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Boxmarks Questions

A couple of questions about using the fonts:  Boxmarks and Boxmark2.

   ...  The Scriptorium shows Boxmark2 is still a Beta release.  Are there any further developments pending (especially any that would change existing character allocations)?

   ...  Mostly addressed to Eric:  Any chance of getting Boxmark2 (or Boxmarks) included with the NWC package?

If I understand it properly (maybe don't), in order to use Boxmark2 (or Boxmarks) it's an extra step for NWC or NW Viewer users to go to a second web site.  They can't have either font as part of the download/install from the NoteWorthy home site. 

So somewhere in the NWC music file, say in the Info field, a note needs to included -- go get a separate file, from a separate web site, and know how to install a TTF file.  Otherwise you'll have some strange-looking characters in your music score.

That seems like a lot of overhead, when you've got to get the score to multiple readers.

Couldn't/shouldn't either of those fonts be included in the NWC distribution?

Please forgive me if one or the other is already there included with NWC --  I don't recall when I installed them, perhaps years ago.

Many thanks for ideas,

Joe

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #1 –
Joe

Lawrie's Dings font suites (also available from the Scriptorium) do everything that Boxmarks did and more !

Lawrie's fonts are now included with the NoteWorthy distribution.

http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Fonts
Rich.

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #2 –
MusikDingsSans.ttf is the closest replacement for Boxmark2.ttf
Registered user since 1996

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
Joe

Lawrie's Dings font suites (also available from the Scriptorium) do everything that Boxmarks did and more !

Lawrie's fonts are now included with the NoteWorthy distribution.

 

Sorry, I'm getting lost ...

That link lists five "Dings"-based fonts:

   ...  NWC2HiVisLP.ttf  ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf ..."
   ...  SwingDings
   ...  MusikDingsSerif
   ...  MusikDingsSans
   ...  ChordFontsDoSiGermanic March 2009 ... "A new supplement to the Dings font suites ..."

Are they _all_ included in the NoteWorthy distribution?

Not knowing any better way, definitely I don't want to remove the current NWC installation and then install a fresh new one, just so to find out what fonts are included.

- - -

Where is there a definitive list of fonts included with today's NWC distribution?

Is that same fonts package also included with the NoteWorthy Viewer distribution?


All I need to do is show a simple piano arpeggio in the score, e.g. as in Boxmarks or Boxmark2.

What must I tell the NoteWorthy Viewer user  --  musical, but non-techie  --  to do, to be able to see it?


Joe





Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #4 –
G'day Joe,
when you load the NWC2 CD there is a link to load the "PardyPack" (I don't remember exactly how it's worded but the word pardypack is part of it).  This is an optional install to add my font suites to your machine.  It runs an executable that does the job.

The executables are also available separately here:
http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/uc/pardypack/
look to the bottom of the page.  There is an installer and an uninstaller.  Perhaps you could include the installer, or a link to it, in your file distribution.

Fonts included are:
...  NWC2HiVisLP.ttf  ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf ..."
...  SwingDings
...  MusikDingsSerif
and
...  MusikDingsSans

ChordFontsDoSiGermanic March 2009 ... "A new supplement to the Dings font suites ..." is a supplement I created in 2009 to allow for added DoSi style (Do Re Me Fa Sol La Si) and Germanic style (H for "B" and B for "Bb") chord markings.  It is doubtful you will need these so there's no need to worry about them.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –

(snip for brevity, please see Lawrie's original message)

Fonts included are:
...  NWC2HiVisLP.ttf  ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf ..."
...  SwingDings
...  MusikDingsSerif
and
...  MusikDingsSans

Please forgive me if this sounds like I'm pushing too hard on it  --  but really am not meaning to do so. 

Maybe I'm just clueless, but the ambiguity here:

   ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf"  --  what does that mean?  There isn't a "NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf" font in the above list.  Or is it the same thing as the "MusikDingsSans" (without the "NWC2" in the name)?

OK, I'll stop using "Boxmark2" as a required font (currently set as User1 in the NWC scores).  Instead I'll use one of the above.

   ...  But which one?

I've got to tell NW Viewer users what to do  --  Keep It Simple, they are not technical folks  -- so they can see choral and piano scores with piano arpeggios (the wiggly vertical lines) in them.

So I'll tell them to go to the NWC site, download and install the Viewer; then at that same site go to the /uc/pardypack page, download and install the PardyPack.

Some of them will become candidates for the NW Composer.  But it's got to be Keep It Simple now for starting with the Viewer.

   ...  If the fonts are important enough to be 'supported' by NoteWorthy, then why cannot they be included in the EXE installs for both the Viewer and Composer?

   ...  Symbols like arpeggio, tremolo (on stems), glissando, portamento, turn, up/down bow, and the like aren't exactly exotic.  Why aren't they simply included in the NW Composer and Viewer installer executables?

- - -

Until then, bottom line:  Of the pardypack fonts, is there a preferred one for simple piano arpeggios -- or should I experiment with them?  And will the fonts themselves or their support as something outside to the NWC distributable be dropped or changed?

Again, I apologize if this sounds more like frustration at seeming complexity toward non-technical users, rather than sounding like just simple cluelessness here.

Joe




Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #6 –
Joe, if it helps any, Lawrie's fonts and Boxmarks 2 are compatible: that is, if you have created an arpeggio using Boxmarks as the User 1 font, it will still be an arpeggio if you switch User 1 to MusicDingsSans. And yes, Lawrie simply left the extension (the .ttf) off the font names when he listed them.

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #7 –
Thank you, William -- that's reassuring.

But  _which_  font, of the four listed, follows the same character allocations as Boxmarks/Boxmark2?

I'm still perplexed.  Forgive me if I'm dense.

In the list of fonts given above:

>
> Fonts included are:
> ...  NWC2HiVisLP.ttf  ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf ..."
> ...  SwingDings
> ...  MusikDingsSerif
> and
> ...  MusikDingsSans

What does "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf" mean, relative to that list of four fonts?

   ...  Is it "based on" the "MusikDingsSans" font in that list above?  (There's no "NWC2" in that font's filename.) 

   ...  Or is there yet another font called "NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf" somewhere?

Same question, different wording:   Is one file named "NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf", and a separate file named "MusikDingsSans.ttf"?

- - -

Another bottom line  --  I want to specify a font as "User1" that will show notation symbols (like piano arpeggio) in a 'standard-appearing' choral/piano score, and that will also be easily found, downloaded, and installed by multiple non-techie Viewer users.

And again the question ... if those fonts are supported at the NWC site, and the symbols they contain are standard and widely used, then  _why_  aren't they simply included in the NW Composer and Viewer installs?  Why do we need to tell a choir member  --  non-techie  --  to find two files, in two parts of the NoteWorthy site, and download and install them separately?

I can guarantee you that out of a dozen installs, one member will complain about an unreadable score with all those "funny marks" in it.

Eric?  Why not just bundle them?

Whew ...  that's a lot of lines for a bottom line.  Many thanks for patience.

Joe

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #8 –
G'day Joe,

Quote from: Joseph Roberts –
Please forgive me if this sounds like I'm pushing too hard on it  --  but really am not meaning to do so.  

Maybe I'm just clueless, but the ambiguity here:

   ... "based on NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf"  --  what does that mean?  There isn't a "NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf" font in the above list.  Or is it the same thing as the "MusikDingsSans" (without the "NWC2" in the name)?

SwingDings, MusikDingsSans and MusikDingsSerif are font suites.  Each contain a replacement system font (NWC2SwingDings.ttf &etc.), a symbols font a la Boxmark2 (SwingDings.ttf etc. - this is the font the suites take their name from), 2 text fonts (SwingText.ttf and SwingTextEuro.ttf etc.), and a text chord font (SwingChord.ttf etc.)

They are designed as a complete system so that you can have matching text, music typeface, symbols and chord markings.

NWC2HiVisLP.ttf is a special case that arose because a user several years ago was having trouble creating music for her vision impaired husband to read.  She wanted round noteheads, I accommodated.  As MusikDingsSans seemed to be the most clearly defined typeface I had, I based it on that suite so that it would still have a set of matching support fonts.

Quote
OK, I'll stop using "Boxmark2" as a required font (currently set as User1 in the NWC scores).  Instead I'll use one of the above.

   ...  But which one?

I've got to tell NW Viewer users what to do  --  Keep It Simple, they are not technical folks  -- so they can see choral and piano scores with piano arpeggios (the wiggly vertical lines) in them.

So I'll tell them to go to the NWC site, download and install the Viewer; then at that same site go to the /uc/pardypack page, download and install the PardyPack.

This seems the easiest approach.  If you distribute via email perhaps you can include the relevant links.

Quote
Some of them will become candidates for the NW Composer.  But it's got to be Keep It Simple now for starting with the Viewer.

   ...  If the fonts are important enough to be 'supported' by NoteWorthy, then why cannot they be included in the EXE installs for both the Viewer and Composer?

   ...  Symbols like arpeggio, tremolo (on stems), glissando, portamento, turn, up/down bow, and the like aren't exactly exotic.  Why aren't they simply included in the NW Composer and Viewer installer executables?

Umm, actually NWC don't "support" the fonts because, as they are my creation, that's my job.  Eric generously made tham available as part of the CD distribution and on the website in the executable because they had proven to be far more popular than I had ever imagined.  All I originally wanted was a nice "Jazzy" handwritten style font for my personal transcriptions (SwingDings).  It worked so well I decided to share it, and since I now had a foundation to build from I created the other two suites, just "because I could".

It was a fun exercise but took a lot of my "spare" time.  There have been updates in beta form for the upcoming 2.5 release.  These are backward compatible (they only affect the NWC system font as it has additional symbols)

Quote
Until then, bottom line:  Of the pardypack fonts, is there a preferred one for simple piano arpeggios -- or should I experiment with them?  And will the fonts themselves or their support as something outside to the NWC distributable be dropped or changed?

All of the suites contain identical characters in identical locations - they are completely interchangeable with each other.  Choose the one that has the appearance that appeals to you most.  

The title font of eace suite (SwingDings.ttf et al) are all roughly based on Boxmark2.  If Boxmark2 has a character, then my font has it in the same place.  However, there are a couple of refinements for better positioning and ability to overlap than Boxmark2 so if you happen to be using one of these 2 or 3 characters (I forget which ones they are) then you may need to reposition them.  The Arpeggio symbol is one, BUT the correction made was for overlap to facilitate extending the symbol, positioning was unchanged.

Support for these fonts will continue into the forseeable future.  I have no intention of discontinuing their availability nor their updates. The first beta of SwingDings was released in December of 2005, a Christmas pressie for everyone :), I had already been working on it for around 6 months by then.

Hopefully this has clarified things for you.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #9 –
G'day again Joe,
just to try to further clarify things.  There are 3 font suites:
  • SwingDings - which contains
    • NWC2SwingDings.ttf - Notation Typeface
    • SwingDings.ttf - extended replacement for Boxmark2
    • SwingText.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters
    • SwingTextEuro.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters AND alternative European characters
    • SwingChord.ttf - a text chord font to be used for chord markings
  • MusikDingsSans - which contains
    • NWC2MusikDingsSans.ttf - Notation Typeface
    • MusikDingsSans.ttf - extended replacement for Boxmark2
    • MusikTextSans.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters
    • MusikTextEuroSans.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters AND alternative European characters
    • MusikChordSans.ttf - a text chord font to be used for chord markings
  • MusikDingsSerif - which contains
    • NWC2MusikDingsSerif.ttf - Notation Typeface
    • MusikDingsSerif.ttf - extended replacement for Boxmark2
    • MusikTextSerif.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters
    • MusikTextEuroSerif.ttf - a text font with some line drawing characters AND alternative European characters
    • MusikChordSerif.ttf - a text chord font to be used for chord markings

In each case the *Dings.ttf font is the Boxmark2 replacement.  The other fonts are for typeface consistency for any text and staff elements in the score.  For examples of how this works please see:
http://zoundz.pardyline.com.au
and check the sample charts.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #10 –
Thank you, Lawrie. 

That clears it perfectly now.  I'll recommend downloading and installing the 'pardypack' and will use "MusikDingsSans.ttf" now in scores instead of Boxmark2.

Last question (I hope) about the pardypack:  

   ...  You showed the direct URL for the pardypack in an earlier message here in the forum.

   ...  How can someone navigate to it from the NWC home's Site Map?

Again, pardon me if I'm dense but I couldn't find it on the Site Map nor through a search.

Cheers,

Joe



Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Joseph Roberts –
 ...  How can someone navigate to it from the NWC home's Site Map?
Home->Support->FAQ->Printing->How do I change the size of the printed staff?
will get you to a page with a link to: Lawrie Pardy's Font Pack for NoteWorthy Composer

Hardly ideal :(
Registered user since 1996

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Joseph Roberts –
Thank you, Lawrie. 

That clears it perfectly now.  I'll recommend downloading and installing the 'pardypack' and will use "MusikDingsSans.ttf" now in scores instead of Boxmark2.

Last question (I hope) about the pardypack:   

   ...  You showed the direct URL for the pardypack in an earlier message here in the forum.

   ...  How can someone navigate to it from the NWC home's Site Map?

Again, pardon me if I'm dense but I couldn't find it on the Site Map nor through a search.

My pleasure Joe.  Actually, despite Rick's preference, if you are using the standard notation typeface (NWC2STDA.ttf) and Times New Roman for text (again the default selection) the you might find "MusikDingsSerif.ttf" to be more consistent with the appearance of the rest of the staff elements - anyhow, try it and see.

As for the direct url to the "pardypack", Rick is correct.  It is not ideally linked to.  I can only ever find it if I do a search for "pardypack" from the Noteworthy software main site front page.

Rick has suggested that he might update his "useful links" in Tips & Tricks.  I've suggested that this is a good idea...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #13 –
One hopes that Eric has noted this thread.

Again:

   ...  Notation symbols like arpeggio, stem tremolo, glissando, portamento, turn, up_bow, down_bow, and the like aren't rare or exotic.  They're standard.

   ...  Why bury them into an optional download action and executable that's hidden from the main NoteWorthy home page and search field?  Where they can only be found if a new user _already_ knows of the existence of the term "pardypack" in advance?  C'mon.

   ...  Why aren't those common notation symbols, i.e. the "pardypack" font suite, simply included in the NW Composer and Viewer installer executables?

Eric?

- -

Joe

Re: Boxmarks Questions

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
No preference. Boxmarks2 is sans serif.
Well whaddya know...  It's that long since I used it that I'd completely forgotten that. :)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.