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vertical line

Hello what vertical line is this, and how can I make it, because this is not the bar measure line is it?.
Thank you

Frank

Re: vertical line

Reply #1 –
Hi Frank,
that is, indeed, a bar line.

Bar lines don't always have to appear on a measure boundary.  Sometimes, especially in the case of some hymns, there may be a pause or delay on a beat before the last beat of the measure.  Hymns like this start with an anacrucis (up-beat), and the seemingly wrong placement of a bar line is there to "even out" measures to take the anacrucis into account.

Simply place a normal bar line, but don't do an "Audit Bar Lines" or it will get mucked up  :))
I would also consider setting the bar line to be excluded from the bar count, but that's up to you.

If you look at bar 9 in your photo, you will note there is a pause on the 3rd beat, then the bar line, and then a backwards quaver (eighth) rest in the un-numbered bar.  The backwards quaver rest is an old style crotchet (quarter) rest, so between bar 9 and the un-numbered bar you have 4 crotchets, or a full measure, just as you should.

This is driven by the lyrics, as is the anacrucis at the start of the piece.  You hold the lyirc at the pause (this finishes the verse), then continue with the chorus, which effectively has its' own anacrucis.  I would bet that the very last bar of the chorus is also only 3 beats long.

Modern music doesn't usually bother with split measures in the middle, though they should have a short bar at the end if they start with an anacrucis. 

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical line

Reply #2 –
It is a line indicating that some "segment" of the piece is ending here (as also indicated by the fermata on the previous chord). In your case, it is the boundary between the verse and chorus parts of the song (it says CHORUS above).
Today, this would be written as a "Double" barline (in NWC, with "Exclude from bar count" set, so that the bar numbering is not confused by it).
In that case of an older score, the printer seems to have opted for a "somewhat thicker line".
If you want to show this (but this will confuse readers! - it is not used nowadays; use a "Double" bar line, or even a "Broken Double" line), you can put in 3 or 4 normal barlines - NWC will then print a thicker line - see attachments.

H.M.

Re: vertical line

Reply #3 –
... just as a demonstration, here are four examples from our Lutheran church's "songbook with more modern songs", with three where a separation line is in the middle of a bar. German "Strophe" is "verse", "Kehrvers" means "chorus".

The first two examples (ChorusSeparationExample1.png and ChorusSeparationExample2.png) are of standard verse-chorus songs. One can see that a double bar line is used to separate verse and chorus in the middle of a measure:
- The first song (numbered 091) is in common time, the double bar is after 3 beats; the chorus starts with an anacrusis of two quavers.
- The second song (069) with alla breve meter has the double bar line in the middle of the second beat.
In both cases, the double line could be placed at the end of a line - I did not find an example where they put one that is in the middle of a bar in a running line; but there are multiple examples where a double line is used to separate verse and chorus at a measure boundary, see e.g. ChorusSeparationExampleInLine.jpg (0117); I see no reason one couldn't use this also in the middle of a bar.

The fourth example (ChorusSeparationExampleChorusFirst.png, 048) is a song that starts (and ends) with the chorus. In such cases, a standard end line ("Section Close" in NWC) is used, also in the middle of a line and even in the middle of a bar.

H.M.

Re: vertical line

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Well, of course you mean "anacrusis"...  ;D
I've always spelled it with the "c".  Makes more sense to me that way as you "cross" the time...  Think "Crux", the Southern Cross, where the member stars have names like "Epsilon Crucis".
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical line

Reply #6 –
Thanks  to all of  you for your explanations. It helps me to key in the note in order to look like the song sheets. But how can we key in fermata in order to have a delay, because when I play it there is no delay.

Thanks to H.M. that attached the German Songs, it reminds me when I was in Indonesia 50 years ago, I learned German language, but only 1 year and I forgot now, but I still remember some now. I live now in California with not young age anymore.

I like to sing, although not so good,  and my weakness in tempo/beat, although I can sing naturally from soprano to Bass. As you can see in my youtube channel here, if we sing quartet, my part is 2nd tennor.

Again thank you very much to all of you, please continue helping me, although with my broken English, coz in Indonesia we seldom speak English. Just if you have a leisure time you can watch my youtube channel here:
https://youtu.be/XlIeG7e04L4

God bless you all

Frank

Re: vertical line

Reply #7 –
Quote from: FrankSit –
<snip> But how can we key in fermata in order to have a delay, because when I play it there is no delay.
<snip>
Cool, Indonesian Barbershop  ;D

You can use the properties dialogue of the fermata to add a delay in 16th note time values.  WARNING: only apply the delay to one staff.  If you add it to matching the fermatas in each staff the delays sum and it'll be longer than you want.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical line

Reply #8 –
Lawrie wrote
Quote
The backwards quaver rest is an old style crotchet (quarter) rest,

I encountered this in a ancient band transcription of Pomp and Circumstance this fall.  I don't think I've ever seen it before in nearly 60 years of playing band music. 

I guess I just lead a sheltered life.  :))

Re: vertical line

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Cool, Indonesian Barbershop  ;D

You can use the properties dialogue of the fermata to add a delay in 16th note time values.  WARNING: only apply the delay to one staff.  If you add it to matching the fermatas in each staff the delays sum and it'll be longer than you want.
Thank you Lawrie for your enlightening me. What about the tempo variance at the end, I tried to enter ritardanto, but it can only wirte ritard., I want it to write like in the song sheet " rit.", how can I make it, and should we only put it on the 1st staff?, I have 4 staves to make. Also the tempo of qaurter not = 100. Should I make it in every staves?. Or what is the guide line that we should make for every staff or just in one staff.

Thank you,

Frank
 

Re: vertical line

Reply #10 –
Hi Frank,
Quote from: FrankSit –
Thank you Lawrie for your enlightening me. What about the tempo variance at the end, I tried to enter ritardanto, but it can only wirte ritard., I want it to write like in the song sheet " rit.", how can I make it, and should we only put it on the 1st staff?, I have 4 staves to make.
"rit." is actually short for "ritenuto" not "ritardando".  In NWC these symbols only affect the actual tempo if there is a target tempo mark.  You can make it invisible if you want.  Don't forget to re-establish the correct tempo once the rit./ritard./rall. section is complete.  Not that NWC implements all 3 identically as far as I can tell.

Where you place these marks depends on how you will present the chart.  If each part will be individually printed then you'll need to put them on every staff, BUT if the parts will always be printed together on one page then you have more options.

However, it's best to put the hidden tempo marks on one staff only so you don't need to go looking for the mark that's mucking up your tempo  ;)   Ditto for any pause/breath mark/caesura delays: Show the marking on each but only set the delay on ONE staff.

Quote
Also the tempo of qaurter not = 100. Should I make it in every staves?. Or what is the guide line that we should make for every staff or just in one staff.

Again, if the parts will be printed individually then each staff needs the tempo marks.  If they will always be printed together then you have options.

See also:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful/leadsheetsinnwc2.pdf
for some ideas.  This workflow description is just how I used to do it in 2010.  What I do now is basically the same, though I have developed it a bit.
Note that this is a collection of ideas and techniques - if it helps you improve your workflow then it's done its job.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: vertical line

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Not that NWC implements all 3 identically as far as I can tell.
Probably you missed an "e": "Note that NWC implements all 3 identically as far as I can tell."
Basically there are two groups of tempo variances.
The first is "Breath mark", "Caesura" and "Fermata", in which you can specify a delay.
The second is composed of all the remaining items and, as far as I know, they are all equivalent for NWC.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Where you place these marks depends on how you will present the chart.  If each part will be individually printed then you'll need to put them on every staff, BUT if the parts will always be printed together on one page then you have more options.
There are always the options "Top staff only" and "Single staff prints".

Re: vertical line

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Probably you missed an "e": "Note that NWC implements all 3 identically as far as I can tell."
Basically there are two groups of tempo variances.
The first is "Breath mark", "Caesura" and "Fermata", in which you can specify a delay.
The second is composed of all the remaining items and, as far as I know, they are all equivalent for NWC.
There are always the options "Top staff only" and "Single staff prints".
Yep, typo there, missed the "e".

"Top Staff Only" and "Single Staff Prints" work fine, EXCEPT, if you have "unneccessary" tempo markings on more than one staff it can make finding the offending one more than a little frustrating if tempo changes are made at a later date and the change doesn't "take" because a tempo mark on a lower staff overrides the change just made.

That's just one of the reasons I use layered staves to put things like tempo marks etc. when I must create parts from a score and the parts need (obviously) the common markings.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.