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Topic: Hairpin horizontal placement (Read 7370 times) previous topic - next topic

Hairpin horizontal placement

Is there a way to start a hairpin in the middle of a note.  Say, for example, one voice has a whole note while other voices have four quarter notes, and I want to start all of the voices doing a diminuendo together on beat 3.  Can that be done? 

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #1 –
Yes, if you enable 'Change Channel Volume' in your Insert Dynamic Commands
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:6
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Tenuto|Pos:10|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Opts:Volume=127|Pos:-12
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:1^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo
|Dynamic|Style:f|Opts:Volume=60|Pos:-12|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-4,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Edit: changed clip
Registered user since 1996

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #2 –
I'm not yet fully fluent in text notation.  However, doesn't "Change Channel Volume" apply to the entire note?  I am looking for a hairpin that starts in the middle of a whole note, not a volume change that takes place during the entire whole note note.  Since hairpins apply to notes, I don't see how to apply a hairpin to part of a note.

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #3 –
Quote from: smoore33 –
doesn't "Change Channel Volume" apply to the entire note?
No. Note velocity applies to the entire note, since once it is struck, it can't be "unstruck". 
Quote from: smoore33 –
Since hairpins apply to notes, I don't see how to apply a hairpin to part of a note.
Hairpins commence at the time offset at which they are placed. They continue to the next dynamic. If these dynamics have 'Change Channel Volume' set, the volume will ramp between their differences. If the dynamics change the Note Velocity, it will be ramped as well. But note velocity applies to the entire note. (see above)

The sample file: voltest.nwc, may be of help.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #4 –
Smoore, in case you're asking about appearance rather than playback, if you just want to print the hairpin starting partway through the whole note, try using layered staffs.

The staff with your whole note is notated normally - your bar has a single whole note - without the hairpin.

The second staff has, say, four quarter notes at the same pitch as the first staff's note.  Use the blank notehead and override the stem lengths to zero (Control-E for note properties).  Mute these notes but start your hairpin with the third quarter note.  You won't hear the change because the notes are muted, but you're after looks, not sound.

When you layer the staffs, the whole note will display but it will have a hairpin beginning halfway through the bar.  Presumably this will line up with the hairpins in the other staffs in your score.

Try it:
Staff 1  
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Staff 2 to be layered with next staff:
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:3
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Staff 3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1z|Opts:StemLength=0,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1z|Opts:StemLength=0,Muted
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1z|Opts:Diminuendo,StemLength=0,Muted
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #5 –
You can achieve it more easily with a restchord, then a muted stemless headless note with the hairpin attached.

I tried it with a hidden rest but this also hides the hairpin – not what I expected! Would it not be more useful to display the hairpin? After all you don't need to put it there if you don't want to see it (a hiddendim would achieve the same playback effect).

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #6 –
Quote
You can achieve it more easily with a restchord,

I guess this might be true if you're comfortable with restchords, but wouldn't you have to do a vertical offset to hide the rest in the chord?  I may be misunderstanding your suggestion, so Peter, would you mind creating it and copying the clip into the forum, please? 

I think the key is that we only want to display the unaltered whole note with a hairpin that starts halfway through its duration.  We don't want to see the workaround notes.

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #8 –
David, there's an option to hide the rest inj note properties.

Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Dynamic|Style:p|Pos:9
|RestChord|Dur:Half|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0z|Opts:Stem=Down,Crescendo,StemLength=0,Muted
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:9
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #9 –
Thanks all.

Rick G., what I meant by Change Channel Volume applying to the whole note, was the same as your statement "Hairpins commence at the time offset at which they are placed."  I would like it to commence in the middle of a whole note (ideally, both visually and musically).  Thanks for the sample at Topic 7738 rg01.nwc.  Perhaps I should clarify that I am working with choral music, with one part per staff, and thus I believe the hairpin in the example would not appear in the staff with the whole note in it.

I appreciate the other proposed solutions, although they seem very cumbersome.  I'll have to experiment with them sometime when I have enough time to get into it that deeply.

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #10 –
Layering only seems cumbersome until you start to use it regularly. Then you begin to appreciate the subtle adjustments it allows you to make in the appearance of the score.

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #11 –
Rick has dealt with the visual aspect of (one sample) of what you may want to do.
Musically, my guess is, if you want to do a dim. on a single, held note:

Use a hidden, playing staff, write your note as tied, two halves -
and apply an mpc to the second half to obtain the diminuendo which you are looking for.

Note: You'll have to ask somebody else how to do it,
         I can only point you at the tool which I think can do the job for you.

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Haymo –
Rick has dealt with the visual aspect of (one sample) of what you may want to do.
It also deals with the audio aspect.

If I wanted to achieve just the audio effect, I might use:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:10
|MPC|Controller:exp|Style:Absolute|TimeRes:Quarter|SweepRes:5|Pt1:0,64|Pos:7
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar
|MPC|Controller:exp|Style:Linear Sweep|TimeRes:Quarter|SweepRes:4|Pt1:2,64|Pt2:2,32|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1
|MPC|Controller:exp|Style:Absolute|TimeRes:Quarter|SweepRes:5|Pt1:0,64|Pos:7
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
But the original question was about how to get a hairpin to start all of the voices doing a Diminuendo together on beat 3
Since a hairpin can only affect one MIDI Channel, all voices to be affected must use that channel.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Hairpin horizontal placement

Reply #13 –
Quote
... there's an option to hide the rest inj note properties. 

Thanks, Peter!