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Topic: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs (Read 10918 times) previous topic - next topic

How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

I'm using NWC ver. 2.75a.2 and have not succeeded in preventing rests from colliding with notes of other staffs when layering. I would prefer to avoid using vertical offset in staff properties. All that does is exile the rests to limbo somewhere above the staff, and this looks just as bad in the hard copy printout. Previous versions of NWC apparently had a Hide Rest feature but either my version doesn't or I can't find it. Ideas....?

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #1 –
Hi Jakeness,
you can make rests invisible - |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab)|Show on printed - Never|

For what you're wanting this will probably be fine, but the rest takes no horizontal space of its own - not really a problem if there is a corresponding object on the layered staff to consume the space.

Otherwise, you can use a usertool, like Global_mod, to move the rest off the page altogether (I usually set a rest offset of 2000 for this purpose).  NB you can ONLY do this with a usertool, the NWC UI will only allow you to set a maximum offset of + or - 15.

Global_mod syntax for this is:  Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Hi Jakeness,
you can make rests invisible - |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab)|Show on printed - Never|

For what you're wanting this will probably be fine, but the rest takes no horizontal space of its own - not really a problem if there is a corresponding object on the layered staff to consume the space.

Otherwise, you can use a usertool, like Global_mod, to move the rest off the page altogether (I usually set a rest offset of 2000 for this purpose).  NB you can ONLY do this with a usertool, the NWC UI will only allow you to set a maximum offset of + or - 15.

Global_mod syntax for this is:  Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000


Hi Lawrie,
You are clearly more advanced with NWC than yours truly. I have no idea where to find |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab) etc. in my version of NWC, and the usertool and global syntax descriptions are too advanced for me as well. I have been composing SATB pieces for my choir with NWC since 2007 and can barely read music. I remain a newbie with this software. But thanks for your input!

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #3 –
Quote from: jakeness –
where to find |Rest Properties|Visibility (tab)
The properties dialog of anything (a rest, a note, a bar, ...) can always be opened like that (this is exactly like in all other programs in Windows - NWC is a very Windows-conformant program!):

(a) highlight the object, e.g. the rest - you do that by placing the cursor to the left of it and pressing Shift-right_arrow (right_arrow is the key to go right).
(b) then you either press Alt-Enter; or you press right-click on your mouse, which shows a small menu - the last entry is "Properties ...".

For a rest, you will there see a tab "Visibility" (you can either get there by clicking on it; or - also as always in Windows with tabs - by pressing Ctrl-Tab ... where Tab is the computer keyboard key with the two arrows on it).
And there, you see the "Show on printed" combobox, where you can select "Never".

I have added a small gif that shows what to do ...

H.M.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #4 –
Quote from: jakeness –
I would prefer to avoid using vertical offset in staff properties.

But you should be using vertical offset of the individual rests in rest properties.

If you are writing SATB on two staffs (two pairs of layers) and one part is silent, when the other isn't, then you must show the rests in that part. If they clash with the other part's notes then move them using those rests' vertical offsets until they are clear. And always use an even number in the offset.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #5 –
Quote from: hmmueller –
(a) highlight the object, e.g. the rest - you do that by placing the cursor to the left of it and pressing Shift-right_arrow (right_arrow is the key to go right).
(b) then you either press Alt-Enter; or you press right-click on your mouse, which shows a small menu - the last entry is "Properties ...".
For (a) you can also highlight with the mouse, by clicking to the left of the rest and dragging right (with the button pressed) or clicking to the right and dragging left.  Likewise, for (b) you can choose Edit > Properties... from the menu.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #6 –
Thanks everyone for your replies which are extremely helpful. I was able to hide rests for my printout, for the first time. Of course, Murphy's Law dictates that other dominoes fall. In my case, I had used the "X" command to add chords above the top staff, for the benefit of guitars playing along. These chords were caught when I highlighted the rests. When I hid the rests, the chords were hidden as well. I tried vertical offset for the chord placement, but to no avail. I've attached a before and after view. The good news: the hiding procedure worked. The bad news: the hiding procedure worked!

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #7 –
Texts and rests are two very different things and each one has its own "visibility" attribute.
Simply restore "visibility" to "default" for the text and leave the rest visibility alone (i.e. as is now).

N.B. My suggestion is: forget the Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000 trick. It was used loong loong ago and now is only an annoyance. (Sorry Lawrie!)

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
<snip>
N.B. My suggestion is: forget the Rest Opts.VertOffset=2000 trick. It was used loong loong ago and now is only an annoyance. (Sorry Lawrie!)
While I understand your sentiment, there are circumstances in my preferred processes that make simply making rests invisible completely useless.  The problem is related to invisible notes/rests consuming no horizontal space.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #9 –
Quote from: jakeness –
... I had used the "X" command to add chords above the top staff, for the benefit of guitars playing along. These chords were caught when I highlighted the rests. When I hid the rests, the chords were hidden as well. I tried vertical offset for the chord placement,
Instead of using text for chords, try ChordPlay.nw from the Insert menu last item, "Objects..." or simply type a capital J.
If you also want to show guitar tablature for each chord, use Mike's GuitarChord.ms object instead, again at Insert/Objects.

You might consider using a "conductor" staff as your first staff, set to layer with next staff.  A conductor staff will be the first staff in Page Setup, set to layer with the next staff.  Fill it with rests and bars, visibility = never. 

Many things to be printed on each part can be written here - time signatures, metronome markings, rehearsal marks, whatever. 
Every time you want to print a part, have the conductor staff and the desired printed part open.  If you need to place notes in the conductor staff to anchor items, make them invisible and muted.  A conductor staff saves a lot of time and effort because it will have many items you now only have to write once instead of on every staff.  If things on the conductor staff collide with high notes on the staff it will be printed with, it's easy to adjust the height of conductor staff items; you just need to check Print Preview before printing.

I have previously entered chords as lyrics, Alignment TOP but this means playing with each note's Lyric Syllable in the Note Properties menu.  If you go this route, I would put the lyric on the conductor staff, anchoring the lyric "words" with muted invisible noted. 

Overall, I think the two Objects would be much easier to use.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #10 –
You left off the best bits about ChordPlay.nw: the fact that it can optionally strum the chords during playback, and that if you decide to transpose the song to another key, the chord names will be automatically transposed!  (Automatic transpose does not happen with GuitarChord.ms however)

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
... invisible notes/rests consuming no horizontal space.
Lawrie will know this, but new users might not:
To make notes invisible without losing the horizontal space, use blank noteheads and stem length = zero.

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #12 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Lawrie will know this, but new users might not:
To make notes invisible without losing the horizontal space, use blank noteheads and stem length = zero.
The original topic was a way to hide rests, and blank noteheads & zero length stems won't help with that. However, such a note can be muted, which essentially makes it a rest.

Also, before someone says "but what about if it is dotted", remember that if you set extra dot spacing to -1, it hides the augmentation dot.

Oh, and don't forget to hide the leger lines.

Have I missed anything?

Re: How to hide rests to prevent collisions with notes in layered staffs

Reply #13 –
Quote from: jakeness –
I'm using NWC ver. 2.75a.2 and have not succeeded in preventing rests from colliding with notes of other staffs when layering. I would prefer to avoid using vertical offset in staff properties. All that does is exile the rests to limbo somewhere above the staff, and this looks just as bad in the hard copy printout. Previous versions of NWC apparently had a Hide Rest feature but either my version doesn't or I can't find it. Ideas....?
I take your point, Mike. (Also, not being a guitarist, I didn't pick up on the strumming, my bad).
Jakeness, I notice you want to prevent rests overlapping notes when layering.  Why not just adjust the vertical position of those rests that do collide?  Instead of hiding them, when you're layering to present two parts on one printed staff (as for a duet), quarter-rests and smaller can simply be moved above or below the staff as necessary, so the user will see them as s/he sings or plays his/her part.
 Half and whole rests can sit on/hang from other lines of the staff or even leger lines.