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Topic: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s) (Read 5045 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #50
Voglio chiarire il fatto che io uso nwc dal 2005.
In quel momento avevo la versione demo. Poi ho comprato la versione 2,75 e ho detto "finalmente". Poi ho scoperto cool soft, ed ero sempre più felice. Ora non sarebbe male se uscisse un aggiornamento di suoni vst già pronti e subito compatibili. Pagherei senza problemi per acquisire quella marcia in più.
From Google Translate:
I want to clarify the fact that I have been using nwc since 2005.
At that time I had the demo version. Then I bought the 2.75 version and said "finally". Then I discovered cool soft, and I was happier and happier. Now it wouldn't be bad if an update of ready-made and immediately compatible vst sounds came out. I would pay without problems to acquire that extra gear.
====
Sure, native support for VST might be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Not even the big name notation products use native VST.  Instead they use additional products like Garritan to provide a VST environment.  True, for some of them there is a fairly tight integration, but they are still separate products.

What is it you are actually trying to achieve?  I really think you need to define this before you jump down the VST rabbit hole.

If you just want reasonable quality playback of your NWC scores then stick with soundfonts.  It's easy and usually trouble free.
If you want serious processing of the audio you create then get a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that uses VST (pretty much all of them).  In this context, NWC is nothing more than a starting point for getting your ideas into MIDI so that the DAW can render them and allow manipulation of the resultant audio.

For what it's worth I'm not sure VST is what you think it is. 
Do you realise that you don't need a notation product to use VST?  You can record an audio stream directly into a VST system from a microphone, or a guitar, or any other electronic source.   Or you can load an mp3, or Ogg Vorbis, or wav file (amongst others) and go from there.  You don't actually need MIDI or NWC, or any other notation product.
VST is a Virtual recording Studio Technology that happens to be able to take a MIDI data stream and synthesize sounds from the instructions if you have the right plug-in (VSTi).  It's the plugins, VSTi's and VSTfx's that do the work.

Did you check the Wikipedia link I posted earlier?  It is definitely worth reading.
Here it is again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #51
From Google Translate:
I want to clarify the fact that I have been using nwc since 2005.
At that time I had the demo version. Then I bought the 2.75 version and said "finally". Then I discovered cool soft, and I was happier and happier. Now it wouldn't be bad if an update of ready-made and immediately compatible vst sounds came out. I would pay without problems to acquire that extra gear.
====
Sure, native support for VST might be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Not even the big name notation products use native VST.  Instead they use additional products like Garritan to provide a VST environment.  True, for some of them there is a fairly tight integration, but they are still separate products.

What is it you are actually trying to achieve?  I really think you need to define this before you jump down the VST rabbit hole.

If you just want reasonable quality playback of your NWC scores then stick with soundfonts.  It's easy and usually trouble free.
If you want serious processing of the audio you create then get a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that uses VST (pretty much all of them).  In this context, NWC is nothing more than a starting point for getting your ideas into MIDI so that the DAW can render them and allow manipulation of the resultant audio.

For what it's worth I'm not sure VST is what you think it is. 
Do you realise that you don't need a notation product to use VST?  You can record an audio stream directly into a VST system from a microphone, or a guitar, or any other electronic source.   Or you can load an mp3, or Ogg Vorbis, or wav file (amongst others) and go from there.  You don't actually need MIDI or NWC, or any other notation product.
VST is a Virtual recording Studio Technology that happens to be able to take a MIDI data stream and synthesize sounds from the instructions if you have the right plug-in (VSTi).  It's the plugins, VSTi's and VSTfx's that do the work.

Did you check the Wikipedia link I posted earlier?  It is definitely worth reading.
Here it is again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology


You're right. I had made the premise that I was speaking out of ignorance,
I'm seeing tutorials and understanding your speech more and more.
The practical examples are certainly more direct.
I understand that the Vst is packed with knobs that handle the digital sound.
You're right . the VST is used in case you have to make a soundtrack where it is important to dose the sound effects or make a soundtrack even more effective.
At that point it would take a lot more material to buy, and I must say that it is not yet time;)
Once again I feel like saying that NWC is still my favorite show.
Thanks again

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #52
Hi Raffaele,
I'm glad we had this conversation.  I realise that it may have seemed lengthy and like it was going around in circles sometimes, but I also think that there are others reading it that now have a much better idea of what VST is and isn't about.

Had we not corresponded then they would still be in the dark.

Be well and enjoy :)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #53
Hi Raffaele,
I'm glad we had this conversation.  I realise that it may have seemed lengthy and like it was going around in circles sometimes, but I also think that there are others reading it that now have a much better idea of what VST is and isn't about.

Had we not corresponded then they would still be in the dark.

Be well and enjoy :)

I'm at a turning point.
I downloaded a piano .dll and uploaded it to the VSThost plugin
In practice now the NWC plays the sounds of the VST but evidently struggles and plays them in slow motion.
So the virtual cable works.
Maybe my RAM doesn't have the strength to make it all work. or it's a latency problem. I will try to download Asio4all

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #54
<snip>
In practice now the NWC plays the sounds of the VST but evidently struggles and plays them in slow motion.
So the virtual cable works.
Maybe my RAM doesn't have the strength to make it all work. or it's a latency problem. I will try to download Asio4all
This isn't what I'd call a latency problem, which is more of a delay rather than slow motion.

I think it is probably related to the VST host, but could you tell me if the note chase in NWC has slowed down, or does the note chase happen at normal speed and only the sound is slow?

Please check this before installing ASIO4all if it's not too late.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #55
This isn't what I'd call a latency problem, which is more of a delay rather than slow motion.


I think it is probably related to the VST host, but could you tell me if the note chase in NWC has slowed down, or does the note chase happen at normal speed and only the sound is slow?

Please check this before installing ASIO4all if it's not too late.
È tutto molto lento.
Anche se ho un metronomo di 120 la musica va a 20 bpm

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #56
È tutto molto lento.
Anche se ho un metronomo di 120 la musica va a 20 bpm
From Google Translate:
Everything is very slow.
Even though I have a metronome of 120 the music goes at 20 bpm
More ... LikeQuote
====

I assume this means the note chase is also slow.  I have no idea how this can be so.
I could understand if the note chase was normal speed and the sound was slow, but not both because as far as I know there is no 2-way communication from the synth back to NWC.

Does anyone else have a clue?  Am I missing something obvious?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #57
From Google Translate:
Everything is very slow.
Even though I have a metronome of 120 the music goes at 20 bpm
More ... LikeQuote
====

I assume this means the note chase is also slow.  I have no idea how this can be so.
I could understand if the note chase was normal speed and the sound was slow, but not both because as far as I know there is no 2-way communication from the synth back to NWC.

Does anyone else have a clue?  Am I missing something obvious?

Secondo me il mio pc non è abbastanza potente.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #58
Well, when you don't have enough resources (RAM/CPU), then this is most probably the reason an "under-performing" system, because sound synthesis requires quite some resources.

You can verify your resources yourself by opening the task manager (when you right click in the taskbar, you can find the task manager link). If CPU or Memory or even disk pass 90%, then your PC cannot follow the software.
If you are lucky you can stop other resource consuming programs (like mail/browser/video software/...) and get a reasonable sound.
If that is not sufficient, you could opt for a "smaller" soundfont (if working with soundfonts) or less effects (if using VST based music).

I have tested different soundfonts in combination with virtual midi synth like
(*) Yamaha-C5-Salamander-JNv5.1.sf2 (591 MB),
(*) TOH-GM_GS_XG_SFX.sf2 (370 MB)
(*) titanic.sf2 (280 MB)
(*) SGM-V2.01.sf2 (235 MB),
(*) FluidR3_GM.sf2 (144 MB)
(*) WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB)
(*) sinfon36.sf2 (44 MB)
(*) merlin_gm36.sf2 (32 MB)
(*) Choir.sf3 (32 MB)
(*) GeneralUser_GS_SoftSynth_v144.sf2 (30 MB)
(*) merlin_plus23.sf2 (16 MB)
(*) Jeux14.sf2 (4 MB) - but this overwrites the first channels with only Organ sound

Finally I have chosen to install the relative small, older soundfonts WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB) and WST25FSTein.SF2 (21 MB) and I am very happy with it.

A long time ago I also tried to route the midi output to the virtual patch cables (MidiOx) and into a VST (synthfont), to get a long reverb for a church organ, but I did that only for one piece. 

What I recently did, was
(*) exporting an NWC file as midi
(*) recording my own voice with audacity
(*) importing both in LMMS (a free DAW) and adding soundfonts/VST's/effects/automations to the differents tracks
(*) export the final result in an MP3 file.
Maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but until I find something better, this is how I will work, I think.

Bart

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #59
Well, when you don't have enough resources (RAM/CPU), then this is most probably the reason an "under-performing" system, because sound synthesis requires quite some resources.

You can verify your resources yourself by opening the task manager (when you right click in the taskbar, you can find the task manager link). If CPU or Memory or even disk pass 90%, then your PC cannot follow the software.
If you are lucky you can stop other resource consuming programs (like mail/browser/video software/...) and get a reasonable sound.
If that is not sufficient, you could opt for a "smaller" soundfont (if working with soundfonts) or less effects (if using VST based music).

I have tested different soundfonts in combination with virtual midi synth like
(*) Yamaha-C5-Salamander-JNv5.1.sf2 (591 MB),
(*) TOH-GM_GS_XG_SFX.sf2 (370 MB)
(*) titanic.sf2 (280 MB)
(*) SGM-V2.01.sf2 (235 MB),
(*) FluidR3_GM.sf2 (144 MB)
(*) WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB)
(*) sinfon36.sf2 (44 MB)
(*) merlin_gm36.sf2 (32 MB)
(*) Choir.sf3 (32 MB)
(*) GeneralUser_GS_SoftSynth_v144.sf2 (30 MB)
(*) merlin_plus23.sf2 (16 MB)
(*) Jeux14.sf2 (4 MB) - but this overwrites the first channels with only Organ sound

Finally I have chosen to install the relative small, older soundfonts WeedsGM3.sf2 (53 MB) and WST25FSTein.SF2 (21 MB) and I am very happy with it.

A long time ago I also tried to route the midi output to the virtual patch cables (MidiOx) and into a VST (synthfont), to get a long reverb for a church organ, but I did that only for one piece. 

What I recently did, was
(*) exporting an NWC file as midi
(*) recording my own voice with audacity
(*) importing both in LMMS (a free DAW) and adding soundfonts/VST's/effects/automations to the differents tracks
(*) export the final result in an MP3 file.
Maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but until I find something better, this is how I will work, I think.

Bart

I soundfont che finora ho scaricato me li supporta. Forse con i vst non riesce. Controllerò quello che mi hai detto. Io il reverbero lo metto dopo. Converto prima il midi in wav o mp3 e poi lo apro con cooledit.
La stereofonia la ottengo con multipoint controller e devo dire che è indispensabile.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #60
Quote
La stereofonia la ottengo con multipoint controller e devo dire che è indispensabile.
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #61
I use NWC with VirtualMIDISynth  to drive Sinfonia_36.sf2 soundfont.

If I need to produce and MP3, then I export to MIDI and use Synthfont2 to render MIDI to MP£.  I use the same soundfont with  Synthfont2.  This software can use VST plugins but I never bothered to explore in that direction as my needs are satisfied just using the sf2.

Results are quite passable for, say, adding background music to a holiday snaps video.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #62
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...
Domani proverò

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #63
Niente da ridire sull'indispensabilità, ma perché non imposti semplicemente "Staff properties -> MIDI -> Stereo pan" per i vari canali?
Sempre ammesso che tu non voglia dei pan dinamici, nel qual caso...
I tried to handle these values (127-0) But practically nothing happens. The sounds remain central.
With the Multipoint controller, on the other hand, I had a good spatial arrangement

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #64
I tried to handle these values (127-0) But practically nothing happens. The sounds remain central.
With the Multipoint controller, on the other hand, I had a good spatial arrangement
The only way I can think of that this might happen is if there is another staff, below the one you set, that is on the same channel and has the pan settings at 64.

E.G. Staff1 is Trumpet 1 is on, say, channel 3 with pan at 25, BUT Staff2 is Trumpet 2 and is also on channel 3 but with pan at 64.  Because both staves are on the same channel the last staff processed defines all the staff settings for both staves, including pan settings.

Two files attached each with 2 staves:
PanDemo1.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on different MIDI channels (1 and 2), left, then right, then left again etc. and plays back that way.
PanDemo2.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on the SAME MIDI channel (1), staff 1 is set left and staff 2 is set right but on playback everything from both staves is to the right
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #65
The only way I can think of that this might happen is if there is another staff, below the one you set, that is on the same channel and has the pan settings at 64.

E.G. Staff1 is Trumpet 1 is on, say, channel 3 with pan at 25, BUT Staff2 is Trumpet 2 and is also on channel 3 but with pan at 64.  Because both staves are on the same channel the last staff processed defines all the staff settings for both staves, including pan settings.

Two files attached each with 2 staves:
PanDemo1.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on different MIDI channels (1 and 2), left, then right, then left again etc. and plays back that way.
PanDemo2.nwctxt is alternating trumpets on the SAME MIDI channel (1), staff 1 is set left and staff 2 is set right but on playback everything from both staves is to the right

Si ok funziona! grazie.
Ho notato che il massimo di canali sono 16.
Ma è impossibile non mettere 2 strumenti in un canale.. . In una strumentazione di orchestra e Banda sarebbe praticamente impossibile.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #66
Intanto i canali "normali" sono 15. Il canale 10 è riservato alle percussioni.
Poi puoi usare più sintetizzatori ("device"), ognuno con i suoi 15+1 canali. La vecchia soundblaster live aveva 2 synth HW!

Va bene che in una banda ci sono molti strumenti, ma le trombe possono usare più pentagrammi ma condividere lo stesso canale MIDI.
Idem per i flauti, e i clarinetti ecc...

E poi guarda che non sei tenuto a usare un canale per un solo (tipo di) strumento.
Se in quel momento uno strumento non deve suonare, il canale è utilizzabile per un altro, salvo poi rifare il cambio.
Per anni ho usato una Gem che aveva solo 5 patch (leggi: canali) contemporanee.
Non sarà sempre un pieno orchestrale, no?

Guardati qualche esempio nello scriptorium.
Cosa ne dici dei "Quadri" orchestrati da Ravel?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #67
Intanto i canali "normali" sono 15. Il canale 10 è riservato alle percussioni.
Poi puoi usare più sintetizzatori ("device"), ognuno con i suoi 15+1 canali. La vecchia soundblaster live aveva 2 synth HW!

Va bene che in una banda ci sono molti strumenti, ma le trombe possono usare più pentagrammi ma condividere lo stesso canale MIDI.
Idem per i flauti, e i clarinetti ecc...

E poi guarda che non sei tenuto a usare un canale per un solo (tipo di) strumento.
Se in quel momento uno strumento non deve suonare, il canale è utilizzabile per un altro, salvo poi rifare il cambio.
Per anni ho usato una Gem che aveva solo 5 patch (leggi: canali) contemporanee.
Non sarà sempre un pieno orchestrale, no?

Guardati qualche esempio nello scriptorium.
Cosa ne dici dei "Quadri" orchestrati da Ravel?

I quadri di ravel? Se mi dai il link lo ascolto con piacere

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #68
Basta cercare nello Scriptorium: Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. Non posso passarti il link diretto perché Rich, onde evitare casini, ha fatto in modo che non fossero possibili.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #69
Si ok funziona! grazie.
Ho notato che il massimo di canali sono 16.
Ma è impossibile non mettere 2 strumenti in un canale.. . In una strumentazione di orchestra e Banda sarebbe praticamente impossibile.
From Google translate:
Yes ok it works! thank you.
I noticed that the maximum of channels are 16.
But it is impossible not to put 2 instruments in one channel ... In an orchestra and band instrumentation it would be practically impossible.
====
True, but on the other hand, if you are trying to emulate an orchestra then all the trumpets will be close together, and all the violins will be close together etc. and if each group are sharing a channel then there is no real benefit of trying to pan each trumpet, or each violin etc. to separate them.  In the real world you would not be able to tell which trumpet is playing from it's position.

Thus, panning the channel that all the trumpets are on so they sound like they are coming from the trumpet location in the orchestra is sufficient.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #70
I quadri di ravel? Se mi dai il link lo ascolto con piacere
From Google translate:
Ravel's paintings? If you give me the link, I listen to it with pleasure

Basta cercare nello Scriptorium: Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. Non posso passarti il link diretto perché Rich, onde evitare casini, ha fatto in modo che non fossero possibili.
From Google translate:
Just look in the Scriptorium: Ravel - Tableaux d'une exposition.
N.B. I can't give you the direct link because Rich made sure they were not possible in order to avoid trouble.
====

True.  However the Scriptorium is an excellent resource and the general link will work:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/

Raffaele: In Flurmy's reply you may have noticed that the word "Scriptorium" is faintly underlined.  This indicates it is a link and in this case will take you to the part of the scriptorium where Ravel's works are listed.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #71
Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #72
Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Hey @Richard Woodroffe , how does the web based playback of .nwc files on the Scripto work?
Are you sending audio or a MIDI stream?

I'm asking because the talk above about the Ravel piece made me a little curious and I chose to play it back before I downloaded it and felt the audio wasn't the best.  When I downloaded it and played back through the Coolsoft synth it was much better.

N.B. I haven't bothered to hack my Win10 to use the coolsoft synth as the default MIDI device.

<Edit> turns out I don't need to hack my Win10 afterall:
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/midimapper

Which I think also suggests you're sending an audio stream.  If correct, and therefore as you would need to run a synth, may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?

Thanks mate

Trovato.
Molto interessante questa banca dati.
Co sono alcuni suoni che forse andrebbero rivisti. Ad esempio string ensamble 2 al posto dei s. e. 1. Verrebbero più legati e meno aggressivi. Gli S. E. 2 sono più utili nelle frasi veloci. Mentre i S. E. 2 buoni per i tappeti lenti



Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #75
Nooooo ! Those are the soundfonts used. 

I was answering your question :

Quote
may I ask which soundfont, if any, you're using?
Rich.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #76
Molto interessante questa banca dati.
Oh, yes, and we have to thank Rich for that.
I'm surprised it looks new to you: Lawrie already directed you there many times in this very thread!


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #78
Oh, yes, and we have to thank Rich for that.
I'm surprised it looks new to you: Lawrie already directed you there many times in this very thread!
Sto imparando una cosa alla volta.
In questo forum sono molte le cose che per me sono una lingua sconosciuta.
Però sono sulla buona strada.
Oggi ho scaricato una Daw e ho ascoltato molti dei lavori di scriptorium. Ho fatto progressi importanti e vi ringrazio per i post interessanti

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #79
Back at the start of this thread I said:
LIKE:
Merlin_GMpro(v3.15)                                      I really like the trombone sound and none of the other sounds I've used irritate me enough to look further at the moment.

Well, I've found something I don't like  :(
Sometimes during playback the timing gets a little, umm, wonky.  Interestingly it seems to be note combination specific.  E.G I have a piece I'm noodling with and the trumpet is playing quavers...  Arrgh, check the attachment.  The highlighted note is the problem child.  If I change it from the Bb (Tpt part is still in concert pitch and the key sig is Bb) the problem goes away, otherwise it plays delayed and sounds like a machinegun.
At first I thought it might be the synth but then I remembered problems others have had that turned out to be the soundfont so I tried some others. 
Aside from the generally disappointing brass sounds (familiar complaint? ;) ) playback was fine.  So it seems the soundfont is what's at fault.
I haven't tried a different synth to check if it's the combination of soundfont and synth or if it's purely the soundfont.

Anyhoo, one soundfont I tried was a different Merlin version:
Merlin_Audigy(v1.14)
and it's better, though I've still found a slight hint of the timing issues so I'm now on a serious hunt for a new favourite soundfont.
 Or maybe synth, still not sure if it's the combination of the two that makes the problem apparent...

<edit> Update:  I've now tested this soundfont with a different synth and the problem remains so Coolsoft appears to be exonerated.  "Soundfont Shuffle" time again, sigh :(


<'nother edit> New update:  Somehow it's the piano patch (0) glitching up the trumpet - if I mute the piano patch or change it to any other instrument (I actually only tried about 4) the problem goes away... This is the second time I've identified an accoustic grand  piano patch related problem in a soundfont.
 Last time it was Airfont340 (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=10126.msg72826#msg72826) GRRRR (Insert giant grumpy face here). 
What I don't understand is how it can screw up a completely different patch on a completely different channel and playing completely different notes. 
Definitely "Soundfont Shuffle" time again, sigh :(


I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #80
Thanks for sharing!

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #81
Sto imparando una cosa alla volta.
In questo forum sono molte le cose che per me sono una lingua sconosciuta.
Però sono sulla buona strada.
Oggi ho scaricato una Daw e ho ascoltato molti dei lavori di scriptorium. Ho fatto progressi importanti e vi ringrazio per i post interessanti

Sono arrivato finalmente a delle conclusioni, scaricando, installando e disinstallando software
1) per caricare buoni vst ci vuole un computer potente
2) se carico dei vst mediocri, il pc tutto sommato li carica ma i suoni sf2 sono comunque migliori.
3) esportando in midi, alcune Daw riescono a leggere i midi con vst, ma se già aggiungo tracce il Daw va in crash. Forse perché la ram non è abbastanza.
Vi ringrazio. Se ho fatto questi passi avanti è stato anche merito vostro.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #82
From Google Translate:
I finally came to conclusions by downloading, installing and uninstalling software
1) to load vst vouchers you need a powerful computer
2) if I load some mediocre vst, the pc loads them all in all but the sf2 sounds are still better.
3) exporting to midi, some Daw can read midi with vst, but if I already add tracks the Daw crashes. Perhaps because the ram is not enough.
Thank you. It was also thanks to you if I made these steps forward.
Hi Raffaele,
I wonder if you could tell us what your computer configuration is?
Brand and model if it's a "name" type machine (E.G. Dell, Lenovo, HP, ASUS etc.)
CPU model and speed
How much RAM (and speed if you know)
Disk space (and how much is free)

For our purposes that's probably all that's necessary.  Thanks.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #83
From Google Translate:Hi Raffaele,
I wonder if you could tell us what your computer configuration is?
Brand and model if it's a "name" type machine (E.G. Dell, Lenovo, HP, ASUS etc.)
CPU model and speed
How much RAM (and speed if you know)
Disk space (and how much is free)

For our purposes that's probably all that's necessary.  Thanks.
Scusa il ritardo.
Lenovo
AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics       2.00 GHz
Ram 8 Gb
x64 bit
Spazio libero HD 85 GB su 460


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #84
From Google translate:
Sorry for the delay.
Lenovo
AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics 2.00 GHz
Ram 8 Gb
x64 bit
Free space HD 85 GB on 460
Thanks Raffaele.
From what I'm reading it's pretty low powered in comparison with many systems.  Also 8Gb of RAM isn't really a lot for a 64bit system.
I can't advise whether it's economically worthwhile upgrading the RAM but I would recommend a minimum of 16Gb for 64bit Windows.
For what it's worth, when I was still making a living in IT the MINIMUM free disk space you wanted to have on a Windows system disk was 20% of total capacity.  You're down to 18.5%.  Remember, this is only a rule of thumb so there's no need to really worry about it, 85Gb is actually a huge amount of space, but if it was my system I think I'd do a bit of a cleanup.  Deleting old temp files is a great place to start.  It isn't so much the amount of space the temp files use, but rather the number of them.  The more files in the temp structure the more file handles windows has the track and this can really slow performance*.

Win 10 comes with a disk cleanup app, run it and see what space it you can recover.  I would delete temporary files, and maybe temporary internet files (this might impact any tabs you use a lot), possibly empty the recycle bin unless you use it a lot. 
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I am not in front of your machine so any advice like this is a guess, not definitive, though it's normally quite safe to delete temp files.  It's always best to have a full backup first.

I seriously think that modern VST applications will be very unhappy in this environment.  Stick to a plain softsynth like Coolsoft for best performance.

* I remember a clients machine many, many years ago that used to take around 10 minutes to boot.  They would literally start the machine and go have morning tea while they waited for it to start.  I was looking into a problem on another machine in the same area and they mentioned how bad it was.  I had some time so I checked it out.  I forget the number of temp files it had, but I have a feeling it was almost 1,000,000.  I do remember it took a long time to delete them all.  Afterwards the machine would boot in around 1 minute.  Quite a difference wouldn't you say?  It also ran considerably faster.  This was probably around 2000 so maybe win95 or 98.  Recent versions of Windows handle temp files much much better, but a cleanup is always a good idea.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #85
From Google translate:Thanks Raffaele.
From what I'm reading it's pretty low powered in comparison with many systems.  Also 8Gb of RAM isn't really a lot for a 64bit system.
I can't advise whether it's economically worthwhile upgrading the RAM but I would recommend a minimum of 16Gb for 64bit Windows.
For what it's worth, when I was still making a living in IT the MINIMUM free disk space you wanted to have on a Windows system disk was 20% of total capacity.  You're down to 18.5%.  Remember, this is only a rule of thumb so there's no need to really worry about it, 85Gb is actually a huge amount of space, but if it was my system I think I'd do a bit of a cleanup.  Deleting old temp files is a great place to start.  It isn't so much the amount of space the temp files use, but rather the number of them.  The more files in the temp structure the more file handles windows has the track and this can really slow performance*.

Win 10 comes with a disk cleanup app, run it and see what space it you can recover.  I would delete temporary files, and maybe temporary internet files (this might impact any tabs you use a lot), possibly empty the recycle bin unless you use it a lot. 
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  I am not in front of your machine so any advice like this is a guess, not definitive, though it's normally quite safe to delete temp files.  It's always best to have a full backup first.

I seriously think that modern VST applications will be very unhappy in this environment.  Stick to a plain softsynth like Coolsoft for best performance.

* I remember a clients machine many, many years ago that used to take around 10 minutes to boot.  They would literally start the machine and go have morning tea while they waited for it to start.  I was looking into a problem on another machine in the same area and they mentioned how bad it was.  I had some time so I checked it out.  I forget the number of temp files it had, but I have a feeling it was almost 1,000,000.  I do remember it took a long time to delete them all.  Afterwards the machine would boot in around 1 minute.  Quite a difference wouldn't you say?  It also ran considerably faster.  This was probably around 2000 so maybe win95 or 98.  Recent versions of Windows handle temp files much much better, but a cleanup is always a good idea.

Ho già fatto tutto quello che era possibile. Ma purtroppo non riesce proprio.
Con coolsoft va una meraviglia.
La mia era una attività esplorativa per vedere se con questo pc potevo acquistare qualche pacchetto suoni VST Garritan ecc.
Penso che dovrò acquistare un nuovo pc
Grazie ancora

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #86
From Google Translate:
I have already done everything that was possible. But unfortunately it just fails.
With coolsoft it goes great.
Mine was an exploratory activity to see if with this pc I could buy some VST Garritan sound packs etc.
I think I will have to buy a new pc
Thanks again

Happy to have been of some assistance.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #87
From Google Translate:
Happy to have been of some assistance.

Ho un altra richiesta di aiuto.
Ultimamente ho acquistato dei sf2 dove vi stava scritto che c'erano 10 tipi di violini ecc.
Ma nella scelta dello strumento mi da sempre e solo un tipo di violino. Inoltre nella tree che ho scaricato , i suoni non corrispondono con la scelta. Solo la nvc tree corrisponde con il suono. Ma ne fa scegliere solo 2
Es. String ensemble 1 è string ensemble 2

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #88
From Google translate:
I have another call for help.
Lately I bought some sf2 where it was written that there were 10 types of violins etc.
But in choosing the instrument he always gives me only one type of violin. Also in the tree that I have downloaded, the sounds do not correspond with the choice. Only the nvc tree matches with the sound. But it only lets you choose 2
Eg String ensemble 1 is string ensemble 2
Hi Raffaele,
the best suggestion I have is that not all sf2 files are General MIDI (GM).  That means that they do not conform with the GM arrangement of instruments.
E.G. in a zero based GM arrangement Patch 0, Bank 0 is an accoustic grand piano, but patch 40, bank 0 is a violin.
The GM arrangement of instruments is a well known standard, BUT it does not mean that every synth/soundfont MUST comply with that standard.
In the GM standard there is only 1 violin, full stop.  Anything that has more than 1 violin is no longer a GM synth.  It may be an extension of GM, or it may be completely different. 
You will need to check the documentation for the soundfonts you purchased to know the instrument bank and patch numbering.  Or you could do some trial an error, but the documentation will be easier.
Also note, some software uses 0 as a starting point for the patch numbering scheme, and some use 1 as the starting point.  Standard synth internal numbering is 0 based (0 to 127 [7 bits]).

If you open the default.nwcitree located in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Noteworthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\itrees" with notepad you will see an entry like this:

Quote
\General MIDI

\General MIDI\Piano=Bank(0,0)
Acoustic Grand Piano=0
Bright Acoustic Piano=1
Electric Grand Piano=2
Honky-tonk Piano=3
Rhodes Piano=4
Chorused Piano=5
Harpsichord=6

N.B. this is just a small portion of the whole file, but it shows that NWC uses a 0 based schema internally: the first instrument is "Acoustic Grand Piano=0".  The 0 is the patch number. 
Note also there is an entry "\General MIDI\Piano=Bank(0,0)" which shows the MSB and LSB of the bank selection (MSB=Most Significant Byte, LSB=Least Significant Byte - IIRC).  The first is the MSB.
This wikipedia article is a good guide to GM patches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

Once you have established the patch/bank schema for the soundfont(s) you can create your own itrees for use with NWC.  Use the default.nwcitree as a guide.

To use your new itree, go into the instrument selection dialogue (E.G. staff properties|Instrument|Change List...| and select your new itree from the ones available.  NWC will remember this until you change it to another list.

There is an introduction to itrees here:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5536.0

Plus general itree related stuff here:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?board=6.0

If you want to mix and match your violin soundfont with a GM soundfont for other instruments you will probably need to use multiple synths, unless there are bank selections that do not interfere with your GM set in which case you can load the violin soundfont after the GM soundfont in Coolsoft and the violin soundfont will be used for the violin sounds.  The extra violins are probably in different banks to 0,0 but your documentation will tell you this.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.