What is this?

2014-07-01 02:27 pm

What does the symbol after the first note in the upper clef mean, and how can it be reproduced?

Re: What is this?

Reply #1 – 2014-07-01 03:38 pm

That is the symbol for a turn. Because this symbol is after a note, then you half the previous note and then you have to have a sequence of four notes, the note above, the note itself, the note below, then the note itself again. Because there is a natural sign under the turn, the note below will be a natural, rather than what might be indicated by the key signature (which you don't show).

So in this case, the note before the turn would be an eighth (not a quarter) and then you would have four thirtysecond notes, assuming this is a treble clef, these would be d,c,b nat and c again (but maybe altered by the key signature).

In Noteworthy, there is not a way of inserting a symbol for a turn and expecting it to happen and so you have to write out the turn on a hidden staff. You can display the turn symbol by using one of Lawrie Pardy's fonts eg MusikDingsSans, where the characters "r" and "s" represent turns and inverted turns.

(I think I have got this all right, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I've made a boo boo).

HTH

Re: What is this?

Reply #2 – 2014-07-01 03:56 pm

I'll have to study this a while to get it figured out. The natural sign is superfluous; the piece is in the key of C, and no accidentals either in the noted measure or the previous or next. Hmm, wonder why they never taught us about that in music theory class? At least, I don't think they did. It was a looooong time ago. Like more than 55 years.

Re: What is this?

Reply #3 – 2014-07-01 04:04 pm

Where can I find Lawrie Pardy's fonts? The symbol, at least, should be visible, if someone is playing from the manuscript.

Re: What is this?

Reply #4 – 2014-07-01 04:10 pm

Lawrie's fonts :

http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Fonts

Re: What is this?

Reply #5 – 2014-07-01 04:13 pm

This may (or may not) help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_(music)#Turn

Re: What is this?

Reply #6 – 2014-07-01 05:51 pm

OK, I found it in Lawrie's fonts, but I don't know how to appropriate it. I've downloaded his fonts to my computer. (just in the zipped file).

And after carefully reading your post a couple of times, I believe that somewhere along the line, I had been "exposed" to turns.

Re: What is this?

Reply #7 – 2014-07-01 06:37 pm

I blew it big time, not that it makes a difference with the key signature, but it's in A minor, not C major. Although it varies throughout the piece (it's Für Elise).

Re: What is this?

Reply #8 – 2014-07-01 07:04 pm

Quote from: Susanna – 2014-07-01 05:51 pm

OK, I found it in Lawrie's fonts, but I don't know how to appropriate it.

Install the font as you would install any font. Then in Noteworthy, go to Page Setup / Fonts. Highlight the User1 font and click Modify.
Select the MusikDingsSans font from the drop down list (You may not be able read the title since it used characters from the font - but it will be in the list alphabetically). Change the font size to something like 14. Click OK, and click it again.
Font User 1 has now been set up as MusikDingsSans.

Now when you insert text into your music, if you change the display font to User1 and use the char map to select the character you want, one of those characters will be the turn (either R or S - I can't remember which)

Re: What is this?

Reply #9 – 2014-07-01 11:11 pm

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2014-07-01 07:04 pm

Install the font as you would install any font. Then in Noteworthy, go to Page Setup / Fonts. Highlight the User1 font and click Modify.
Select the MusikDingsSans font from the drop down list (You may not be able read the title since it used characters from the font - but it will be in the list alphabetically). Change the font size to something like 14. Click OK, and click it again.
Font User 1 has now been set up as MusikDingsSans.

Now when you insert text into your music, if you change the display font to User1 and use the char map to select the character you want, one of those characters will be the turn (either R or S - I can't remember which)

Got it! But I had to make the font much bigger - 28, I think. Thanks for your help!

I haven't yet got to the point of creating the actual articulation of the turn - still busy keying in the rest of the piece.

Re: What is this?

Reply #10 – 2014-07-02 12:25 am

Hi Susanna,
just as an FYI, the *Dings fonts are intended to be the same size as the staff metrics.

So, if your staff metrics is set to 28, then MusikDingsSans should also be 28. You can, of course, use what ever size you want, but that's how it was intended.

Re: What is this?

Reply #11 – 2014-07-02 12:54 am

Well, my staff metrics is set to 26, so that's close. I thought it looked pretty good compared to the score I'm working from. Thanks for your work in putting that together!

Got anything to represent the repeated sustained pedal? I haven't got to working on it yet - looks like a long bracket lying on its side?

Re: What is this?

Reply #12 – 2014-07-02 01:28 am

Not specifically, but there are some line and bracket drawing characters that might help...

Re: What is this?

Reply #13 – 2014-07-02 04:00 am

Quote from: Susanna – 2014-07-02 12:54 am

my staff metrics is set to 26

Try 18.

Re: What is this?

Reply #14 – 2014-07-02 02:37 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2014-07-02 01:28 am

Not specifically, but there are some line and bracket drawing characters that might help...

Thanks, I'll check 'em out! I'm finally starting to get comfortable with the software, after a lot of help from Rich Woodroffe with a couple of pieces of music.

Re: What is this?

Reply #15 – 2014-07-02 02:39 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2014-07-02 04:00 am

Try 18.

18 is too small for my old eyes! I'm satisfied with the appearance I get now.
I've got the piece all notated now, including the turn. Now I have to go back over it and insert the dynamics, which I haven't done much of.

Re: What is this?

Reply #16 – 2014-07-02 03:00 pm

Quote

18 is too small for my old eyes!

I think 18 is about the standard size for a score.

Are you talking about the printed score or the screen appearance?
That's quite different. In the latter case you can zoom at wish without any impact on the printed score.

Re: What is this?

Reply #17 – 2014-07-02 10:42 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2014-07-02 01:28 am

Not specifically, but there are some line and bracket drawing characters that might help...

I couldn't find any in your MusikDingsSans but I found I could create something with regular fonts (a straight vertical line on either side of a bunch of underscores). I had it perfect in the software, but when I looked at it in the viewer, it was all messed up. I went back to the software and fixed it so it would look OK in the print preview, but it was still messed up in the viewer. I suppose it has to do with my printer.

Anyway, I've got that particular piece completed, and I learned a lot with it!

Re: What is this?

Reply #18 – 2014-07-02 11:10 pm

Quote from: Flurmy – 2014-07-02 03:00 pm

I think 18 is about the standard size for a score.

Are you talking about the printed score or the screen appearance?
That's quite different. In the latter case you can zoom at wish without any impact on the printed score.

I printed a couple of pages, and it is very large. It seems that I once had the staff metrics set at 16. The way it appears on the screen seems inconsistent - I can build an entire piece by copying/pasting complete staves from existing files, and get different results. I did that with one that used to print very large, went to two pages - and looked large on the screen. When I did the copy/paste, it fit on one page with space left over. I didn't know for a long time what those different settings represented. I have learned more about how to use Noteworthy in the last couple of months than I had in the several years since I first bought the software.

Re: What is this?

Reply #19 – 2014-07-02 11:50 pm

The attached is an example of a turn using the Boxmark font available on Scriptorium. The # under the turn is real and necessary--the top staff is how I was taught to play it (normally hidden).

Re: What is this? (It's a Turn)

Reply #20 – 2014-07-03 12:15 am

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2014-07-01 03:38 pm

In Noteworthy, there is not a way of inserting a symbol for a turn and expecting it to happen and so you have to write out the turn on a hidden staff. You can display the turn symbol by using one of Lawrie Pardy's fonts eg MusikDingsSans, where the characters "r" and "s" represent turns and inverted turns.

Quote from: Warren Porter – 2014-07-02 11:50 pm