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Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Hi all,
after looking into @Flurmy 's little issue here: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=10126.new#info_72826
I thought it might be worthwhile if we took the time to share our preferences regarding Soundfonts.

As I'm sure anyone who has spent any time looking for a soundfont that suits them knows, it can be a very long and frustrating exercise, so I thought it could be good if we pooled our discoveries. 

Which soundfonts do you like, which ones do you dislike and reasons for both.

Bear in mind, this is all subjective and should NOT be considered an objective critique as your mileage WILL vary.  My personal priority is for good sounding winds, particularly brass.  Of course my interpretation of good and yours will surely be different.  My preferences are heavily informed by my trombone playing.  If you are, say, a piano player I'm sure piano sounds will be your priority, ditto if you are a string or reed player etc..

Something I've found interesting.  In many cases certain sounds will be identical between very different soundfonts.  I can only assume there has been a lot of "borrowing" going on between authors, or perhaps many of them have used the same sources for some of their sounds.  Because of my bias for brass I have noticed this particularly in the brass sounds.

I'll kick it off:
LIKE:
Merlin_GMpro(v3.15)                                      I really like the trombone sound and none of the other sounds I've used irritate me enough to look further at the moment.

DISLIKE:
Airfont340The trombone sound is terrible and the Bright Acoustic Piano is trying to be a Harpsicord.  Also seems to have playback problems on Acoustic Grand patch
Airfont380The trombone sound is terrible
Several Creative fonts distributed with soundblaster cards I've purchased over the yearsObviously computer generated, just disappointing, though sax sounds seem to work
Roland (various)These are clearly related to the Roland sounds distributed with Windows and we all know why we don't use that!
Around 20 other soundfonts (list below)For most of them the trombone (and other brass) is just plain wrong.  In many cases strings are good, but I've found a few where violin sounds in particular are sub-standard.  In general they aren't awful, I just don't like them.  YMMV

AMBIVALENT:
Yamaha XG SoundSetThe Yamaha S-YXG50 synth was my goto in XP, but the .sf2 implementation is not nearly as good.  No longer a favourite.  Difficult to find and not worth the effort IMHO.
WeedsGM3.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Musyng Kite.sf2/Evanessence2.sf2Both from the same creator, the latter is the predecessor - Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Timbres Of Heaven GM_GS_XG_SFX V 3.4 Final.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
Titanic 200 GM-GS SoundFont 1.1.sf2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting
FluidR3_GM.SF2Generally OK, but I find the brass wanting

As you might be able to tell, I'm particularly fussy about the brass sounds...  And they're often very disappointing.

List from DISLIKE table:
053.7mg Taiji Generation V6.66 Bank.sf2
38.1mg the atomic soundfont v1.0 bank.sf2
61.9mg_Jurgen_GM_GS_Bank.sf2
65.8mg music man gm gs v1.0 bank.sf2
8Rock11e.sf2
Airfont_340.sf2
airfont_380_final.sf2
Arachno_SoundFont_Version_1.0.sf2
Creative (emu10k1)8MBGMSFX.SF2
Creative Labs 2M GM_2gmgsmt.sf2
Creative Labs 4M GM_4gmgsmt.sf2
CrisisGeneralMidi3.01.sf2
CT2MGM.SF2
CT4MGM.SF2
Hyper-VSC SF-GS v2.sf2
OmegaGMGS2.sf2
Roland SC-55 50 MB by Trevor James.sf2
Roland SC-55 54 MB by Trevor James.sf2
ross.sf2
sYnerGi 200.sf2
sYnerGi 200LE.sf2
sYnerGi-8Mb.sf2
sYnerGiGS.sf2
SYNTHGMS.sf2

Disclaimer:
To the best of my knowledge all of these soundfonts are freely distributed by the authors with the exception of the Creative ones which I progressively acquired as I purchased various Creative sound cards over the past several decades.




I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s) and VSTi

Reply #1
I assume "soundfonts" also includes "VSTi" instruments.

I use:
a) "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra" for most everything instrumental, also piano.
b) "Soundiron Olympus Micro Choir" VSTi in Kontakt 5 player for choral sounds.
c) Chorium.sf2 as a standard soundfont for "internal use", I think I also used it for a few brass instruments a few years ago - but I'm not uptodate here.

H.M.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #2
Airfont340   The trombone sound is terrible
I absolutely agree!  ;D

Of course you know that, with the help of some dedicated software, you can make your personal collection of patches (i.e. sounds) picking your best-of-the-best from many different s.f. Do you?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #3
I absolutely agree!  ;D

Of course you know that, with the help of some dedicated software, you can make your personal collection of patches (i.e. sounds) picking your best-of-the-best from many different s.f. Do you?
Yeah, but I'm far too lazy ;)
The time it would take to just identify the particular patches I'd want in the aggregate set could easily be the rest of my life!  :o
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #5
Favourite and preferred seem to be words that do not really seem to fit soundfonts.
I seem to use one until such time as I play something and suddenly the sound offends my ears.
I then change to something else.
But of course I also load up "1 instrument" sound fonts where appropriate.

Currently my general soundfont is Evanessence2 which knocked Titanic of the list.  Not perfect but it will do for now.


Rich.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #6
I found FluidR3 before it became the soundfont of choice for the Viewer, and I've seen no reason to abandon it for my work in NoteWorthy. In my work in Sibelius, which I've had to take up for situations that require a higher level of engraving than NWC can manage, I use NotePerformer, which is a virtual orchestra that operates as a plugin rather than as a soundfont. My ideal would be a new iteration of NWC with the GUI we all know and love, the same level of engraving tools you can find in Sibelius, and NotePerformer compatibility. Dream on....

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #7
I often use Unison2. I can’t remember why I chose it, but I did listen to several before making the choice.

I have been having an issue with the trombone though. I’m currently composing for trombone and piano. When I use the “play to” feature in NWC2 viewer to create an MP3, the trombone is quite a bit softer than the piano. I have to reduce the piano channel volume to around 60 to balance it out. That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m using Cool Soft VirtualMidiSynth 2.9.3.

Any ideas what the issue is?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #8
Some thoughts:
  • Do you find the same problem when playing back from the editor, or is it only the viewer?
  • Do you find the same problem when playing back normally from the viewer, or is it only the export to mp3?
  • I'm going to assume you've made sure both the editor and viewer are using the same soundfont.
  • I've found many soundfonts aren't well balanced when it comes to volume from one patch to the next.
  • Does the trombone channel have dynamic markings very different to the piano part?
  • Are there multiple staves on the trombone channel and if so does the last one (top to bottom) have a higher volume setting than the one you're using?
  • Have you tried a different soundfont to see if the problem goes away?

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #9
So many great questions. When you say editor, do you mean NWC 2 where I do my composing?

Dynamics are the same as the piano.
My editor uses the Windows computer standard sound font. It sounds fine in the editor. Trombone is its own channel. The muting does not  happen on playback in the NCW Viewer as well. I’m not sure how to check what sound font the Viewer is using. The difference appears constant with the three fonts I have loaded (unison 2 , FluidR3, and Titanic)

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #10
So many great questions. When you say editor, do you mean NWC 2 where I do my composing?

Dynamics are the same as the piano.
My editor uses the Windows computer standard sound font. It sounds fine in the editor. Trombone is its own channel. The muting does not  happen on playback in the NCW Viewer as well. I’m not sure how to check what sound font the Viewer is using. The difference appears constant with the three fonts I have loaded (unison 2 , FluidR3, and Titanic)
  • The editor is NWC where you do your writing/composing.
  • Matching dynamics eliminates that possibility.
  • For the editor, MIDI out is selected in |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab)|Devices used by play back:| - Your Coolsoft synth should appear here.
  • For the editor soundfonts are assigned in your synth.
  • In the Viewer you can also select a soundfont in |Tools|Soundfont| - this may or may not be the same soundfont you use in the Coolsoft synth
  • For the Viewer you can select a play back device through |Tools|Options| where an external synth or the internal synth can be selected.  You don't have to use the internal synth, even if you have loaded a soundfont in the viewer.
  • Playback to an audio format (mp3 or FLAC) uses the internal synth thus you need to assign a soundfont to it if you wish to use this feature.

Given point 7 above, is the soundfont used by the player's internal synth the same as loaded in the Coolsoft synth?  If not then this is likely the source of the difference.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #11
My editor output is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I’m not sure how to add Unison or whatever to the editor. Or how to add Microsoft to the Viewer (if that will solve the problem).

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #12
My editor output is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I’m not sure how to add Unison or whatever to the editor. Or how to add Microsoft to the Viewer (if that will solve the problem).
To get your preferred soundfont (Unison) working in the editor 3 steps are required, I assume at least 2 of them are already done as you mentioned you have Coolsoft VirtualMidiSynth.

For completeness, the three steps are:
  • Install Coolsoft VirtualMidiSynth to your machine.  I believe this is already done in your case.
  • Select the required soundfont in the synth.  I believe this, too, is already done in your case.:
    • click on the Coolsoft synth icon in the system tray
    • click on configuration
    • make sure the "Soundfonts" tab is active
    • Make sure the required soundfont is active in the dialogue, if not click the green "+" sign and add it
    • click OK
  • For the editor, MIDI out is selected in |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab)|Devices used by play back:|
    Your Coolsoft synth should appear here.  If not, select it from the Available devices.  Also, REMOVE the microsoft one if it is in the "Devices Used" list so you only have the Coolsoft one active.

N.B. You cannot add the Microsoft soundset to the viewer as it isn't a soundfont and you need a soundfont for the "play to" feature to work.

If I were doing what you are I would configure coolsoft and the NWC editor as mentioned above, and I would set the same soundfont as used in Coolsoft as the Viewer soundfont.  Then I would select the Viewers output as the internal synth.  (see reply 10 (from me) earlier in this thread)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #13
One thing that hasn't been mentioned recently is that the "play to" feature of the Viewer is only available if you are running the 2.8 beta version. (I'm pretty sure that is true, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #14
One thing that hasn't been mentioned recently is that the "play to" feature of the Viewer is only available if you are running the 2.8 beta version. (I'm pretty sure that is true, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
Now I think about it I'm pretty sure you're correct.  Given SEBC mentioned the feature I assume they are running it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #15
I assume "soundfonts" also includes "VSTi" instruments.

I use:
a) "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra" for most everything instrumental, also piano.
b) "Soundiron Olympus Micro Choir" VSTi in Kontakt 5 player for choral sounds.
c) Chorium.sf2 as a standard soundfont for "internal use", I think I also used it for a few brass instruments a few years ago - but I'm not uptodate here.

H.M.


Hello everyone.
I have bought the NWC in the past and am really happy with it.
Now I would like to go to the next step.
I downloaded the files of the "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra"
I downloaded the Loobe1 virtual cable
Now I don't know in practice how to make them work.
What should I do in practice?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #16
Hello everyone.
I have bought the NWC in the past and am really happy with it.
Now I would like to go to the next step.
I downloaded the files of the "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra"
I downloaded the Loobe1 virtual cable
Now I don't know in practice how to make them work.
What should I do in practice?
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #17
....the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth....
Not quite all. Some of us use SyFonOne. I find it a little easier to use than CoolSoft, but either of them will work well with soundfonts, and both of them are free.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #18
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #19
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.


I've been trying to figure out what to download and how to link NWC to VST for some time now. I am already quite discouraged.
Is there sonatina sf2? Very good.
Are the sounds the same as the Sonatina VST?


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #20
G'day Raffaele,
from what I've read Sonatina in VSTi form comes with its own sample player.  I assume this is a VST host of some kind.  If this is the version you have then I recommend you check out a couple of how to type documents from Rich Nagle, and myself.  Rich's document is better than mine.  They are on the Scripto:
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst

I also note there seems to be a soundfont version of Sonatina in which case you'd need a synth that accepts soundfonts - the default we all seem to be using is the CoolSoft VitrualMIDISynth.  If this is the version of Sonatina you have then a document by Richard Woodroffe in the same location on the Scripto, just under Rich Nagle's document is aimed at the Coolsoft synth.


I already use the Virtual midi Synt and I get along very well with the SF2s.
I wanted to start experimenting and opening up to the world of VSTs.
Before buying any Garritans or anything, I wanted to make sure my NWC was compatible.
I can't spend money without the security of being able to use it.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #21
I already use the Virtual midi Synt and I get along very well with the SF2s.
I wanted to start experimenting and opening up to the world of VSTs.
Before buying any Garritans or anything, I wanted to make sure my NWC was compatible.
I can't spend money without the security of being able to use it.

Eurekaaaa!

I was able to hear the VST sounds.
Now the problem is understanding why they feel uncoordinated. The violins feel first tied then plucked then held etc.


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #23
Not quite all. Some of us use SyFonOne. I find it a little easier to use than CoolSoft, but either of them will work well with soundfonts, and both of them are free.
Sorry.  Almost all?  ;)
I don't recall having played with SyFonOne though I have heard of it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #24
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.
Hey SEBC,
What issues are you having?
I have a problem where I get timing glitches every so often...  The playback will stumble or very occasionally suddenly speed up as if trying to catch up after a slowdown.  Doesn't happen often and rarely in the same place.  I'm not sure if it's the synth or something else in this Win10 abomination, but while rare it is annoying.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #25
Eurekaaaa!
I was able to hear the VST sounds.
Good news!

Quote
Now the problem is understanding why they feel uncoordinated. The violins feel first tied then plucked then held etc.
That one you'll just have to fiddle around with I guess.  Given those are all effects advertised for the Sonatina VSTi I'm sure there will be instructions somewhere that will help.

Using VST and VSTi's is different to using a non VST GM synth.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #26
Is there sonatina sf2? Very good.
Some Sonatina soundfont links:
https://archive.org/details/SonatinaSymphonicOrchestraSF2
https://beatproduction.net/symphonic-orchestra-soundfont/

Plus a comment from the author:
http://sso.mattiaswestlund.net/
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #27
Bill, do you have a reputable source for that one? I am having some issues with CoolSoft and thought I might switch to see if it resolves them.
The developer's website is at http://www.synthfont.com/About_SyFonOne.html: it's not secure, but I've never had a problem with it. If you're worried about that, try Cnet's download site: https://download.cnet.com/SyFonOne/3000-2170_4-75833849.html.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #28
BTW, the developer suggests using an ASIO driver. I've actually had better luck without one.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #29
BTW, the developer suggests using an ASIO driver. I've actually had better luck without one.
Yeah, I might have to go that way too...  It's just such a hassle sometimes though.

One big advantage of Coolsoft is there's no need for a virtual MIDI cable, but AFAIK you also can't output to ASIO...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #30
Good news!
That one you'll just have to fiddle around with I guess.  Given those are all effects advertised for the Sonatina VSTi I'm sure there will be instructions somewhere that will help.

Using VST and VSTi's is different to using a non VST GM synth.
357 / 5.000
Risultati della traduzione
After yesterday's enthusiasm I have sunk into despair.
The Noteworthy crashes all the time.
I think I'll stick with sf2.
I bought a good SF2 sound set but it's funny how there is no market.
The thing that strikes me most is why Noteworthy composer never thought about making life any more
simple to us who bought the program.

 

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #31
It is extremely unusual for Noteworthy to crash.  Not saying I've never seen it happen, but it is very rare.

Perhaps if you try a different VST host?

Loopbe is known to work with NWC so I don't expect it is a problem.
As Sonatina comes with its own player maybe you could try a different VST host.  I'm not sure if you can load the Sonatina samples into a third party VST host application or not so you might need to look at a different sound set too.

Of course this is entirely optional.  If you have no desire to experiment in this fashion that's fine.

Now, while I cannot speak for NWC, I am aware that when it was first envisioned MIDI was (and really still is) king.  So NWC was designed to output to MIDI, presumably in order to maximise options.  You can drive any MIDI synth you can connect to, be it internal or external:
Electric piano, organ, keyboard, software synth module, internal sound card (with HW synth), external sound module, VST host &etc.

There is a beta of the viewer that has the ability to load soundfonts, so I'd guess this is a direction NWC was planning to go.  Unfortunately that beta is now 3 years old and there have been no updates so I can only assume that something has gotten in the way of the developer doing this work.  As NWC does everything I need I am happy to await developments.

An inbuilt Soundfont player and/or VST host would be amazing but is not really necessary.  I certainly would not like to lose the current MIDI functionality if that became a necessary tradeoff.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #32
It is extremely unusual for Noteworthy to crash.  Not saying I've never seen it happen, but it is very rare.

Perhaps if you try a different VST host?

Loopbe is known to work with NWC so I don't expect it is a problem.
As Sonatina comes with its own player maybe you could try a different VST host.  I'm not sure if you can load the Sonatina samples into a third party VST host application or not so you might need to look at a different sound set too.

Of course this is entirely optional.  If you have no desire to experiment in this fashion that's fine.

Now, while I cannot speak for NWC, I am aware that when it was first envisioned MIDI was (and really still is) king.  So NWC was designed to output to MIDI, presumably in order to maximise options.  You can drive any MIDI synth you can connect to, be it internal or external:
Electric piano, organ, keyboard, software synth module, internal sound card (with HW synth), external sound module, VST host &etc.

There is a beta of the viewer that has the ability to load soundfonts, so I'd guess this is a direction NWC was planning to go.  Unfortunately that beta is now 3 years old and there have been no updates so I can only assume that something has gotten in the way of the developer doing this work.  As NWC does everything I need I am happy to await developments.

An inbuilt Soundfont player and/or VST host would be amazing but is not really necessary.  I certainly would not like to lose the current MIDI functionality if that became a necessary tradeoff.

You are very kind to answer. I really thank you!
I downloaded Vsthost as per the explanation downloaded from the site.
initially it worked. Now I don't know what happened but NWC gets stuck.
I downloaded Loopb1, Now it doesn't jam, but it doesn't feel. Can you give me the installation instruction link?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #33
You are very kind to answer. I really thank you!
I downloaded Vsthost as per the explanation downloaded from the site.
initially it worked. Now I don't know what happened but NWC gets stuck.
I downloaded Loopb1, Now it doesn't jam, but it doesn't feel. Can you give me the installation instruction link?

Did you mean this link?
https://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Vst
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.



Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #36
Chiarissimo... per me. Per gli altri del gruppo probabilmenteun po' meno.  :D

It's a long long time since I experienced an NWC crash. And I use it a lot.
I suppose it is something outside NWC.

N.B. Virtual midi Synt is based on Bass, the same engine embedded in the NW viewer.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #37
Mi spiego meglio.
Queste sono le indicazioni che mi hanno permesso di ascoltare ieri per la prima volta i suoni di Sonatina.
Oggi invece non so come mai ma non funziona più come ieri. Si inceppa NWC.
From Google translate:
I'll explain.
These are the indications that allowed me to listen to the sounds of Sonatina for the first time yesterday.
Today, however, I do not know why but it no longer works like it did yesterday. NWC jams.

Umm, OK.  I have no idea why NWC should stop working.
Although, if I recall correctly, you need to make sure the VST host is loaded before you start NWC.  If it isn't, NWC shouldn't crash, but just not make any sounds.
To be clear, the MIDI standard is what's called an "unreliable transport".  This means that the protocol does not guarantee that the message gets from the transmitter to the receiver.  For this reason there is no communication from the VST host to NWC so I cannot see how the VST host could possibly cause NWC to lockup.
Can you describe when the lockup occurs?  Do you have time to get into |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab) to change the output device?
It may be there is a problem with Loopbe (you indicated you used this instead of MIDIYoke which is described in the explanation)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #38
From Google translate:
I'll explain.
These are the indications that allowed me to listen to the sounds of Sonatina for the first time yesterday.
Today, however, I do not know why but it no longer works like it did yesterday. NWC jams.

Umm, OK.  I have no idea why NWC should stop working.
Although, if I recall correctly, you need to make sure the VST host is loaded before you start NWC.  If it isn't, NWC shouldn't crash, but just not make any sounds.
To be clear, the MIDI standard is what's called an "unreliable transport".  This means that the protocol does not guarantee that the message gets from the transmitter to the receiver.  For this reason there is no communication from the VST host to NWC so I cannot see how the VST host could possibly cause NWC to lockup.
Can you describe when the lockup occurs?  Do you have time to get into |Tools|Options|MIDI (tab) to change the output device?
It may be there is a problem with Loopbe (you indicated you used this instead of MIDIYoke which is described in the explanation)


Summing up.
The day before yesterday I downloaded
1) Midiox
2) VSTHOST
3) Syntfont (Which I still don't understand what it is for)
Once installed
I opened Midiox
I turned on VSTHOST
On VSTHOST I loaded Sonatina.dll as a plugin
I have set the midi input both in Midi Mapper
Et voilà (Cit) I heard the sounds. Although not consistent, as they alternate pizzicato held etc.

yesterday I did the same sequence again but I didn't get the result


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #39
Summing up.
The day before yesterday I downloaded
1) Midiox
2) VSTHOST
3) Syntfont (Which I still don't understand what it is for)
Once installed
I opened Midiox
I turned on VSTHOST
On VSTHOST I loaded Sonatina.dll as a plugin
I have set the midi input both in Midi Mapper
Et voilà (Cit) I heard the sounds. Although not consistent, as they alternate pizzicato held etc.

yesterday I did the same sequence again but I didn't get the result

Ok, let's see.

MIDIox itself isn't actually needed.  It is a monitoring tool.  HOWEVER, you do need a virtual MIDI cable ,either Loopbe OR MIDIYoke (which comes with MIDIox if I recall correctly).  Once installed you don't need to run it again as it becomes a driver that is always available.

VSTHost is an environment that VSTi's run in.  To explain, VST consists of 2 parts:
The VST Host (that VSTHost fulfils - don't be confused by the name coincidence)
VSTi's (Virtual Studio Instruments) - these can be all kinds of things, including a synthesizer.

SYNTHFont is a VSTi that is used as a synthesizer that plays the samples in a soundfont.  You don't need it for Sonatina so it can be left out.

Sonatina.dll is another VSTi.  This is the one that gives you the Sonatina sounds.

I would open VSTHost and make sure Sonatina.dll is still being loaded and that it is connected to the virtual MIDI cable that you want.  Then make sure the VSTHost config gets saved - I mention this in the guide.

Load NWC and make sure it is using the same virtual MIDI cable you configured in VSTHost

Once it is working again make sure you save the VSTHost config.
From now on you should only need to load VSTHost and then run NWC and it should all just work.

I hope this helps.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #40
Ok, let's see.

MIDIox itself isn't actually needed.  It is a monitoring tool.  HOWEVER, you do need a virtual MIDI cable ,either Loopbe OR MIDIYoke (which comes with MIDIox if I recall correctly).  Once installed you don't need to run it again as it becomes a driver that is always available.

VSTHost is an environment that VSTi's run in.  To explain, VST consists of 2 parts:
The VST Host (that VSTHost fulfils - don't be confused by the name coincidence)
VSTi's (Virtual Studio Instruments) - these can be all kinds of things, including a synthesizer.

SYNTHFont is a VSTi that is used as a synthesizer that plays the samples in a soundfont.  You don't need it for Sonatina so it can be left out.

Sonatina.dll is another VSTi.  This is the one that gives you the Sonatina sounds.

I would open VSTHost and make sure Sonatina.dll is still being loaded and that it is connected to the virtual MIDI cable that you want.  Then make sure the VSTHost config gets saved - I mention this in the guide.

Load NWC and make sure it is using the same virtual MIDI cable you configured in VSTHost

Once it is working again make sure you save the VSTHost config.
From now on you should only need to load VSTHost and then run NWC and it should all just work.

I hope this helps.


I really thank you.
I just restarted the PC and will do the live operations

1) I opened Vsthost and a gray screen appeared with two windows "engine input" on the left and "engine output" on the right
2) On the "File" window I click on "New plugnin" and select "Sonatina orchestra.dll. Now a window connected to a yellow wire with" engine output "has appeared
3) I check back on "Device Midi setting" and I notice that both midiyoke and loopbe internal midi pop up. Could that be going into conflict? Anyway Midiyoke selection 1
4) I open NWC, remove the Virtual midisint and add midiyoke1 from the device used by the playback.
and nothing. Stuck and then Crash


Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #41
I really thank you.
I just restarted the PC and will do the live operations

1) I opened Vsthost and a gray screen appeared with two windows "engine input" on the left and "engine output" on the right
2) On the "File" window I click on "New plugnin" and select "Sonatina orchestra.dll. Now a window connected to a yellow wire with" engine output "has appeared
3) I check back on "Device Midi setting" and I notice that both midiyoke and loopbe internal midi pop up. Could that be going into conflict? Anyway Midiyoke selection 1
4) I open NWC, remove the Virtual midisint and add midiyoke1 from the device used by the playback.
and nothing. Stuck and then Crash



I wanted to add that while I am writing I hear some notes held as if NWC was playing the midi file I submitted in slow motion

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #42
I suspect it might be a good idea to remove either MIDIYoke or Loopbe.  I don't see any benefit to having 2 devices that do the same thing and which may conflict.  Loopbe seems to have a better reputation than MIDIYoke so perhaps keep it and remove MIDIYoke?

Within VSTHost it might be a good idea to make sure there are no conflicts or double ups (say a connection to both Loopbe AND MIDIYoke).  Also make sure the output of VSTHost isn't somehow connected back to the input.

Actually, as a last resort it might be worth removing Loopbe, MIDIYoke AND VSTHost, clean booting and reinstalling just Loopbe and VSTHost.  During the uninstall, if there is an option to keep configs I would say NO as there may be a problem in the config that's causing the issue.

No need to uninstall Sonatina as it's just a .dll that you load into VSTHost.

Another thought, have you tried Sonatina's supplied player?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #43
I suspect it might be a good idea to remove either MIDIYoke or Loopbe.  I don't see any benefit to having 2 devices that do the same thing and which may conflict.  Loopbe seems to have a better reputation than MIDIYoke so perhaps keep it and remove MIDIYoke?

Within VSTHost it might be a good idea to make sure there are no conflicts or double ups (say a connection to both Loopbe AND MIDIYoke).  Also make sure the output of VSTHost isn't somehow connected back to the input.

Actually, as a last resort it might be worth removing Loopbe, MIDIYoke AND VSTHost, clean booting and reinstalling just Loopbe and VSTHost.  During the uninstall, if there is an option to keep configs I would say NO as there may be a problem in the config that's causing the issue.

No need to uninstall Sonatina as it's just a .dll that you load into VSTHost.

Another thought, have you tried Sonatina's supplied player?

No. Non conosco questo player sonatina. Si scarica a parte? O si scarica insieme al pacchetto?

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #44
No. Non conosco questo player sonatina. Si scarica a parte? O si scarica insieme al pacchetto?
From Google Translate:
"No. I don't know this sonatina player. Does it download separately? Or does it download together with the package?"
====
All I know about it is what I've read.  I haven't downloaded it and thus have not tried it either.

On the page where I found info on the SSO ( https://vstbuzz.com/freebies/sonatina-symphonic-orchestra/ ) is the following text:
Quote
Note: This library comes with it’s own sample player, no other software is required.
From this I assumed there was an included player in the download.

Ahh, I've just realised that the Sonatina.dll is the player, and you still need a host like VSTHost. 
I'm sorry for the confusion.  It's 13 years since I wrote that guide and I haven't played with VST for probably 11 of those years as the advent of a soundfont capable softsynth (I think it was Coolsoft) made it unnecessary for me.  My primary needs for NWC are notation, not playback.  I just need a sufficiently good playback to make sure what I'm writing will work.  I certainly don't need the power of full blown VST.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #45
From Google Translate:
"No. I don't know this sonatina player. Does it download separately? Or does it download together with the package?"
====
All I know about it is what I've read.  I haven't downloaded it and thus have not tried it either.

On the page where I found info on the SSO ( https://vstbuzz.com/freebies/sonatina-symphonic-orchestra/ ) is the following text:From this I assumed there was an included player in the download.

Ahh, I've just realised that the Sonatina.dll is the player, and you still need a host like VSTHost. 
I'm sorry for the confusion.  It's 13 years since I wrote that guide and I haven't played with VST for probably 11 of those years as the advent of a soundfont capable softsynth (I think it was Coolsoft) made it unnecessary for me.  My primary needs for NWC are notation, not playback.  I just need a sufficiently good playback to make sure what I'm writing will work.  I certainly don't need the power of full blown VST.
I got it.
Also I am satisfied with the SF2 sounds especially the ones I fortunately bought on ebay.
I just wanted to go ahead and see if there was room for improvement.
Do you think VSTs are really much more effective than SF2s?
I can think that thanks to the pan functions etc that are in the multipoint controller function, I get the same quality?
Is it really necessary to switch to VST sounds?
I am obviously speaking out of ignorance.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #46
<snip>
Do you think VSTs are really much more effective than SF2s?
For what VST is designed for, yes.  But VST is more about music production, not simply playback of a MIDI data stream.  E.G. I would never consider using a playback of a simple soundfont as a professional recording, but VST is used all the time for professional recording and mastering.  That's the primary purpose of the technology.
For more information, this Wikipedia article is well worth reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Quote
I can think that thanks to the pan functions etc that are in the multipoint controller function, I get the same quality?
VST is much, much more than this.  Think all kinds of special effects, filters etc. and considerable control over these things.

Quote
Is it really necessary to switch to VST sounds?
I am obviously speaking out of ignorance.
No.  If a simple synth and soundfont does what you need then there is no point in adding the complexity of VST.  For the record I believe that a soundfont and synth is far more appropriate than VST for probably every NWC user there is.  Of course, I stand to be corrected on this ;)

<edit> When I wrote the "VST for dummies like me" guide Windows Vista had just hit the streets and there were no drivers for my Creative Soundblaster Audigy II card.  (For a while there weren't even any Creative internal cards and as far as I can tell even today the internal cards that are now available do not support soundfonts.)  This meant I couldn't use soundfonts, and the Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth that was my preferred synth wouldn't work either as it wasn't compatible with Vista and there was no hope of it ever being as Yamaha had abandoned it years before.
So I needed a solution and the only thing that was available was VST.  At least this is what I thought, I later discovered soundfont compatible softsynths.  However, there was no easy entry point into VST so after much, much research and messing about I fumbled my way into the solution presented in the guide.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #47
For what VST is designed for, yes.  But VST is more about music production, not simply playback of a MIDI data stream.  E.G. I would never consider using a playback of a simple soundfont as a professional recording, but VST is used all the time for professional recording and mastering.  That's the primary purpose of the technology.
For more information, this Wikipedia article is well worth reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology
VST is much, much more than this.  Think all kinds of special effects, filters etc. and considerable control over these things.
No.  If a simple synth and soundfont does what you need then there is no point in adding the complexity of VST.  For the record I believe that a soundfont and synth is far more appropriate than VST for probably every NWC user there is.  Of course, I stand to be corrected on this ;)
Quindi mi pare di capire che con sf2 non si possono ottenere risultati professionali... Sigh
Quindi in un percorso di crescita il vst mi sa che è una tappa obbligata.
Se avessi la sicurezza che con nwc potesse girare tranquillamente i vst, acquisterei sicuramente uno.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #48
Quindi mi pare di capire che con sf2 non si possono ottenere risultati professionali... Sigh
Quindi in un percorso di crescita il vst mi sa che è una tappa obbligata.
Se avessi la sicurezza che con nwc potesse girare tranquillamente i vst, acquisterei sicuramente uno.
From Google Translate:
So I understand that with sf2 you can not get professional results ... Sigh
So in a path of growth I know that the vst is a must.
If I had the certainty that with nwc it could easily run the vst, I would definitely buy one.
======
Umm, what growth path do you have in mind?  How professional do you want?
Remember, NWC's primary purpose is creating music notation.  The fact that it's a pretty good sequencer is almost serendipitous. 
I think it would be helpful if you have a very clear picture of what you want to achieve.

The quality of sound you get from a soundfont is directly related to the quality of the soundfont, BUT for recording and production purposes you need more than just a soundfont.
If your aim is to get into music recording and production then you need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), not a notation package.
That said, a notation package is a great starting point, it's just not enough by itself.

As mentioned above, I think the real question is what do you want to achieve? 
OK, Do you just want a nice sounding playback of music you've written?  Then a synth and soundfont should be fine.  The downside is finding a soundfont you like.  I call this the "Soundfont Shuffle"  ;)
(Actually, the reason I created this thread was for people to share their preferred soundfonts and the reasons for their preference.)

OR,
do you want to create recordings for distribution or public performance?  You need a DAW, lots of time, dedication and experience, and probably some expensive addons.

N.B. I would definitely NOT be spending money on VST stuff, or soundfonts for that matter, just yet.  The first thing to do is explore the free offerings that are available to see their functionality and to determine if this is the direction you want/need to go.

By the way, NWC does NOT run the VST, the same as it does not run any synthesizer.  NWC does not create sounds, it outputs a MIDI data stream that is directed to a MIDI output.  Where the MIDI stream goes after that is irrelevant to NWC, it literally doesn't care, it just pumps data out the configured port. 
If the MIDI data eventually reaches a synthesizer then the synth will create sound as described by the MIDI data.
If the MIDI data is directed to a VST host then the VST host is responsible for what happens after it receives the data.  NWC is no longer involved.  Just the same as if the data was sent to a synthesizer.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Favourite/preferred Soundfont(s)

Reply #49
From Google Translate:
So I understand that with sf2 you can not get professional results ... Sigh
So in a path of growth I know that the vst is a must.
If I had the certainty that with nwc it could easily run the vst, I would definitely buy one.
======
Umm, what growth path do you have in mind?  How professional do you want?
Remember, NWC's primary purpose is creating music notation.  The fact that it's a pretty good sequencer is almost serendipitous. 
I think it would be helpful if you have a very clear picture of what you want to achieve.

The quality of sound you get from a soundfont is directly related to the quality of the soundfont, BUT for recording and production purposes you need more than just a soundfont.
If your aim is to get into music recording and production then you need a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), not a notation package.
That said, a notation package is a great starting point, it's just not enough by itself.

As mentioned above, I think the real question is what do you want to achieve? 
OK, Do you just want a nice sounding playback of music you've written?  Then a synth and soundfont should be fine.  The downside is finding a soundfont you like.  I call this the "Soundfont Shuffle"  ;)
(Actually, the reason I created this thread was for people to share their preferred soundfonts and the reasons for their preference.)

OR,
do you want to create recordings for distribution or public performance?  You need a DAW, lots of time, dedication and experience, and probably some expensive addons.

N.B. I would definitely NOT be spending money on VST stuff, or soundfonts for that matter, just yet.  The first thing to do is explore the free offerings that are available to see their functionality and to determine if this is the direction you want/need to go.

By the way, NWC does NOT run the VST, the same as it does not run any synthesizer.  NWC does not create sounds, it outputs a MIDI data stream that is directed to a MIDI output.  Where the MIDI stream goes after that is irrelevant to NWC, it literally doesn't care, it just pumps data out the configured port. 
If the MIDI data eventually reaches a synthesizer then the synth will create sound as described by the MIDI data.
If the MIDI data is directed to a VST host then the VST host is responsible for what happens after it receives the data.  NWC is no longer involved.  Just the same as if the data was sent to a synthesizer.
Voglio chiarire il fatto che io uso nwc dal 2005.
In quel momento avevo la versione demo. Poi ho comprato la versione 2,75 e ho detto "finalmente". Poi ho scoperto cool soft, ed ero sempre più felice. Ora non sarebbe male se uscisse un aggiornamento di suoni vst già pronti e subito compatibili. Pagherei senza problemi per acquisire quella marcia in più.