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Persistent (stuck) notes

Hello all,

I am currently using a file of the Bach B Minor mass (which I think is on the scriptorium) as a rehearsal aid, and I have run into a problem with stuck notes continuing to play. I can remember ages ago that there was a toolbar option which cleared this, but in 2.75 I can't find this, only the more general "persistent tools" option. Is anyone able to help me get rid of the extra note, which doesn't add a lot to the music!!

Thanks in advance
Paul

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #1 –
If you click the Stop button several times in succession (or press F6), it will prompt you if you want to send a full reset for all notes on all channels. This might be the function you are thinking of.

However, if you have a score that has stuck notes, there could be a problem with it that is causing this, especially if it is using certain plugins which perform playback. If you would share the score here, we can look at it and perhaps offer a way to fix it.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #2 –


If a tie starts on one note, it's supposed to end on a note of the same pitch.  If the ending note isn't there, it used to be there would be a stuck note. 

I don't know if this changed in the last few years, but thought I'd throw it in just in case it's still an issue.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
If you click the Stop button several times in succession (or press F6), it will prompt you if you want to send a full reset for all notes on all channels. This might be the function you are thinking of.

However, if you have a score that has stuck notes, there could be a problem with it that is causing this, especially if it is using certain plugins which perform playback. If you would share the score here, we can look at it and perhaps offer a way to fix it.
Thanks Mike,
I've tried that and it doesn't seem to remove the problem. I'm now going through the score muting every staff in turn and see what I can find. I would go for the tied note issue that David mentions, but can't see anything likely yet. If I can't find it, I will link to the file

Paul

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #4 –
Don't forget to check hidden staves...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Don't forget to check hidden staves...
Yes, I did find a couple but they weren't the cause.
The file is movements 4-11 of the B minor Mass at https://nwc-scriptorium.org/bachj.html#Bachj

I have muted all staffs except the 5 choir parts. If it is played throughout (at least as far as bar 381, start of |"Qui Tollis", it seems fine. However if you try and start a "choral" movement ie missing out the solos, there is a stuck note or chord.
It's very odd!

Paul

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #6 –
I suspect that there maybe a midi overload problem on your pc perhaps. There is quite a lot going on in this nwc file around this point.
Not easy to cure.

You say you are using this as a rehearsal aid.  If it is for a choir, you may have better luck if you use John Hooper's version rather than Carl Mill's version. Yes, I know John's doesn't have lyrics but john would say that you can rehearse with your score in front of you and so you don't need the lyrics. (We often disagree on this point)

But as far as choir note bashing is concerned, the SATB lines in John's version will be accurate and the music will not suffer from midi overload since John reduces the orchestral parts down to just a few staves.

Just a thought.

Rich.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
I suspect that there maybe a midi overload problem on your pc perhaps.
I don't.
I have spent some time with the file. I find a stuck note on Oboe II if playback is started at 286
It gets worse, becoming a real mess by 381
To be continued ...

Appears to be a muted note problem. When I unmute all the notes in Oboe II, the problem at 286 goes away.
This causes the stuck note at 286:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
# Oboe II, m78
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
The stuck notes are caused by muted tie destinations on tied notes that are not muted.
To fix, unmute the tie destination note in these staves and measures:
Flute II 742
Oboe II 79, 170, 741
Violin I 5, 386
Violin II 5, 385
Soprano I 305, 313, 742
Tenor 305
Bass 600
Registered user since 1996

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I don't.

The stuck notes are caused by muted tie destinations on tied notes that are not muted.
To fix, unmute the tie destination note in these staves and measures:
Flute II 742
Oboe II 79, 170, 741
Violin I 5, 386
Violin II 5, 385
Soprano I 305, 313, 742
Tenor 305
Bass 600

Thanks Rick

I will look at that tomorrow (too knackered tonight as I've just done a 350 mile drive back home from holiday).

Paul

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I don't.
I have spent some time with the file. I find a stuck note on Oboe II if playback is started at 286
It gets worse, becoming a real mess by 381
To be continued ...
Nice one Rick.
You've obviously spent much time with this.


Rich.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
You've obviously spent much time with this.
About an hour to figure out the problem. A mistake I shall try to avoid in the future.
I should have just assumed that muted tie destinations were the problem. It only took about 15 minutes to find them.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
About an hour to figure out the problem. A mistake I shall try to avoid in the future.
I should have just assumed that muted tie destinations were the problem. It only took about 15 minutes to find them.
User tools aren't really my thing (so far), but it sounds to me like it would be useful to have a tool that would be able to find this type of thing. Either that, or an "audit ties" or "auto hanging notes" type of native function.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
User tools aren't really my thing (so far), but it sounds to me like it would be useful to have a tool that would be able to find this type of thing. Either that, or an "audit ties" or "auto hanging notes" type of native function.
I think that's an idea for my next user tool, but I have a busy week coming up. So a little patience....
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
About an hour to figure out the problem. A mistake I shall try to avoid in the future.
I should have just assumed that muted tie destinations were the problem. It only took about 15 minutes to find them.
Time well spent on behalf of the rest of us, Rick.  Not having used muting after tied notes in the past, I've now learned something.  Thank you.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #14 –
Thank you to all, especially Rick, this has cured the problem. I have actually removed the ties and adjusted the lyriucs where necessary, as I am obviously being thick and am unable to find a "muted note" property to deal with it correectly.

I think a user tool would be very helpful if this should arise in the future; mind you I've only really used the one which splits a stave with 2 parts on it into two separate staves (with mixed results if the vocal parts cross over!)

thanks again

Paul

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #15 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Time well spent on behalf of the rest of us, Rick.....Thank you.

My sentiments exactly - thanks, Rick. I DO use muted notes after ties. I also hide the notes. The ties can then be used to indicate "let ring" for percussion instruments that sustain a tone, like suspended cymbals and vibraphones. Having now been warned, I'll know where to look if hanging notes develop.

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Paulr1949 –
I ... am unable to find a "muted note" property
It is in the Notes Tab of Notation Properties. To access Notation Properties, select one or more items and press Ctrl+E
Registered user since 1996

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #17 –
I just discovered something that might be useful:
The bar number panel shows a (very) small red 'x' above a muted note in the active staff.
See measure 8 in the attachment
Always look on the bright side of life!
 

Re: Persistent (stuck) notes

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Opagust –
I just discovered something that might be useful:
The bar number panel shows a (very) small red 'x' above a muted note in the active staff.
See measure 8 in the attachment
Please note that this mute indication was added for the 2.75a beta version, and is not in the general 2.75 release.