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Topic: Tie Error? (Read 11830 times) previous topic - next topic

Tie Error?

Quote from: "Bar 164 - 167"
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:Half
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-15^,-14^,-13^,-12^,-11^,-10^,-9^,-8^,-7^,-6^,-5^,-4^,-3^,-2^,-1^,0^,1^,2^,3^,4^,5^,6^
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-15^,-14^,-13^,-12^,-11^,-10^,-9^,-8^,-7^,-6^,-5^,-4^,-3^,-2^,-1^,0^,1^,2^,3^,4^,5^,6^
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-15,-14,-13,-12,-11,-10,-9,-8,-7,-6,-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End


The whole file is attached - at bar 164-167, You can see that some ties don't work properly.
If you play that template, the sound is odd.

But if viewed with NWC1.xx, it works properly.


p.s. I don't know that this song is. Can you tell me the title?
NWC User since 2008

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #1 –
Confirmed. Can't help with the song's name.
The universe of music with more than 16 ties in a chord on one staff is not large.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #2 –
Certainly one for NoteWorthy support.
As you say, if exported to 1.75 the ties are ok.
Pick up that exported file with version 2 and they are wrong.

Can't help with the music either but i quite like it.
Rich.

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #3 –
Quote
The universe of music with more than 16 ties in a chord on one staff is not large.

A pianist with more than ten fingers is even rarer!

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Barry Graham –
A pianist with more than ten fingers is even rarer!

There's 22 notes tied.
I know this sheet is known that it can't be played by common people.
I can't recollect this song's title.
NWC User since 2008

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #6 –
How big! :)
NWC User since 2008

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #7 –
NWC 2 maintains up to 16 concurrent note ties. The problems that you see are caused by having more than 16 simultaneous ties.

When we changed to the new tie handling scheme back in NWC 2, this was one area of special concern. In the end, I really thought that 16 simultaneous ties should be more than enough.
 
Quote from: Rick G. –
The universe of music with more than 16 ties in a chord on one staff is not large.

Apparently, the universe has at least one piece of music that requires more than 16 ties be maintained. We will review this and consider changes for the next release.

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #8 –
Uh, in fact, this sheet is not original sheet - It has changed much.
The original midi plays all the keys. (NWC can't play all of them - so it was arranged)

Then, I think that the way how to tie all the notes is layering, right?
NWC User since 2008

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #9 –
A trick to get the audio right without all those ties would be to mute all those whole note stacks, and hide a pedal down right before the half note stacks (and a pedal up after the second whole note stacks).  To get a cleaner simulation of the visual, you could try just adding a tie to the top note of each stack (or just a slur over them, except that I don't know how to keep NWC from joining 2 adjacent slurs into 1).

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #10 –
In case anyone's wondering how those chords could be played at all, they would probably be forearm clusters with both arms. In other words, just hit the keyboard with the side of your forearm, elbow to fist. With a cluster like that, you don't have to hit the notes exactly - the general range is really all that's expected.

I don't know the piece either, but it's certainly attractive.

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #12 –
In the next release of NWC, we plan to bump the maximum number of simultaneous note ties to 24. If you ever need to go beyond this limit, layering would be required.

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #13 –
Rick - I enjoyed reading about the tone clusters - now I know what to call the beasts I run into in handbells - e.g. check out the last chord of the attached simple kids' handbell arrangement - Randy

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
e.g. check out the last chord of the attached simple kids' handbell arrangement
Not quite a true cluster, but close. Nice looking printout. The femata on the last bass note looks better if it is centered. IMO, 'Center At next Note/Bar' should be the default for fermatas. I have been unable to find any examples where a different Justification:/Placement: combination yields a superior result.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #15 –
Quote
Not quite a true cluster, but close.

Rats.  I thought 5 out of 6 consecutive notes would qualify.  :-)

Quote
The femata on the last bass note looks better if it is centered.

I usually do center them!  This was about the first handbell song I entered, so perhaps I hadn't standardized that yet.  Or more likely, I think I tried left/center/right on the treble fermata, trying to get it to "center" over the very top note, but the "stacked" chord apparently made it such that all 3 alignments were identical, centering over the stem!  I suspect I gave up, leaving it at "left" (since it didn't matter), but then blindly copied that fermata to the bass clef.  I actually like a "right" justify in the bass clef better in this case, to align that fermata over the stem like the treble clef is forced to be.  But center is good too.  And left is definitely no good.

Other thought: How to play all the keys

Reply #16 –
I found the original song : <Here>.

In the latter part if the video file, you can see all keys played.
(So there's a rumor that a person who playes this song is supposed to have his finger severed!)

How it is written musically?
NWC User since 2008

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #17 –
Quote
'Center At next Note/Bar' should be the default for fermatas

I agree. I was always surprised by not finding it so.

Re: Other thought: How to play all the keys

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Yoon-ei Kim (Sesirine) –
In the latter part if the video file, you can see all keys played.
How it is written musically?
I can't get the video to play, but if it is a full piano white key cluster, the attachment should convey it.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #19 –
It's facinating watching the video - but disappointing because I was hoping to see someone attempting to play it.

It's clear from the video that your NWC file is very much a reduction of the score shown.
I doubt if any one person can play that although if they have one of those wood extensions of their hands, I suppose they might get near.

I don't think NWC could cope with the notation as in the video. Well, I'll qualify that - most home base music reproduction systems would have trouble. But OTOH, who would notice the drop outs ?

If you find out any more about it, please let us know.
Rich.

Re: Tie Error?

Reply #20 –
A minor file cleanup suggestion:  While editing your NWC file, you may want to do an Edit/Find/Find-by-category/Unassigned-octave-accidentals.  There is 1 place in the treble clef, and multiple places in the bass clef, where a note accidental status is "ambiguous" - NWC will play it one way, but a musician would probably play it another.  For each such note, you might want to explicitly assign an accidental, whether it's right in NWC playback and wrong for a musician, or vice versa.  For example, take the last note in measure 123 of the bass clef - NWC is playing that as natural, due to no accidental being assigned, and due to the last A seen (in any octave) being assigned a natural.  Maybe you wanted this, but in that case, a natural accidental on the last A too would make it clearer.