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Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Quite a few years ago there was a NWC page that played the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto without the need for the user to have any NWC product installed. Is there anything like that now and, if so, how would it be directed to play the specified .nwc file?

TIA

This is how it looks on another system: score.
Since 1998

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #1 –
Maybe I'm wrong (please correct me if so...) but I think some years ago there was something like a "web browser extension" or something like that, and (if I remember well...) there was a winamp plugin too...
Sorry, but this is all I can remember about this topic... Hope it helps ^__^
[...] y el mayor bien es pequeño: que toda la vida es sueño, y los sueños, sueños son.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #3 –
Re. the winamp plugin: it's quite old and it does not play the NWC2 files.
By the way: who (else but me) still uses winamp?  ;D

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #4 –
It's my understanding that the NWC Scriptorium has an engine of sorts that can play back scores directly from that site. @Richard Woodroffe , who posts the weekly Scriptorium update messages, could probably describe it better.

Mike

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #5 –
Thank you, it looks like the answer is NO.
I've found the Play button on Scriptorium listings helpful, but was looking for something that would show the score being played w/o installing the Viewer.
Since 1998

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #6 –
There is one other site you might consider: go to https://noteworthycomposer.org/nwc2abcjs and open a NWC score, or paste the nwctxt into the window, and click Convert. This will convert the score to abc notation, and will display and play the score in real time. Note that the conversion to abc notation is not perfect, but I have found it works well for most scores. It even has rudimentary support for a few user objects, such as arpeggios.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
It's my understanding that the NWC Scriptorium has an engine of sorts that can play back scores directly from that site. @Richard Woodroffe , who posts the weekly Scriptorium update messages, could probably describe it better.

Mike

Yes, it does - but this is some serverside mechanics that convert the clicked nwc file to midi and then plays the midi file.
There used to be a plugin for browsers that played files directly within the browser, but then Microsoft changed their engine that drove the plugins and so only non Microsoft browsers worked, and not all of them. Eventually Eric did away with the plugin.

I think this was 2003/2004.

The following was posted at the time :

Quote
Microsoft is at it again. Although we have never seen a formal announcement from Microsoft, it is clear to us from its behavior that Microsoft intends to drop support for standard browser plug-ins in their Internet Explorer product. Microsoft started this process several years ago, and it appears to be finishing the job. The most recent security update for Internet Explorer disables the Plugin.ocx mechanism, which in turn, turns off any browser plug-in that uses it, including the NWC Browser Plug-in. In its security bulletin, it implies that it will no longer be installing this mechanism with new computers. This means that over time, users wishing to take advantage of the NWC Browser Plug-in while browsing should switch to an alternate browser that supports the plug-in standard.

Edit - The last plugin setup file I have is dated May 2006


Rich.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #8 –
What I wanted to do was post a link in other forums that would play a nwc file--looks like a no-can-do.
FWIW, I did a webpage to parse an abc file to create nwctxt about ten years ago. https://wjporter.com/nwc/abcnwc.htm
Since 1998

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #9 –
In the end, in modern times, sending MIDI files for playing has fallen out of fashion: Mainly because the sound is not controlled, as it is created at the receiver (and we all judge music also by its sound, even if we deny it). The same is true for NWC files - they are "just" "enhanced" MIDI files, from the standpoint of playing them. Thus, all go for MP3 (or Ogg, or the like).

But of course, for someone who likes or has to read the score in parallel to listening to the music, this is not enough. So the only way of doing it is making a video that shows the score; and plays the music at the same time. There are essentially two ways:
  • Use a screen-grabber (what all the gaming people do), and record a video of NWC playing the music;
  • or create a PDF score, and embed controls in the NWC file so that the PDF pages are flipped over at some convenient point - and then once again record the screen showing the flippant PDF-score with a screen-grabber, with the audio on the background. This shows off your professional printed score, but does not hint where the score is playing on each page; but someone reading along should be able to figure this out - otherwise, the whole reading exercise is useless anyway.
I have done both - it was quite a lot of work in each case; but at some point I'd like to fine-tune both approaches so that they become simple, run-of-the-mill processes. For the second one, I use(d) the MIDI-to-keystroke feature of Bome's "MIDI Translator Classic"; my (game-playing) son provided the screen-grabber whose name I forgot.

H.M.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #10 –
H.M.,

I suppose your son uses OBS (https://obsproject.com) for capturing his games.
It is possible to define a "window" as source and you just choose NWC2.exe as the window to record.
The first setup could be somewhat confusing, but once you have a correct configuration, it is really easy to make new recordings.

Bart

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #11 –
Windows 10 has a built-in recorder.

Set NW Viewer to full screen and press Windows+G, then set the Viewer going. But, be warned, the file is very large, so you will need suitable compression software – there's plenty of free on-line ones.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Re. the winamp plugin: it's quite old and it does not play the NWC2 files.
By the way: who (else but me) still uses winamp?  ;D

I still use Winamp - it's nice to know I'm not totally alone!
 

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Peter Edwards –
Windows 10 has a built-in recorder. Set NW Viewer to full screen and press Windows+G, then set the Viewer going. But, be warned, the file is very large, so you will need suitable compression software – there's plenty of free on-line ones.

Wow! I just tried this and was able to record a score. It just might be a way to making learning videos (as opposed to just learning tracks) for my choir. What do you think?

Some questions:

What is the difference between just playing the NWC2 file and opening it with the NCW Viewer and playing it from there? I'm not really seeing a difference.

Could the capture be uploaded to YouTube without being compressed?

Is there a way to compress "in house" or does it have to be done online?

Are there any tricks anyone would recommend for making practice videos (such as changing the dynamics of parts, or creating alternate colours for the different parts, to highlight a section ex. sopranos louder and in green)?

Could this also be used to provide a "score preview" of original compositions? Is there a way to "watermark" it, or is that just for pdfs?

I've learned that the settings be changed so it can capture an audio recording as well as the video. So, sometimes I convert files to better sounds using synthfonts. Now I just need to figure out how to deal with the lag between hitting the audio play button and the mp3 starting to play. That's three things to try to coordinate: the capture button, the NWC play, and the mp3 play, and I'm struggling to get them in synch. Can anyone think of a solution or better way to merge the mp3 and the video?

Thanks in advance!

This is an exciting option for teaching and promotion! Thanks, Peter Edwards!

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #16 –
> What is the difference between just playing the NWC2 file and opening it with the NCW Viewer and playing it from there? I'm not really seeing a difference.

I don't use the viewer much, but I believe it has the ability to change the global tempo by a percent. That might be an advantage when creating a learning video.

> Could the capture be uploaded to YouTube without being compressed?

YouTube should be able to handle it just fine. That's one of the things I like about YouTube. Give it just about anything and it'll convert as necessary. Although, it may take a while to upload if your Internet connection is like most and has a much slower upload speed than download speed.

> Is there a way to compress "in house" or does it have to be done online?

Sure thing! I'm pretty sure VLC is up to the task http://www.videolan.org/

> That's three things to try to coordinate: the capture button, the NWC play, and the mp3 play, and I'm struggling to get them in synch. Can anyone think of a solution or better way to merge the mp3 and the video?

I think you need video editing software at that point. I've heard good things about DaVinci Resolve, but I've not tried it.
Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
Green Bay, WI

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Francis Beaumier –
What is the difference between just playing the NWC2 file and opening it with the NCW Viewer and playing it from there? I'm not really seeing a difference.
There can be no difference or it can be, it all depends.
The latest viewer include "bass", a SW synth that can handle soundfonts, so it all depende on what player you use in NWC and which one you choose in the viewer.
For example, at the moment I must use that crap of Microsoft SW synth in NWC, but I can use bass in the viewer with the Titanic soundfont. A whole different music!  :D

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #18 –
It seems to always come back to the MS synth. Doesn’t it?

It’s on my to do list to do something about it but I’m unsure the best way to proceed. I get bogged down in internet discussions of which is the best in terms of size and sound and then I get scared to download anything in case there is a virus.

I seem to be stuck!

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #19 –
I have little doubt: everything is better than MS synth!  ;)

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #20 –
FWIW, I've moved to using the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth with soundfonts.  There are other softsynths similar to Coolsoft such as BassMidi (I believe this is built on the same basic code as the one in the viewer) so you have choice.  These install at startup so are always available and can be used by other products too.

Prior to buying my current machine I used a HP Laptop running XP and used a Yamaha XG50 softsynth which sadly never made it past XP hence the new softsynth.

FYI, the m$ synth is a product built on a sound set licenced from Roland in the days of Windows 3, and never updated.  It's no wonder it sounds like garbage these days.

The only downside of using soundfonts is the time it takes to find one you like.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #21 –
Thanks for sharing your experience, Lawrie. I actually find Unison to be a decent sound. I found it on the midi conversion site: Solmire. I just don’t like outsourcing the file conversion process since I’m not sure how secure that is.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #22 –
I'm not sure why you want to use an MP3 file rather than the native sound from the viewer. And you can select the soundfont that the viewer uses (in Tools) so that's not a problem.

Using the viewer instead of NWC hides all the invisible bits showing up in the latter.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
There are other softsynths similar to Coolsoft such as BassMidi
Quote
VirtualMIDISynth is a software MIDI synthesizer implemented as a Windows multimedia user driver accessible as a standard MIDI Out device.
It works on Windows XP/Vista/7/8 (both x86 and x64) and is based on the great BASS library from un4seen.

Sic!  ;)

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
The only downside of using soundfonts is the time it takes to find one you like.
  :))  :))

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Peter Edwards –
Using the viewer instead of NWC hides all the invisible bits showing up in the latter.
You know you can always press F11 to go to Viewer Mode, do you?

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #25 –
True, but you don't get the bells and whistles of the viewer like tempo changes etc.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #26 –
I confess to having some issues with the viewer. Maybe I don't have it installed properly. When I try to open a project in viewer, it looks, behaves, and sounds identical to NWC2. I even tried to email myself a project and open it from the email with viewer. Same result. What am I missing?

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #27 –
Quote from: SEBC –
<snip> When I try to open a project in viewer, it looks, behaves, and sounds identical to NWC2.<snip>
At this point I'm guessing that:
a) you're still using the builtin m$ synth
b) you haven't gone into the Viewer configuration to change to a soundfont ( |tools|soundfont ) and are thus using the m$ synth there too.
 
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #28 –
That would be correct! I’ll have to have a look at that tomorrow.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #29 –
Quote from: SEBC –
When I try to open a project in viewer, it looks, behaves, and sounds identical to NWC2.
Do you literally mean that?
The differences are quite apparent. Look at the attachement.
The viewer can easily do things the NWC does with more difficulty and viceversa.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #30 –
Thanks, Flurmy, for making the side by side comparison. Yes, I literally mean there is absolutely no difference.

My non-techie suspicion is that Viewer is not opening the program, even though I use the "Open With" and select Viewer. I know I used to have Viewer, but I did change computers back in 2018 and had to reinstall NWC. Perhaps the Viewer didn't reinstall properly?

If anyone has solutions, I'd be glad to hear them.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #31 –
The viewer has a setting that automatically launches NWC when set.  This option works when opening a file from explorer.  To use the viewer you need to open the viewer, THEN open an NWC file from within the viewer. 

You can disable this in the viewers |Tools|Options menu
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #32 –
And that was the problem! Thanks for sorting it out for me. Now I need to figure out the sound improvements.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #33 –
A little further discussion:
This viewer behaviour is by design.  When you install the viewer after the editor, the viewer becomes the default application for nwc files.  For most of us this is would be a nuisance as we would normally want a double click on a song file to open the editor, hence the automatic launch of the editor.  Of course, if you don't have the editor installed then there is no problem, you just go straight into the viewer so file sharing with music teams that don't edit the nwc files is easy and they get what they need.

Having the option to disable the automatic launch into NWC stops that behaviour and makes opening files to edit from explorer difficult, though not impossible, just right click and open with...

You can also manually launch the editor from the viewer from the File menu, or pressing <Ctrl+2>

edited - in italics
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #34 –
Could you explain the purpose of the viewer if you already have the editor? It doesn't make sense to me.

Also, in the viewer, I was checking out all the functions (as I never have really used it, since I have the editor). The button which is supposed to loop the playback doesn't seem to be working. It doesn't go back to the start, but only replays the last few bars. What am I doing incorrectly?

Thanks

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #35 –
The viewer provides alternative ways of playing and displaying your scores.  Having it installed alongside the editor allows you to see and use your files the way people you distribute to who only have access to the viewer; not everyone needs to buy NWC.

My loop button goes back to the starting point after reaching the end of the score.  The starting point need not be the beginning.  I would expect to be able to use the loop button to somehow loop a section so I could concentrate on it but I don't know if it does this.  I almost never use the viewer and certainly not to its fullest capabilities, in fact, I've opened it more times tonight while checking things for posting than I have in the last several years combined...

Sorry I can't help more.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #36 –
Quote from: SEBC –
Could you explain the purpose of the viewer if you already have the editor? It doesn't make sense to me.

Also, in the viewer, I was checking out all the functions (as I never have really used it, since I have the editor). The button which is supposed to loop the playback doesn't seem to be working. It doesn't go back to the start, but only replays the last few bars. What am I doing incorrectly?

Thanks

The loop only goes back to the last place that you pressed F5(Play) . So if you last pressed F5 at the start of the piece, that's where it will go back to. But if you pressed F5 at say bar 45, the loop will start again at bar 45.

This is extremely useful for example for chorister who are trying to learn a tricky part.

So for example, a chorister can press F5 at the start of a fast  semi quaver run after having set the tempo at say 50%  and then repeatedly play that section to try and learn it.   When happy at 50% then up the tempo to 75% and repeat the process.

But understand how this works.  If you press the loop button at the right hand foot of the screen, that is only for when the music comes to an end. So when the music ends, it will start again automatically from where you last pressed F5. However,  to rehearse a tricky part, ignore this button. Just set the start point using the arrow keys. Press F5 and then when you want to play that part again, just press F5 and it will start again from the last place you started the music. (You don't need to press F6 to stop before doing this.)


Hope this helps.






Rich.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
The loop only goes back to the last place that you pressed F5(Play) . So if you last pressed F5 at the start of the piece, that's where it will go back to. But if you pressed F5 at say bar 45, the loop will start again at bar 45.

This is extremely useful for example for chorister who are trying to learn a tricky part.

So for example, a chorister can press F5 at the start of a fast  semi quaver run after having set the tempo at say 50%  and then repeatedly play that section to try and learn it.   When happy at 50% then up the tempo to 75% and repeat the process.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that is helpful. Thank you very much to all who have helped me on this thread.

Is there somewhere on the NCW webpage that explains these types of things? The help button in Viewer doesn't, and if I'm going to distribute this to my choir, it would be nice to have more detailed instructions available to them.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #38 –
Please also see my edited posting

R.
Rich.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #39 –
I will send you the help text file that I send to the choristers in my choir.

R.
Rich.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Having the option to disable the automatic launch into NWC stops that behaviour and makes opening files to edit from explorer difficult, though not impossible, just right click and open with...
An easier way: viewer -> Options -> Automatic launch in NWC

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
An easier way: viewer -> Options -> Automatic launch in NWC
Yep, that's how I have mine set, and is the default if NWC is already installed when you install the viewer.  I was just informing about options... ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #42 –
I have had a fun few days working with the NWC Viewer, and also learning to use a new capture software to make a How-To Video for my choir, showing them how to open the Viewer, access the downloaded file, use the Viewer to rehearse - changing tempo, volume, font size, looping, etc.

I tried out three programs. First, was the capture tool that comes with Windows 10. I used it before to record a Zoom seminar. The problem (that I didn't know about at the time) is that it turns off after 30 minutes. So I missed an hour of the seminar. The other problem is that it doesn't show the mouse, and it doesn't show moving between different windows. Once the first window was open (my email), even though I had moved to the Viewer, it kept recording my inbox. I experimented with doing separate capture files for the different programs, then combining them into one, but that was tiresome. I also wanted the mouse to show up.

Thanks to Google, I found a tech article comparing different software for screen recording. First, I tried an online tool:
https://www.apowersoft.com/free-online-screen-recorder

I liked being able to specify what part of the screen to record. But I wasn't sure about uploading and downloading things constantly. I'm not sure about the safety and security in using online tools in general.

Then I tried the top pick: https://www.flashbackrecorder.com/express
This is the one that I am going to stick with. I will have to edit in my video editing software, which is fine. The mouse can be highlighted in various colours, and it follows all the windows changes I make with no issue. And the express version is free.

Quote from: hmmueller –
But of course, for someone who likes or has to read the score in parallel to listening to the music, this is not enough. So the only way of doing it is making a video that shows the score; and plays the music at the same time. There are essentially two ways:
  • Use a screen-grabber (what all the gaming people do), and record a video of NWC playing the music;
  • or create a PDF score, and embed controls in the NWC file so that the PDF pages are flipped over at some convenient point - and then once again record the screen showing the flippant PDF-score with a screen-grabber, with the audio on the background. This shows off your professional printed score, but does not hint where the score is playing on each page; but someone reading along should be able to figure this out - otherwise, the whole reading exercise is useless anyway.
I have done both - it was quite a lot of work in each case; but at some point I'd like to fine-tune both approaches so that they become simple, run-of-the-mill processes. For the second one, I use(d) the MIDI-to-keystroke feature of Bome's "MIDI Translator Classic"; my (game-playing) son provided the screen-grabber whose name I forgot.

H.M.

Harald, I would be interested in learning  how to get the pdf to flip pages while music plays. Could you provide more details on that?

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #43 –
Quote from: SEBC –
Then I tried the top pick: https://www.flashbackrecorder.com/express
This is the one that I am going to stick with. I will have to edit in my video editing software, which is fine. The mouse can be highlighted in various colours, and it follows all the windows changes I make with no issue. And the express version is free.
Many thanks! Just tried it with a short file: Tallis3.mp4 I just had to remember the shortcut key for how to stop it.
Since 1998

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #44 –
Oh yes! Fumbling around trying to stop the recording is fun, but I just trim off any starts and stops that I don’t want with the Windows photo app. The paid version of FlashBack allows you to edit within it, but it’s not a big deal to use the free photos app instead.

I’ve also experimented with using the setting that allows an editable frame on the screen and found that useful for some performance videos that were mistakenly recorded with the iPhone held vertically instead of horizontally. I just played the videos on my computer and used Flashback to zoom in. This eliminates all the black bars around the iPhone video when it’s not been held horizontally to do the original video. I’m not technologically competent so am pleased when I can figure this stuff out!

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #45 –
This is my viewer mode playback of a recent file I contributed to nwc-scriptorium.org.

Son of the Puszta

My problem is that I can't get all the notes to display when the measure is close to the right edge. Is there any trick to force NWC or NWV to advance the screen before getting to the last measure or advancing in the middle? Is it possible to convert it to another notation system that has this problem under control?  TIA

Edit: problem first popped up in bar 21.
Since 1998

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #46 –
You could try Tools/Options/Scrolling note chase.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #47 –
That scrolling note chase is a cool option, but mine seems a little "lurchy", not smooth. Is that my computer? I can see how it would be a bit distracting for musicians.

Re: Is the NWC Viewer/Player available as a webpage

Reply #48 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
<snip> Is it possible to convert it to another notation system that has this problem under control? <snip>
This might be a dangerous thing to admit here, but I've shifted to Sibelius and NotePerformer for final drafts and MIDI performance. I still do all of my composing and most arranging/cleanup in NWC - nothing else out there comes nearly as close as NWC does to the experience of writing with a pencil on music paper, and I love that about this program - but with development stalled, and with other tools out there that produce much better publication-ready copy - and integrate fully with realistic MIDI playback systems - I felt forced to move on. I settled on Sib after trying it, Dorico, Finale, and LilyPond, because Sib does a far better job than the others do of reading musicxml files produced by Lasconic's NWC to musicxml online converter. There's actually very little cleanup necessary after I've moved a piece of music over. It's expensive, but the ability to produce videos natively, with the uncannily realistic sounds generated by NotePerformer, seems worth the price - at least, to me. And I've still got all of NWC's advantages for the creative part of the work.