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Note pattern throws off bar length
This afternoon I started notating Handel's Largo from Xerxes, and at the thirteen measure, something went wrong.  If you are not familiar with it, most of the piece has a melody on the treble clef, plus chords of 3 quarter notes in each measure.  The base clef is mostly 3 quarter-note chords. On the 13th measure, the melody line is a dotted quarter note followed by an eighth and another quarter.  The chords on the same clef line up correctly.  But on the bass clef, the third chord lines up under the eighth note, and it thinks there should be another 8th of a beat in the measure.  Anyone know how to deal with this?
This is what it looks like:


Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #1
On the second chord of the Right hand, in Noteworthy terms, you have to create a rest chord.
The rest chord will be rest of an eighth duration (stem up) chorded with the three quarter notes (stem down).
When you have completed the rest chord, you can edit the rest chord, select the rest chord tab and then remove the tick on the show rest box.
When the piece is printed, you will not then see the rest.


Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-5,-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-5,-3,-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-5,-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Rich.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #2
I can see I have my work cut out for me.  This same condition occurs a number of times in this piece.  And I couldn't figure out how to make it work, so I just copied/pasted what you did.  Which I can't do every time, of course, because the music is different.  I'll work on it.

Thanks, Rich, I was pretty sure you'd come through for me.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #3
I can see I have my work cut out for me.
You do indeed. There is little hope without layers. You might as well set them up now and do the notation above without a RestChord. The attachment shows one measure that will need a layer. (PDF source)
  • Last Edit: 2014-07-18 11:33 pm by Rick G.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #4
I just figured it out, but I can't quite see how I would make it work with layering.  Hey, I'm still pretty green at this stuff, so be patient with me.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #5


   Hi, Susanna.

   With layering, what you see it what you get.  Or rather, what you see on the score - some notes tail up combined in the same staff with other notes with tails down - is what you get when you use two (or more, but let's not worry about that just yet) layers for each relevant staff of the Score, one for the tail up notes and one for the tail down notes. 

   First, then, create two staves for each staff of the Score, one staff below the other (a bit like Sops 1 & 2, or 1st/2nd violins).  Preferably they should have different channels, otherwise they may not actually play properly!  And the first staff of each pair of staves should be set to layer on top of the second staff of the pair.  Then start entering the notes in each staff.

   To start with, keep the two staves separate/unlayered, and enter the notes in each, exactly as written in the Score, tail up notes on one staff, tail down notes on the other.  I recommend doing this a bar at a time, first one staff, then the other. It's simplest if you pad out each layer/staff with invisible rests of the right duration in the places where there aren't any notes with the appropriate tails but only notes with the wrong tails (provided the bar lines match, this indicates you've probably got it right).  And then, when you combine the two staves - when you permit the layering actually to be effected - they will seamlessly blend, one on top of the other, to provide the staff as shown in the Score.  And you have achieved just what you want.

   MusicJohn, 19/Jul/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #6

   Hi, Susanna.

   With layering, what you see it what you get.  Or rather, what you see on the score - some notes tail up combined in the same staff with other notes with tails down - is what you get when you use two (or more, but let's not worry about that just yet) layers for each relevant staff of the Score, one for the tail up notes and one for the tail down notes. 

   First, then, create two staves for each staff of the Score, one staff below the other (a bit like Sops 1 & 2, or 1st/2nd violins).  Preferably they should have different channels, otherwise they may not actually play properly!  And the first staff of each pair of staves should be set to layer on top of the second staff of the pair.  Then start entering the notes in each staff.

   To start with, keep the two staves separate/unlayered, and enter the notes in each, exactly as written in the Score, tail up notes on one staff, tail down notes on the other.  I recommend doing this a bar at a time, first one staff, then the other. It's simplest if you pad out each layer/staff with invisible rests of the right duration in the places where there aren't any notes with the appropriate tails but only notes with the wrong tails (provided the bar lines match, this indicates you've probably got it right).  And then, when you combine the two staves - when you permit the layering actually to be effected - they will seamlessly blend, one on top of the other, to provide the staff as shown in the Score.  And you have achieved just what you want.

   MusicJohn, 19/Jul/14

OK, I understand what you're saying, and I do know how to work with layers.  I just didn't see how it would apply here.  I'll give it a try.  Thanks.  More than one way to skin a cat, I guess.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #7
   Hi, Susanna.

   You say

   "OK, I understand what you're saying, and I do know how to work with layers.  I just didn't see how it would apply here.  I'll give it a try.  Thanks.  More than one way to skin a cat, I guess."

which is fine, and I'm sure you'll work it out.

   Mind you, from your previous comments I had rather assumed that the idea and use of layers was a bit foreign to you, but ... obviously not.

   But just to give you a little additional assistance, here's an NWC File with the notes used by Rick in his example above.  I assume, from your last comment, that you'll be able to decode this, and then use it - or the example it provides - for your further instances.

   MusicJohn, 19/Jul/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #8
How did he get the quarter note in front of the dotted quarter?  I ran into a problem with it overlaying the bottom of the dotted quarter, and wound up using a combination of the two methods.  I had two occurrences of that.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #9
The dotted quarter has the Extra Note Spacing property set to 1. That moves the note one note head space to the right.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #10
How did he get the quarter note in front of the dotted quarter?  I ran into a problem with it overlaying the bottom of the dotted quarter, and wound up using a combination of the two methods.  I had two occurrences of that.

As fathafluff mentioned, you need to use the Extra Note Space property to move notes forward if their heads would otherwise overlap when layered. Likewise, you may need to create additional accidental spacing in some cases. When you are building chords on a single staff, or using the primitive 2-layers-per-staff mode, NWC is smart enough to move noteheads and accidentals to avoid overlaps, but you will need to do this manually when you use layers. (There may be user tools that assist with this process.)

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #11
(There may be user tools that assist with this process.)
Indeed there is. See Warren Porter"s web page :
http://home.comcast.net/~wporter211/realsite/spacepart.htm
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #12
Indeed there is.
Did you try it with MusicJohn's file?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #13
   Hi again, Susanna.

   I'm not normally one who cares much what a Noteworthy File looks like when printed out, being on the whole more interested in what it sounds like so I can use it for learning to sing a Work.  Accordingly, maybe my attached attempt at Handel's Xerxes "Largo" - "Ombra mai fu" - made in NWC 1.75 from the available IMSLP Score will not look as pretty, and be not quite as "correct", as it should (it doesn't play that well, either, but the tricks I normally use for playing would mess up the visual appearance, so I omitted them).  If you find a few visual mistakes - maybe I should have given a note some extra spacing, or shifted a rest or a dynamic up, down or sideways, or forgotten to make something invisible - please forgive me!

   Incidentally, I normally double up the base line, as here, in an attempt to give the music the feel of greater depth and solidity.

   I don't think this IMSLP Score is the one you're working from, so I hope that I have been able to offer you some insight into using layers without at the same time spoiling your fun!  [:-)]

   MusicJohn, 20/Jul/14




Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #14
To all of you, thanks!  MusicJohn, I downloaded your file, and will look at it at my leisure.  I'm sure it will have many things to teach me! I wasn't familiar with the extra note spacing property.  I'm sure I've seen it before, because I frequently bring up the dialog box it's in.  I was just going to finish notating the piece, then set it aside until I get more proficient with the software.  Now I can keep going, for a while, anyway.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #15
MusicJohn - another question - I notice you have braces on the two violin staves; how do you make them cross the layered staves?  I try it, and it only puts the brace between the first staff, and the one it is layered to.

And another note - my version is strictly a piano version, no option for voice.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #16
   Once more hi, Susanna.

   You say:-

   "I notice you have braces on the two violin staves; how do you make them cross the layered staves?"

   Simple.  Look at the score unlayered.  You'll see that the two outside staves - the top and bottom ones - have upper or lower Grand Staff styles (see the F2 visual tab), as appropriate, which combine to make the brace, but the two inside ones have Orchestral-style bar line styles, which ensure the bar lines meet across the "two" staves.  When the staves are layered Noteworthy combines and merges, and it all comes out right (Noteworthy is quite clever; it will always try to extend any upper Grand Staff symbol until it meets a lower Grand Staff symbol).

   You add:-

   "And another note - my version is strictly a piano version, no option for voice."

   Ah.  Yes; I thought our scores were different.  Well I can't do it all for you - that would take away all your fun! [:-)] - but I'm sure you'll be able to apply the "lesson" of my Contralto-soloist version (which is what Handel wrote) to your piano one.  For the most part you'll see that the Contralto line is what's at the top of the piano right hand!

   Good luck.

   MusicJohn, 21/Jul/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #17
Yes, I did notice that.  I am working from a book that was in a set many eons ago - a piano teacher when I was in college was giving away the set to his students, a couple or so to each student.  They were compiled in order of difficulty, within the books, and from book to book.  I got the first two books, which gives you an idea where I stood in proficiency!

I've got all the notation done now, and I've put in a few of the arpeggios.  From now on, everything is refinement.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #18
   

   Hi, Susanna.

   Presumably by now you have completed your rendition of the Largo?  Perhaps you'd like to tell us how you got on ... even let us see your resultant File (which I'm sure we'd find of interest)?

   MusicJohn, 14/Aug/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #19
   

   Hi, Susanna.

   Presumably by now you have completed your rendition of the Largo?  Perhaps you'd like to tell us how you got on ... even let us see your resultant File (which I'm sure we'd find of interest)?

   MusicJohn, 14/Aug/14

Yes, I finished it, without the pedal notations, because I can't find any kind of font to handle them - they have so many that are up/down on one note, and the characters I used on another piece won't work for that.  In any case, on the other one I mentioned, it doesn't look right in either the software or the viewer, but I got it to work for the print.

One other little problem I was unable to solve with Largo was the final chord - on the treble clef there is a single chord, on the bass clef, a chord preceded by a grace note, and it winds up sounding the chords separately

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #20
I just used text for the articulations, because my sound board doesn't seem to accommodate them very well.  I have to turn it almost full volume to hear the "p" indicated notes.  Which makes other parts extremely loud.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #21
   Hi, Susanna.

   Thanks for showing us your Largo File.

   Listening to it, I suspect - though I don't have a proper score to compare it with - that you may have miskeyed in a few places - thus, in Bars 12, 19, 29, 30, 33, 52, 63, 68 and 89.  It's easily done, I'm afraid, and for me there's no substitute to listening again and again and hunting down the errors that make it sound wrong.

   The final chord - and, indeed, any of the other arpegios - could be improved by inserting invisible "grace note" rests in the other hand to match the grace notes in the one hand.  Then the notes of both chords proper will all sound at the same time.

   Incidentally, "grace notes" may - depending what "sort" they are (there was a lively discussion about this several years ago) - need to borrow time from the preceding notes rather than from the succeeding ones.  And because, I think, the apparent value of the grace note has no actual effect on the length for which it sounds you may, if things are going to sound right, have to fudge it with real but more appropriately-valued invisible notes on a separate staff layer.

   As to the dynamics, there are several ways to tackle the problem you are facing.  For example, for each dynamic in the score you can input two in the NWC File, one dynamic which is acted upon but invisible, giving you the sound level you want, immediately preceded by another dynamic which is visible (but overuled by the following dynamic, so it looks right but doesn't actually have any noticeable effect on sound volume).  The combination will thus both sound and look OK.  Moreover, in Staff Properties you can also adjust the default Volume for the entire Staff.  And using the Multi-point Controller you can at any point quite separately adjust both the Volume and Expression levels for each Staff.  Alternatively, in 2.51 et al you can of course reset the default dynamic volume values for each instrument to any figure you think is more appropriate.

   In one or more of these ways you can fix it so that the actual playing volumes are more to your liking.  And I always set the basic value (in Staff Properties) to 64 - that is, halfway along the range - so that I can then use the MPC to grow louder or softer as I wish (mind you, I'm so old-fashioned that I'm still using NWC 1.75, so unlike you I don't have hairpins to play with!).

   I hope that's helpful.

   MusicJohn, 15/Aug/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #22
The final chord ... could be improved by inserting invisible "grace note" rests in the other hand to match the grace notes in the one hand.  Then the notes of both chords proper will all sound at the same time.
As of NWC 2.51, the method you describe no longer works.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #23
As of NWC 2.51, the method you describe no longer works.

I was experimenting with Susanna's score last night, and found that if I removed the fermatas, the chord would play as intended (with the initial grace note). Of course it would no longer sustain as intended, but text object fermatas and an invisible tempo change (or something similar) could be added.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #24
That's odd, Rick.  I've just tried it, and it works for me!


Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #25
That's odd, Rick.  I've just tried it, and it works for me!

That's because you are still running 1.75. It stopped working on the newer versions.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #26
No - 2.51a, promise!

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #27
There is an old thread in which Rick gave me a solution.
As usual I can't find the thread, but the solution is as follows:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.51)
|Locale|ACP:1252
|Editor|ActiveStaff:2|CaretIndex:17|CaretPos:1
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:""|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:""|Copyright2:""
|PgSetup|StaffSize:18|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:1|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:Plain|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:11|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:9|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"MusikDingsSans"|Size:18|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.78|Top:1.78|Right:1.78|Bottom:1.78|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Right Hand"|Label:"Piano"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|WithNextStaff:Brace,ConnectBars|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Acoustic Grand Piano"|Patch:0|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|SustainPedal|Pos:-8|Wide:Y|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:75
|Text|Text:"c"|Font:User1|Pos:-8|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"c"|Font:User1|Pos:0|Wide:Y|Justify:Right
|Spacer|Width:50
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5x^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:10|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3,-1,2,6|Opts:Stem=Down
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-8|Wide:Y|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|AddStaff|Name:"Left Hand"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:2
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Acoustic Grand Piano"|Patch:0|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|SustainPedal|Pos:-8|Wide:Y
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-8|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"c"|Font:User1|Pos:6|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"c"|Font:User1|Pos:-2|Wide:Y|Justify:Right
|Spacer|Width:50
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:4^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:7^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5x^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y|Visibility:Never
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:-7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:0,4,7
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-8|Wide:Y
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #28
There is an old thread in which Rick gave me a solution.
As usual I can't find the thread
False acciaccatura
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #29
That's odd, Rick.  I've just tried it, and it works for me!


   Ah.  My mistake.  First I'd omitted to render the rests invisible, and then I'd chosen "Single Staff Prints" (rather than "Never") without thinking of the consequences!

   My apologies.

   MusicJohn, 15/Aug/14

WARNING: Potential Stupid Question Alert
Reply #30
Is there even such a thing as a "grace rest"? I mean, of course I realize you can create them in NWC, and they have useful properties (although after reading the "False acciaccatura" thread, one would say they are less useful than they used to be). What I mean is, do they show up in real scores? I've never seen one in a score (I'm not counting reduced size notes/rests for alternate melody lines and similar situations, which can currently only be created in NWC via text objects.)

Thanks,

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #31
My apologies.
Gladly accepted. It is good to put this issue to rest.

Is there even such a thing as a "grace rest"?
Maybe not, but there are "cue" rests and I suspect that someone would be unhappy if they were removed.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #32
Maybe not, but there are "cue" rests and I suspect that someone would be unhappy if they were removed.

Thank you, cue notes/rests is the term I was trying to think of, when I said "reduced size".

I've tried to use grace notes/rests as a substitute for cue notes/rests, but have had a difficult time getting them to line up with "real" notes on other staves. I should probably search the forums for "cue notes", since I suspect this has been discussed at length before.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #33
I should probably search the forums for "cue notes", since I suspect this has been discussed at length before.
It has. In: Cue notes? You no longer need to adjust the Vertical Offset. The "rest" part of a RestChord can be hidden. some day, NoteWorthy may document the "Show Rest" option on the Rest Chord tab.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-15 11:56 pm by Rick G.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #34
It has. In: Cue notes? You no longer need to adjust the Vertical Offset. The "rest" part of a RestChord can be hidden. some day, noteworthy may document the "Show Rest" option on the Rest Chord tab.

That thread was from 2008, which I assume is before the Spacer was added. And now that spacers can have .01 resolution widths, I supposed one could tweak the spaces between the notes/rests more easily than using text elements with "Preserve Width" set.

It has always bugged me that there are so many choices for noteheads (standard, X, diamond, blank, "do-re-mi", etc.) but the obvious (to me) cue noteheads are missing. (Of course, true cue notes would need to inherit the beam and stem size of their grace cousins)

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #35
there are so many choices for noteheads
Those are needed since there are so many variations on where the stem meets the notehead. NoteWorthy uses lines for stems and text for noteheads. Getting them to align is tricky.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #36
My head is spinning!  MusicJohn, thanks for the comments.  You've got my head swimming!  I printed your post so that I can study it at my leisure.  Flurmy, I don't recognize some of the objects in the segment you posted; I will try reading the code and see if I can figure it out.  Um, it seems that the objects I can't figure out are invisible muted gracenotes that don't look like gracenotes but I can't figure out how they are created.  Hey, I'm rather a neophyte to this software, so pardon my ignorance.  Anyway, thanks for all the help - so far.  Maybe I can get it figured out later.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #37
That's because you are still running 1.75. It stopped working on the newer versions.
He couldn't have played it on 1.75, because it was created in 2.51a.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #38
I'm pretty sure I got all the notation corrections done.  Will work on the other stuff later.  Time for me to get off the computer!

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #39
He couldn't have played it on 1.75, because it was created in 2.51a.

That makes sense. I guess I was thrown by this part of his earlier reply on this thread:

...
(mind you, I'm so old-fashioned that I'm still using NWC 1.75, so unlike you I don't have hairpins to play with!).

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #40
Indeed the tricks used in my example are not so trivial. (You need to be Rick to discover all of them ;-)
Anyway they are explained in the thread False acciaccatura


Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #41
Indeed the tricks used in my example are not so trivial. (You need to be Rick to discover all of them ;-)
Anyway they are explained in the thread False acciaccatura


In the wee hours of this morning, it just occurred to me what you had done there - you had make an arpeggio across 2 staves - and to think that, on two pieces that I did, I went to all the trouble of putting the arpeggios on a hidden tenor staff - and I have never before known how a tenor staff worked.  Doggedly working up and down from middle C, trying to get everything right.  Bad enough that I was unfamiliar with the tenor staff, so many notes went above and below the staff.

Yeah, it's going to be a while before I figure everything out.  I think I am going to have to print some other stuff out to study later.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #42
I have been trying to synchronize those two chords with bits and pieces of what I have been shown here, but nothing seems to work - except removing the grace note altogether.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #43
but nothing seems to work - except removing the grace note altogether.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.51)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Tempo|Tempo:60|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5x^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:-5y|Visibility:Never
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:6|Pos:9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-2,0,2,5
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Chord|Dur:64th,Grace,Slur|Pos:-11,-4
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-2,0,3,5
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #44
Just downloaded that and played it on my computer - it still plays the bass chord after the treble chord.  Could it maybe be some setting on my computer?

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #45
Just downloaded that and played it on my computer - it still plays the bass chord after the treble chord.  Could it maybe be some setting on my computer?

   Hi again, Susanna.

   Strange.  It plays OK to me.  But ... try this one - a "revised" version of Rick's - and tell us how it sounds.

   MusicJohn, 18/Aug/14

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #46
   Hi again, Susanna.

   Strange.  It plays OK to me.  But ... try this one - a "revised" version of Rick's - and tell us how it sounds.

   MusicJohn, 18/Aug/14

Now that one was really weird.  It played the treble chord first, then played all the grace notes, followed by the bass chord.

The other sample was actually like something I had already tried, without success.

Re: Note pattern throws off bar length
Reply #47
What I should have said, it seemed to play the grace notes like "regular" notes.  -  after the treble chord had sounded.