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Neumes and more
Any idea how to best notate this:

https://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/gospel_table_080519_files/A-Advent%201%20RCL%20Matthew%2024_36-44%20(2%20pages)%20101112.pdf[/b]

maybe use the shaped la note in whole  note form for the open rectangle and stemless quarter note form for the solid rectangle? What about the other parts of the score - lyrics, tiny bar lines, etc.?

The last post on this topic was 11 years ago.

Thanks

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #1
Any idea how to best notate this:
LilyPond
Registered user since 1996

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #2
As an old-timer, I'd even say: Write it manually. This can, btw, be a really fulfilling enterprise: Drawing beautiful things by hand is sometimes very satisfying (I like, at times, to draw mechanical things with pencil, (eraser,) compass, and ruler - CAD can be faster, or more comfortable, if I want to change things later - but it's certainly not so beautiful). And with the advent of copiers and scanners, one can even distribute the result rapidly to many people.

H.M.

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #3
Thanks for your ideas but I would like to see if NWC could handle this.

Here are some attempts:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Text|Text:"ʗ"|Font:StaffBold|Scale:200|Pos:1.5
|Text|Text:"ꝟ"|Font:PageText|Pos:-13.5
|Spacer|Width:225
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Text|Text:"′"|Font:PageText|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Text|Text:"\}"|Font:PageSmallText|Scale:50|Pos:1
|Spacer|Width:125
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-2g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Text|Text:"ꝶ"|Font:PageText|Pos:-13.5|Color:1
|Spacer|Width:300|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Text|Text:"′"|Font:PageText|Pos:3|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Boundary|Style:NewSystem|NewPage:N
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

I don't like the spacing of the first three words. I attempted a different approach:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Text|Text:"ʗ"|Font:StaffBold|Scale:200|Pos:1.5
|Text|Text:"ꝟ"|Font:PageText|Pos:-13.5
|Spacer|Width:575
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down
|Spacer|Width:525
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Text|Text:"′"|Font:PageText|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Text|Text:"\}"|Font:PageSmallText|Scale:50|Pos:1
|Spacer|Width:125
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-2g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Text|Text:"ꝶ"|Font:PageText|Pos:-13.5|Color:1
|Spacer|Width:300|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Text|Text:"′"|Font:PageText|Pos:3|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1g|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0|Color:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Boundary|Style:NewSystem|NewPage:N
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

but this doesn't quite fix the problem either.

Can you see the lyrics? If not, I will attach the files.

I used red for the response since I still don't know how to do italics easily. The "C" in the beginning is my attempt to copy that internet example.

Mike S, what say you?

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #4
Lillypond does have some helpful information on the stylistic qualities of chants and ancient notation. I just don't want to have to learn a new program when I can barely handle this one.  ;)

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/chants-psalms-and-hymns

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/ancient-notation

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #5
I am attaching my version of your first file, with a few alterations/corrections. A few notes of explanation are in order.

1. I found a font online called Medicea, that has the chant clef character, which I have used in place of your "C" character. In order to use that font, you would need to install it on your system, which you might not want to do. If that's the case, delete that character and replace it with your original "C". If you want to install it, I am including the font as a separate attachment to this message (it is a freely redistributable font.) You might also note that it has a number of other chant characters, but I chose not to explore their usage.

2. I found better versions of the versicle (℣.) and response (℟.) characters that you used; they are Unicode characters that are present in the Windows Times New Roman font.

3. Regarding those two pieces of text, there is an easier way to place text and preserve space, rather than adding separate spacers. Just check the "Preserve Space" checkbox on the Placement tab. I added a few spaces to the end of each letter to make the spacing look right.

4. For the vertical mark between "Christ" and "ac-cor-ding", I have used another trick: insert a mute quarter note with a blank notehead, and adjust the stem length to 2.5.  Then position it as needed.

5. Finally, for the first phrase, you want multiple syllables on a single note. The easiest way to do this is to put underscore characters between the words in the lyrics, so NWC will treat it as a single word.  Also, on the lyrics Configuration tab, you want to select Align Syllable Using: Start of Accidental/Note.

As you and others have indicated, there are other ways of producing better looking Gregorian notation, but you wanted to stick with NWC :)  I have considered something like CueHeads that would find blank space noteheads and render single note neumes at their locations, Another idea (that I don't know how to do, but perhaps Lawrie will chime in) is that an alternative font could be created, along the line of his SwingDings, that would replace the standard "modern" noteheads with neume shapes. This wouldn't handle the full range of chant notation, but it would probably do well for your examples.

Re: Neumes and more
Reply #6
Thanks, Mike. Your version is definitely better! I did download the fonts as well.

I forgot about the preserve width setting. I need to start using it!