A long time ago I also tried to route the midi output to the virtual patch cables (MidiOx) and into a VST (synthfont), to get a long reverb for a church organ, but I did that only for one piece. 

What I recently did, was
(*) exporting an NWC file as midi
(*) recording my own voice with audacity
(*) importing both in LMMS (a free DAW) and adding soundfonts/VST's/effects/automations to the differents tracks
(*) export the final result in an MP3 file.
Maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but until I find something better, this is how I will work, I think.

Bart
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-23 05:34 pm
Well, when you don't have enough resources (RAM/CPU), then this is most probably the reason an "under-performing" system, because sound synthesis requires quite some resources.

You can verify your resources yourself by opening the task manager (when you right click in the taskbar, you can find the task manager link). If CPU or Memory or even disk pass 90%, then your PC cannot follow the software.
If you are lucky you can stop other resource consuming programs (like mail/browser/video software/...) and get a reasonable sound.
If that is not sufficient, you could opt for a "smaller" soundfont (if working with soundfonts) or less effects (if using VST based music).

I have tested different soundfonts in combination with virtual midi synth like
(*) Yamaha-C5-Salamander-JNv5.1.sf2 (591 MB),
(*) TOH-GM_GS_XG_SFX.sf2 (370 MB)
(*) titanic.sf2 (280 MB)
(*) SGM-V2.01.sf2 (235 MB),
(*) FluidR3_GM.sf2 (144 MB)
(*) WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB)
(*) sinfon36.sf2 (44 MB)
(*) merlin_gm36.sf2 (32 MB)
(*) Choir.sf3 (32 MB)
(*) GeneralUser_GS_SoftSynth_v144.sf2 (30 MB)
(*) merlin_plus23.sf2 (16 MB)
(*) Jeux14.sf2 (4 MB) - but this overwrites the first channels with only Organ sound

Finally I have chosen to install the relative small, older soundfonts WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB) and WST25FSTein.SF2 (21 MB) and I am very happy with it.

A long time ago I also tried to route the midi output to the virtual patch cables (MidiOx) and into a VST (synthfont), to get a long reverb for a church organ, but I did that only for one piece. 

What I recently did, was
(*) exporting an NWC file as midi
(*) recording my own voice with audacity
(*) importing both in LMMS (a free DAW) and adding soundfonts/VST's/effects/automations to the differents tracks
(*) export the final result in an MP3 file.
Maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but until I find something better, this is how I will work, I think.

Bart

I soundfont che finora ho scaricato me li supporta. Forse con i vst non riesce. Controllerò quello che mi hai detto. Io il reverbero lo metto dopo. Converto prima il midi in wav o mp3 e poi lo apro con cooledit.
La stereofonia la ottengo con multipoint controller e devo dire che è indispensabile.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-23 05:45 pm
Quote
La stereofonia la ottengo con multipoint controller e devo dire che è indispensabile.
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: melismata on 2022-01-23 06:06 pm
I use NWC with VirtualMIDISynth  to drive Sinfonia_36.sf2 soundfont.

If I need to produce and MP3, then I export to MIDI and use Synthfont2 to render MIDI to MP£.  I use the same soundfont with  Synthfont2.  This software can use VST plugins but I never bothered to explore in that direction as my needs are satisfied just using the sf2.

Results are quite passable for, say, adding background music to a holiday snaps video.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-23 07:11 pm
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...
Domani proverò
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-24 08:19 am
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...
I tried to handle these values (127-0) But practically nothing happens. The sounds remain central.
With the Multipoint controller, on the other hand, I had a good spatial arrangement
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-24 09:08 am
I tried to handle these values (127-0) But practically nothing happens. The sounds remain central.
With the Multipoint controller, on the other hand, I had a good spatial arrangement
The only way I can think of that this might happen is if there is another staff, below the one you set, that is on the same channel and has the pan settings at 64.

E.G. Staff1 is Trumpet 1 is on, say, channel 3 with pan at 25, BUT Staff2 is Trumpet 2 and is also on channel 3 but with pan at 64.  Because both staves are on the same channel the last staff processed defines all the staff settings for both staves, including pan settings.

Two files attached each with 2 staves:
PanDemo1.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on different MIDI channels (1 and 2), left, then right, then left again etc. and plays back that way.
PanDemo2.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on the SAME MIDI channel (1), staff 1 is set left and staff 2 is set right but on playback everything from both staves is to the right
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-25 07:25 pm
The only way I can think of that this might happen is if there is another staff, below the one you set, that is on the same channel and has the pan settings at 64.

E.G. Staff1 is Trumpet 1 is on, say, channel 3 with pan at 25, BUT Staff2 is Trumpet 2 and is also on channel 3 but with pan at 64.  Because both staves are on the same channel the last staff processed defines all the staff settings for both staves, including pan settings.

Two files attached each with 2 staves:
PanDemo1.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on different MIDI channels (1 and 2), left, then right, then left again etc. and plays back that way.
PanDemo2.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on the SAME MIDI channel (1), staff 1 is set left and staff 2 is set right but on playback everything from both staves is to the right

Si ok funziona! grazie.
Ho notato che il massimo di canali sono 16.
Ma è impossibile non mettere 2 strumenti in un canale.. . In una strumentazione di orchestra e Banda sarebbe praticamente impossibile.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-25 08:01 pm
Intanto i canali "normali" sono 15. Il canale 10 è riservato alle percussioni.
Poi puoi usare più sintetizzatori ("device"), ognuno con i suoi 15+1 canali. La vecchia soundblaster live aveva 2 synth HW!

Va bene che in una banda ci sono molti strumenti, ma le trombe possono usare più pentagrammi ma condividere lo stesso canale MIDI.
Idem per i flauti, e i clarinetti ecc...

E poi guarda che non sei tenuto a usare un canale per un solo (tipo di) strumento.
Se in quel momento uno strumento non deve suonare, il canale è utilizzabile per un altro, salvo poi rifare il cambio.
Per anni ho usato una Gem che aveva solo 5 patch (leggi: canali) contemporanee.
Non sarà sempre un pieno orchestrale, no?

Guardati qualche esempio nello scriptorium.
Cosa ne dici dei "Quadri" orchestrati da Ravel?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-25 09:08 pm
Intanto i canali "normali" sono 15. Il canale 10 è riservato alle percussioni.
Poi puoi usare più sintetizzatori ("device"), ognuno con i suoi 15+1 canali. La vecchia soundblaster live aveva 2 synth HW!

Va bene che in una banda ci sono molti strumenti, ma le trombe possono usare più pentagrammi ma condividere lo stesso canale MIDI.
Idem per i flauti, e i clarinetti ecc...

E poi guarda che non sei tenuto a usare un canale per un solo (tipo di) strumento.
Se in quel momento uno strumento non deve suonare, il canale è utilizzabile per un altro, salvo poi rifare il cambio.
Per anni ho usato una Gem che aveva solo 5 patch (leggi: canali) contemporanee.
Non sarà sempre un pieno orchestrale, no?

Guardati qualche esempio nello scriptorium.
Cosa ne dici dei "Quadri" orchestrati da Ravel?

I quadri di ravel? Se mi dai il link lo ascolto con piacere
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-25 09:46 pm
Basta cercare nello Scriptorium (https://nwc-scriptorium.org/classr.html): Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. Non posso passarti il link diretto perché Rich, onde evitare casini, ha fatto in modo che non fossero possibili.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-25 11:24 pm
Si ok funziona! grazie.
Ho notato che il massimo di canali sono 16.
Ma è impossibile non mettere 2 strumenti in un canale.. . In una strumentazione di orchestra e Banda sarebbe praticamente impossibile.
From Google translate:
Yes ok it works! thank you.
I noticed that the maximum of channels are 16.
But it is impossible not to put 2 instruments in one channel ... In an orchestra and band instrumentation it would be practically impossible.
====
True, but on the other hand, if you are trying to emulate an orchestra then all the trumpets will be close together, and all the violins will be close together etc. and if each group are sharing a channel then there is no real benefit of trying to pan each trumpet, or each violin etc. to separate them.  In the real world you would not be able to tell which trumpet is playing from it's position.

Thus, panning the channel that all the trumpets are on so they sound like they are coming from the trumpet location in the orchestra is sufficient.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-26 12:33 am
I quadri di ravel? Se mi dai il link lo ascolto con piacere
From Google translate:
Ravel's paintings? If you give me the link, I listen to it with pleasure

Basta cercare nello Scriptorium (https://nwc-scriptorium.org/classr.html): Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. Non posso passarti il link diretto perché Rich, onde evitare casini, ha fatto in modo che non fossero possibili.
From Google translate:
Just look in the Scriptorium: Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. I can't give you the direct link because Rich made sure they were not possible in order to avoid trouble.
====

True.  However the Scriptorium is an excellent resource and the general link will work:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/

Raffaele: In Flurmy's reply you may have noticed that the word "Scriptorium" is faintly underlined.  This indicates it is a link and in this case will take you to the part of the scriptorium where Ravel's works are listed.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-26 12:55 am
Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-26 07:50 am
Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Trovato.
Molto interessante questa banca dati.
Co sono alcuni suoni che forse andrebbero rivisti. Ad esempio string ensamble 2 al posto dei s. e. 1. Verrebbero più legati e meno aggressivi. Gli S. E. 2 sono più utili nelle frasi veloci. Mentre i S. E. 2 buoni per i tappeti lenti
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2022-01-26 08:08 am

Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?
....

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?



It is a midi stream sent to a PATS system  ( https://freepats.zenvoid.org/ )




Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-26 11:10 am
It is a midi stream sent to a PATS system  ( https://freepats.zenvoid.org/ )

Followed the link, how does it work?  I couldn't see how one could sent a data stream to it.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2022-01-26 04:09 pm
Nooooo ! Those are the soundfonts used. 

I was answering your question :

Quote
may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-26 08:18 pm
Molto interessante questa banca dati.
Oh, yes, and we have to thank Rich for that.
I'm surprised it looks new to you: Lawrie already directed you there many times in this very thread!
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-26 08:45 pm
Nooooo ! Those are the soundfonts used. 

I was answering your question :

Oops, sorry.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-26 08:46 pm
Oh, yes, and we have to thank Rich for that.
I'm surprised it looks new to you: Lawrie already directed you there many times in this very thread!
Sto imparando una cosa alla volta.
In questo forum sono molte le cose che per me sono una lingua sconosciuta.
Però sono sulla buona strada.
Oggi ho scaricato una Daw e ho ascoltato molti dei lavori di scriptorium. Ho fatto progressi importanti e vi ringrazio per i post interessanti
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-27 10:40 pm
Back at the start of this thread I said:
LIKE:
Merlin_GMpro(v3.15)                                      I really like the trombone sound and none of the other sounds I've used irritate me enough to look further at the moment.

Well, I've found something I don't like  :(
Sometimes during playback the timing gets a little, umm, wonky.  Interestingly it seems to be note combination specific.  E.G I have a piece I'm noodling with and the trumpet is playing quavers...  Arrgh, check the attachment.  The highlighted note is the problem child.  If I change it from the Bb (Tpt part is still in concert pitch and the key sig is Bb) the problem goes away, otherwise it plays delayed and sounds like a machinegun.
At first I thought it might be the synth but then I remembered problems others have had that turned out to be the soundfont so I tried some others. 
Aside from the generally disappointing brass sounds (familiar complaint? ;) ) playback was fine.  So it seems the soundfont is what's at fault.
I haven't tried a different synth to check if it's the combination of soundfont and synth or if it's purely the soundfont.

Anyhoo, one soundfont I tried was a different Merlin version:
Merlin_Audigy(v1.14)
and it's better, though I've still found a slight hint of the timing issues so I'm now on a serious hunt for a new favourite soundfont.
 Or maybe synth, still not sure if it's the combination of the two that makes the problem apparent...

<edit> Update:  I've now tested this soundfont with a different synth and the problem remains so Coolsoft appears to be exonerated.  "Soundfont Shuffle" time again, sigh :(


<'nother edit> New update:  Somehow it's the piano patch (0) glitching up the trumpet - if I mute the piano patch or change it to any other instrument (I actually only tried about 4) the problem goes away... This is the second time I've identified an accoustic grand  piano patch related problem in a soundfont.
 Last time it was Airfont340 (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=10126.msg72826#msg72826) GRRRR (Insert giant grumpy face here). 
What I don't understand is how it can screw up a completely different patch on a completely different channel and playing completely different notes. 
Definitely "Soundfont Shuffle" time again, sigh :(


Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Flurmy on 2022-01-28 07:28 pm
Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-01-29 10:00 pm
Sto imparando una cosa alla volta.
In questo forum sono molte le cose che per me sono una lingua sconosciuta.
Però sono sulla buona strada.
Oggi ho scaricato una Daw e ho ascoltato molti dei lavori di scriptorium. Ho fatto progressi importanti e vi ringrazio per i post interessanti

Sono arrivato finalmente a delle conclusioni, scaricando, installando e disinstallando software
1) per caricare buoni vst ci vuole un computer potente
2) se carico dei vst mediocri, il pc tutto sommato li carica ma i suoni sf2 sono comunque migliori.
3) esportando in midi, alcune Daw riescono a leggere i midi con vst, ma se già aggiungo tracce il Daw va in crash. Forse perché la ram non è abbastanza.
Vi ringrazio. Se ho fatto questi passi avanti è stato anche merito vostro.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-01-30 12:26 am
From Google Translate:
I finally came to conclusions by downloading, installing and uninstalling software
1) to load vst vouchers you need a powerful computer
2) if I load some mediocre vst, the pc loads them all in all but the sf2 sounds are still better.
3) exporting to midi, some Daw can read midi with vst, but if I already add tracks the Daw crashes. Perhaps because the ram is not enough.
Thank you. It was also thanks to you if I made these steps forward.
Hi Raffaele,
I wonder if you could tell us what your computer configuration is?
Brand and model if it's a "name" type machine (E.G. Dell, Lenovo, HP, ASUS etc.)
CPU model and speed
How much RAM (and speed if you know)
Disk space (and how much is free)

For our purposes that's probably all that's necessary.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-02-03 08:45 am
From Google Translate:Hi Raffaele,
I wonder if you could tell us what your computer configuration is?
Brand and model if it's a "name" type machine (E.G. Dell, Lenovo, HP, ASUS etc.)
CPU model and speed
How much RAM (and speed if you know)
Disk space (and how much is free)

For our purposes that's probably all that's necessary.  Thanks.
Scusa il ritardo.
Lenovo
AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics       2.00 GHz
Ram 8 Gb
x64 bit
Spazio libero HD 85 GB su 460

Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-02-03 10:40 am
From Google translate:
Sorry for the delay.
Lenovo
AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics 2.00 GHz
Ram 8 Gb
x64 bit
Free space HD 85 GB on 460
Thanks Raffaele.
From what I'm reading it's pretty low powered in comparison with many systems.  Also 8Gb of RAM isn't really a lot for a 64bit system.
I can't advise whether it's economically worthwhile upgrading the RAM but I would recommend a minimum of 16Gb for 64bit Windows.
For what it's worth, when I was still making a living in IT the MINIMUM free disk space you wanted to have on a Windows system disk was 20% of total capacity.  You're down to 18.5%.  Remember, this is only a rule of thumb so there's no need to really worry about it, 85Gb is actually a huge amount of space, but if it was my system I think I'd do a bit of a cleanup.  Deleting old temp files is a great place to start.  It isn't so much the amount of space the temp files use, but rather the number of them.  The more files in the temp structure the more file handles windows has the track and this can really slow performance*.

Win 10 comes with a disk cleanup app, run it and see what space it you can recover.  I would delete temporary files, and maybe temporary internet files (this might impact any tabs you use a lot), possibly empty the recycle bin unless you use it a lot. 
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I am not in front of your machine so any advice like this is a guess, not definitive, though it's normally quite safe to delete temp files.  It's always best to have a full backup first.

I seriously think that modern VST applications will be very unhappy in this environment.  Stick to a plain softsynth like Coolsoft for best performance.

* I remember a clients machine many, many years ago that used to take around 10 minutes to boot.  They would literally start the machine and go have morning tea while they waited for it to start.  I was looking into a problem on another machine in the same area and they mentioned how bad it was.  I had some time so I checked it out.  I forget the number of temp files it had, but I have a feeling it was almost 1,000,000.  I do remember it took a long time to delete them all.  Afterwards the machine would boot in around 1 minute.  Quite a difference wouldn't you say?  It also ran considerably faster.  This was probably around 2000 so maybe win95 or 98.  Recent versions of Windows handle temp files much much better, but a cleanup is always a good idea.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-02-03 03:15 pm
From Google translate:Thanks Raffaele.
From what I'm reading it's pretty low powered in comparison with many systems.  Also 8Gb of RAM isn't really a lot for a 64bit system.
I can't advise whether it's economically worthwhile upgrading the RAM but I would recommend a minimum of 16Gb for 64bit Windows.
For what it's worth, when I was still making a living in IT the MINIMUM free disk space you wanted to have on a Windows system disk was 20% of total capacity.  You're down to 18.5%.  Remember, this is only a rule of thumb so there's no need to really worry about it, 85Gb is actually a huge amount of space, but if it was my system I think I'd do a bit of a cleanup.  Deleting old temp files is a great place to start.  It isn't so much the amount of space the temp files use, but rather the number of them.  The more files in the temp structure the more file handles windows has the track and this can really slow performance*.

Win 10 comes with a disk cleanup app, run it and see what space it you can recover.  I would delete temporary files, and maybe temporary internet files (this might impact any tabs you use a lot), possibly empty the recycle bin unless you use it a lot. 
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I am not in front of your machine so any advice like this is a guess, not definitive, though it's normally quite safe to delete temp files.  It's always best to have a full backup first.

I seriously think that modern VST applications will be very unhappy in this environment.  Stick to a plain softsynth like Coolsoft for best performance.

* I remember a clients machine many, many years ago that used to take around 10 minutes to boot.  They would literally start the machine and go have morning tea while they waited for it to start.  I was looking into a problem on another machine in the same area and they mentioned how bad it was.  I had some time so I checked it out.  I forget the number of temp files it had, but I have a feeling it was almost 1,000,000.  I do remember it took a long time to delete them all.  Afterwards the machine would boot in around 1 minute.  Quite a difference wouldn't you say?  It also ran considerably faster.  This was probably around 2000 so maybe win95 or 98.  Recent versions of Windows handle temp files much much better, but a cleanup is always a good idea.

Ho già fatto tutto quello che era possibile. Ma purtroppo non riesce proprio.
Con coolsoft va una meraviglia.
La mia era una attività esplorativa per vedere se con questo pc potevo acquistare qualche pacchetto suoni VST Garritan ecc.
Penso che dovrò acquistare un nuovo pc
Grazie ancora
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-02-03 09:43 pm
From Google Translate:
I have already done everything that was possible. But unfortunately it just fails.
With coolsoft it goes great.
Mine was an exploratory activity to see if with this pc I could buy some VST Garritan sound packs etc.
I think I will have to buy a new pc
Thanks again

Happy to have been of some assistance.
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Raffaele Buscema on 2022-02-06 08:06 pm
From Google Translate:
Happy to have been of some assistance.

Ho un altra richiesta di aiuto.
Ultimamente ho acquistato dei sf2 dove vi stava scritto che c'erano 10 tipi di violini ecc.
Ma nella scelta dello strumento mi da sempre e solo un tipo di violino. Inoltre nella tree che ho scaricato , i suoni non corrispondono con la scelta. Solo la nvc tree corrisponde con il suono. Ma ne fa scegliere solo 2
Es. String ensemble 1 è string ensemble 2
Title: Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2022-02-06 11:13 pm
From Google translate:
I have another call for help.
Lately I bought some sf2 where it was written that there were 10 types of violins etc.
But in choosing the instrument he always gives me only one type of violin. Also in the tree that I have downloaded, the sounds do not correspond with the choice. Only the nvc tree matches with the sound. But it only lets you choose 2
Eg String ensemble 1 is string ensemble 2
Hi Raffaele,
the best suggestion I have is that not all sf2 files are General MIDI (GM).  That means that they do not conform with the GM arrangement of instruments.
E.G. in a zero based GM arrangement Patch 0, Bank 0 is an accoustic grand piano, but patch 40, bank 0 is a violin.
The GM arrangement of instruments is a well known standard, BUT it does not mean that every synth/soundfont MUST comply with that standard.
In the GM standard there is only 1 violin, full stop.  Anything that has more than 1 violin is no longer a GM synth.  It may be an extension of GM, or it may be completely different. 
You will need to check the documentation for the soundfonts you purchased to know the instrument bank and patch numbering.  Or you could do some trial an error, but the documentation will be easier.
Also note, some software uses 0 as a starting point for the patch numbering scheme, and some use 1 as the starting point.  Standard synth internal numbering is 0 based (0 to 127 [7 bits]).

If you open the default.nwcitree located in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\itrees" with notepad you will see an entry like this:

Quote
\General MIDI

\General MIDI\Piano=Bank(0,0)
Acoustic Grand Piano=0
Bright Acoustic Piano=1
Electric Grand Piano=2
Honky-tonk Piano=3
Rhodes Piano=4
Chorused Piano=5
Harpsichord=6

N.B. this is just a small portion of the whole file, but it shows that NWC uses a 0 based schema internally: the first instrument is "Acoustic Grand Piano=0".  The 0 is the patch number. 
Note also there is an entry "\General MIDI\Piano=Bank(0,0)" which shows the MSB and LSB of the bank selection (MSB=Most Significant Byte, LSB=Least Significant Byte - IIRC).  The first is the MSB.
This wikipedia article is a good guide to GM patches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

Once you have established the patch/bank schema for the soundfont(s) you can create your own itrees for use with NWC.  Use the default.nwcitree as a guide.

To use your new itree, go into the instrument selection dialogue (E.G. staff properties|Instrument|Change List...| and select your new itree from the ones available.  NWC will remember this until you change it to another list.

There is an introduction to itrees here:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5536.0

Plus general itree related stuff here:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?board=6.0

If you want to mix and match your violin soundfont with a GM soundfont for other instruments you will probably need to use multiple synths, unless there are bank selections that do not interfere with your GM set in which case you can load the violin soundfont after the GM soundfont in Coolsoft and the violin soundfont will be used for the violin sounds.  The extra violins are probably in different banks to 0,0 but your documentation will tell you this.