Hiding Hairpins

Topic: Hiding Hairpins (Read 11166 times) previous topic - next topic

Hiding Hairpins

2012-03-21 12:09 pm

Perhaps I am the only one who is bothered by this, but if dynamics are hidden ("Visibility Never") in a score, why are the ensuing hairpins visible?

See the attached sample. The dynamics (mf, f) are not visible in the lower staff, but the hairpins are visible. Seems to me if the dynamics are not visible, the hairpins should not be visible.

In the case of the attached sample, seeing the hairpins in the lower staff is not necessary (or wanted).

Perhaps the hairpins could take on the visibility of the preceeding dynamic.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #1 – 2012-03-21 12:12 pm

If you don't want to show the hairpin then replace it with a hidden cresc.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #2 – 2012-03-21 12:29 pm

Also, the vertical placement of the hairpins is tied to the "POS" of the preceding dynamic. Having the hairpin remain visible while the preceding dynamic is hidden is a useful tool to use for managing hairpin vertical placement.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #3 – 2012-03-21 01:39 pm

Peter: Good suggestion.

Lawry: True, useful IF you want the hairpin shown.

Thank you gents for your comments.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #4 – 2012-03-23 02:31 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2012-03-21 12:29 pm

Having the hairpin remain visible while the preceding dynamic is hidden is a useful tool to use for managing hairpin vertical placement.

For me, please replace "useful" with "Absolutely essential"

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #5 – 2012-03-23 04:35 pm

In the absence of an alternate method to set the vertical placement of hairpins, I concur wholeheartedly with Haymo.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #6 – 2012-03-23 08:21 pm

I concur with Haymo too.

~~I scratched my head over why one would use a hairpin that shouldn't be visible. I guess one might want it just for playback, and might not want to use the dynamic variance commands.~~ Thanks to Jim, I don't need to scratch any longer...

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #7 – 2012-03-23 09:04 pm

For piano and organ music on 2 or 3 staves, you don't want to clutter the score with 3 hairpins for the same dynamic marking ( one on each staff). Jim

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #8 – 2012-03-23 11:49 pm

That's when you use cresc. or decresc. and hide it. Does the same thing as a hairpin.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #9 – 2012-03-24 12:11 am

Thanks for the tip, Bill. Without knowing what the programming effort would be, I guess we could chalk this one up to "would be nice".

I kinda' like the ease-of-use of the hairpin tool as opposed to insert > dynamic variance > select variance type > visibility > never > position, etc., and would love to be able to right click on the haipin, choose visibility > never and just keep going.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #10 – 2012-03-24 08:07 am

Nice, fresh suggestion.
I like it.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #11 – 2012-03-24 08:39 am

For a hidden hairpin/cresc/dim, just paste this in where you want the variance to begin:

Quote

|Note|Dur:Half,Grace|Pos:-6|Opts:Crescendo,NoLegerLines,Muted|Visibility:Never

You may need to shift the note up/down in the unlikely event that it intercepts a tie. A grace rest won't usually work as it may delay the onset of the next note by a 32nd. This is too simple to even deserve a User Tool.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #12 – 2012-03-24 09:37 am

Quote from: Rick G. – 2012-03-24 08:39 am

For a hidden hairpin/cresc/dim, just paste this in where you want the variance to begin:You may need to shift the note up/down in the unlikely event that it intercepts a tie. A grace rest won't usually work as it may delay the onset of the next note by a 32nd. This is too simple to even deserve a User Tool.

Quote

I kinda' like the ease-of-use of the hairpin tool as opposed to insert > dynamic variance > select variance type > visibility > never > position, etc., and would love to be able to right click on the haipin, choose visibility > never and just keep going.

Hmm, you could put an invisible dynamic in front of the hairpin, and set its vertical position to 100 or -100 if the active system is close enough to the top or bottom margin. This moves the hairpin beyond the page boundaries so it won't print. That's just about as easy as your idea.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #13 – 2012-03-24 09:52 am

I missed your point that the invisible grace note with its one notehead wide hairpin is just the start of a crescendo which will carry on until the next dynamic is encountered. Thanks.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #14 – 2012-03-24 07:12 pm

Thanks, Rick. I am starting a text file to store little NWC tricks like this to quickly copy/paste from.

I keep similar files on my desktop at work to copy/paste things like long directory paths and command strings at the command line (whether unix or Windows CMD) to save time and typos...

Jim

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #15 – 2012-04-03 08:39 pm

So, I guess having the hairpin assume the characteristics of the preceding dynamic is out of the question, but without a good reason. jim_jr has it right (too many "clicks" to accomplish something so simple).

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #16 – 2012-04-03 11:58 pm

Quote from: debaumann – 2012-04-03 08:39 pm

So, I guess having the hairpin assume the characteristics of the preceding dynamic is out of the question, but without a good reason.

I think being able to adjust the height of a hairpin seperately from the height of the most recent visible dynamic on its staff is a pretty good reason. If there was another way to adjust hairpin height, I would concur. But there isn't, and isn't likely to be soon. Hairpins, like slurs and ties, are drawn dynamically rather than placed as predrawn objects. Position and visibility are both handled differently for dynamically drawn graphics than they are for predrawn objects. This is not the simple change that some seem to think it is.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #17 – 2012-04-04 01:56 am

I rather thought this would not be a trivial bit of programming, but pasting the single line of text that Rick provided is easy enough.

I still think this is the best and most flexible notation application out there. I've been able to create marching band charts, free meter chant based organ music, choral music, rehearsal CDs for my church choir, generate midi files to run through sound fonts for more realistic sound files and so much more. And all for $40!

And the support of this forum is invaluable. Tips & Tricks, learning to work with User Tools, being able to ask questions and get answers from around the world. Way cool.

Now I'm working keying in old photocopies and handwritten music from 30 years ago before they completely disintegrate. Thanks!

Jim

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #18 – 2012-04-07 10:58 am

Quote from: jim_jr – 2012-04-04 01:56 am

...Now I'm working keying in old photocopies and handwritten music from 30 years ago before they completely disintegrate. Thanks!
...

If you have a lot of old charts to notate, if the old photocopies are clear enough you might try scanning them in with Sharpeye.
http://www.visiv.co.uk/index.htm

If the notes in the handwritten charts are high quality they may also be clear enough for Sharpeye's optical character recognition, too.

Sharpeye generates a lot of errors, but it still can save a lot of time. The result can be exported to MusicXML which can be imported to NWC for editing. Jobs that used to take me about 30 hours were reduced to between 10 and 15 hours using Sharpeye to get the raw notation into NWC.

Re: Hiding Hairpins

Reply #19 – 2012-04-07 01:03 pm

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2012-04-07 10:58 am

If the notes in the handwritten charts are high quality they may also be clear enough for Sharpeye's optical character recognition, too.

While I agree with most of the other remarks in the previous reply,
as a regular Sharpeye user,
I would not pin much hope on the above remark.
In my experience, the hand written music would have to be of EXCEPTIONALLY high quality, before Sharpeye recognises anything more than barlines.