NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Topic: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16 (Read 256538 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 13

Reply #100 – 2010-01-16 04:45 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2010-01-16 07:42 am

Neither represent a change from NWC 2.0

So they don't, but you could at least agree that there's something wrong which could easily be fixed.

Why these are treated differently is beyond me

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:1,2
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #101 – 2010-01-16 05:36 pm

Good addition, Eric. I've often wished for next file and previous file buttons for the button bars; the new document selection buttons are better than that. In my limited tests so far, they've worked perfectly. Was the open new file button down there in previous betas? I don't recall it, but I sure like having it next to the document selection buttons. Perfect for when I think I've opened something that I actually haven't.

....and while you're adding things to the status bar: how about putting the the current insertion point location (measure number) down there on the right, along with the active staff name? That's been on the wish list for a long time.....

Cheers,

Bill

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #102 – 2010-01-17 02:20 am

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2010-01-16 05:36 pm

....and while you're adding things to the status bar: how about putting the the current insertion point location (measure number) down there on the right, along with the active staff name? That's been on the wish list for a long time.....

This multiple document selector addition to the status bar is a very useful one. May I add a request for a "Save As" button - not necessarily a default, but one that could be added to a custom toolbar. Also a "Close" button that could be added to a custom toolbar.

mod

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 13

Reply #103 – 2010-01-17 04:00 am

Quote from: Peter Edwards – 2010-01-16 04:45 pm

Why these are treated differently is beyond me

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 13

Reply #104 – 2010-01-17 05:12 am

Quote from: mod – 2010-01-17 04:00 am

This clip is from Beta 14.

and is a bug

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #105 – 2010-01-17 05:32 am

I concur

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #106 – 2010-01-19 01:10 am

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0,1,1|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

How about this?

<Image Link>

This clip's from beta 14, too.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #107 – 2010-01-19 01:22 am

Quote from: Sesirine – 2010-01-19 01:10 am

How about this?

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #108 – 2010-01-19 01:37 am

The notes can be made using chord members.

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

This clip will be pasted correctly.
Next, select 'Stem Up' and put the cursor on pos 1.
Then "Ctrl+Enter"(Chord Member) it.

The notes are seen:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0,1,1|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

I found that my clip got an invalid text, so try this one.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #109 – 2010-01-19 01:45 am

I'd say it's a bug. It will export to nwctxt but will not import.

KeyStroke sequence to produce it is: "0{enter}{up}^{enter}+{up}^{enter}"

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #110 – 2010-01-19 04:10 am

I concur

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 14

Reply #111 – 2010-01-19 07:50 am

There is also:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0,1,1,2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

<Image Link>

I think that it shouldn't be possible to make.

NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 15

Reply #112 – 2010-01-19 02:37 pm

Beta 15 was pulled shortly after release. See the Beta 16 announcement.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 15

Reply #113 – 2010-01-19 03:11 pm

Quote from: NoteWorthy Online – 2010-01-19 02:37 pm

Beta 15 is now available from the start of this topic. It includes the following fixes and enhancements:

I see it like this :

Fix whole bar/measure detection and conversion during MIDI import

Agreed -now imports correctly

Improve duplicate item detection in MIDI import

Not tested

Improve dot placement for some split stem chords

Agreed - however, I still believe there maybe room for improvement here :

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:1,2|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2,3
|Chord|Dur:4th,DblDotted|Pos:1,2|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,DblDotted|Pos2:2,3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Fix chord member add where new note conflicts with existing note

Agreed

Improve slur position to better align with target note position or stem

Agreed

When exporting percussion clef to 1.75 format, bass clef should be used

Not Tested

Play highlights should work even when noteheads have their own assigned color

Agreed - although there is still a difference for beamed and unbeamed notes. For unbeamed notes - the tails highlight, for beamed notes, they dont.
(Although I'm not quite sure how I would treat the beams as opposed to the stems)

Use yet another alternate method for bar line drawing for Windows 95/98/Me systems.

Not tested

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 15

Reply #114 – 2010-01-19 03:17 pm

I just experienced a bad crash with Beta 15, so it has been pulled until that issue can be resolved.

With regard to your example dotted split stem chord, that probably is not going to change. Same for the note highlighting.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 15

Reply #115 – 2010-01-19 03:25 pm

OK - thanks for the info. Good luck in resolving the reasons for the crash.

NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #116 – 2010-01-19 03:42 pm

Beta 16 is now available from the start of this topic. It includes the following fixes and enhancements:

Fix whole bar/measure detection and conversion during MIDI import
Improve duplicate item detection in MIDI import
Improve dot placement for some split stem chords
Fix chord member add where new note conflicts with existing note
Improve slur position to better align with target note position or stem
When exporting percussion clef to 1.75 format, bass clef should be used
Play highlights should work even when noteheads have their own assigned color
Use yet another alternate method for bar line drawing for Windows 95/98/Me systems.

An optional registry override is supported from registry value:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\NoteWorthy Software\NoteWorthy Composer 2\Options\BarLineDrawType

Supported values are:
0 -- use XP method
1 -- Win95 method

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #117 – 2010-01-19 05:44 pm

Hi Eric -

Re slurs: the horizontal location problems appear to have been fixed in beta 16, and thank you very much. We still have the vertical problems to go, as shown in the first attached example, where the first slur should look like the second. NWC has always appeared to locate the ends of the slurs either both on noteheads or both on stems: IMHO, an upward slur should attach to whichever end of the note is up and a downward slur should attach to whichever end of the note is down, and these determinations should be independent of each other on the two ends of the slur. I realize that this will not solve all problems with slur shapes, but I think it would solve the majority of them.

Re split-stem dots, they are much better than in the earlier betas, and again thank you very much. However, as Rich said, there is still room for improvement. The example he gave was extreme, and I can understand how you might not try to fix it; but that still leaves the case of a split-stem chord in which the lower note is on a staff line and the upper is in a space, and that setup is pretty common. In my second attached example, the first set of dots should look more or less like the second (one cannot get this exactly right, even with layering; the lower dot should actually be closer to the staff line). The program currently appears to avoid dot overlap in these cases by relocating the upper dot a bit higher; it should instead be avoiding it by relocating the lower dot quite a bit lower.

All of which you knew. Just trying to encourage you to act on that knowledge.

One question: you mention that a registry hack will shift between the XP and 95-98-Me line drawing algorithms. Which is the default? I presume it would be the XP version, but that isn't clear from your description.

Cheers,

Bill

<edit> since writing this, I have noticed some instances in NWC in which slurs begin on noteheads and end on stems. I guess my observation now would be that the conditions which determine the outcome of the conditional statements in the code regarding beginning and ending points of slurs need to be revised to repair problems like the one in my first example -WA

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #118 – 2010-01-19 08:07 pm

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2010-01-19 05:44 pm

One question: you mention that a registry hack will shift between the XP and 95-98-Me line drawing algorithms. Which is the default? I presume it would be the XP version, but that isn't clear from your description.

The default is indicated by the name. The XP method is used on all Windows NT based platforms (2000, XP, Vista, and 7), and the 95 method is used by default on those indicated systems. If you are using XP or later, you probably do not need to worry about it. In fact, under normal conditions, nobody should need to worry about.

I do not foresee any significant new changes to slurs for the 2.1 release.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #119 – 2010-01-20 12:27 am

Staccato sound:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:2
|Chord|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Can't I put staccato on two notes, without using layer staff?

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #120 – 2010-01-20 07:31 am

I think there's a very simple fix to the dottted note cluster problem. 'Alfred' is quite specific

Quote

Two dots never share the same space.

But the fix is simply, where NW is putting two dots in the same space, just put one there and one in the space below. In many cases this will solve the problem without further ado.
With more complex clusters this will lose a dot (because the dot in the lower space will be duplicated) but the user can insert a text dot if so wished.

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0,1
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0,1,2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Text|Text:"    ."|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:4|Placement:BestFitForward|Color:1
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1,0,1
|Text|Text:"    ."|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:-2|Placement:BestFitForward|Color:1
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1,0,1,2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Text|Text:"    ."|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:-4|Placement:BestFitForward|Color:1
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-3,-2,0,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

The first two chords would be correct, the last three would need extra dots shown in red.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #121 – 2010-01-20 07:48 am

I seem to recall this being looked at some time ago with unsatisfactory results. I would certainly like to see it revisited, hopefully with a solution.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #122 – 2010-01-20 04:10 pm

Quote from: NoteWorthy Online – 2010-01-19 03:42 pm

Beta 16 is now available from the start of this topic. It includes the following fixes and enhancements:
Fix chord member add where new note conflicts with existing note

Perhaps: "Allow chord member add where new note conflicts with existing note"
Fix is a bit strong. Maybe it is good enough. Some things are always going to need a layer...

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #123 – 2010-01-20 05:37 pm

Peter, if you have a three-note cluster with all three notes just a step apart, and if all dots have to be in spaces, and if no space can have more than two dots, than you are, ipso facto, going to lose one dot. In any cluster like that, there are only two spaces available.

I don't think this matters. I think the only place this note formation will ever show up is in keyboard music or in reduced study scores, and I think in either case the extra dot will be understood. The thing that needs to be fixed, here, is NWC's current method of dealing with dots in two-note clusters, which produces spaces with two dots in them any time the lower note of the cluster is on a line. In all other cases, the dot for the note on the line should go in the space above; but in that case, the dot for the note on the line should go in the space below. Ideally, it should go near the top of the space, but I would settle for putting it in the middle. In fact, if it goes in the middle, it will simplify the code in those cases where you do have a dotted three-note cluster. NWC won't have to take the dot off one of the notes. They will fall in exactly the same place and will look like one dot on the printed page.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #124 – 2010-01-20 07:14 pm

Sorry to say 'Alfred' disagrees with you. The dot is always absolutely central in the space, and extra dots can (should?) be added above and below as required (but, I think, no more than one of each) to compensate for the lack of available spaces.

That said, my suggestion completely solves the problem of any two note cluster. Interestingly a split-stem two-note cluster is treated correctly all the time so at present NWC is inconsistent!

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #125 – 2010-01-20 08:14 pm

Quote from: Peter Edwards – 2010-01-20 07:14 pm

Interestingly a split-stem two-note cluster is treated correctly all the time so at present NWC is inconsistent!

By "treated correctly all the time" I hope you don't mean that NWC treats them correctly, because it doesn't: half the time it ends up with two dots occupying one space. That's what we're asking Eric to fix.

Re good old Alfred, if you've read my previous posts, you know that I don't treat him with the same reverence everyone else here seems to. I prefer to go by the practices I observe in scores that have been well-engraved by hand, and in my own score library, the old engravers usually (emphasize usually) off-centered the dot for a note on a staff line: downward if the dot was in the space above the note, upward if it was in the space below. I checked that before I posted the first time, so I'm reasonably sure I'm correct. However - as I said - I can see the advantage of always centering the dot in NWC, and I'm comfortable with that. As to making sure all dots are present for a three-notes-or-greater cluster, I can't remember ever seeing that. A cursory check of a few piano scores in my library doesn't find any dotted three-note clusters, so I can't confirm or deny. I do think, however, that an extra dot a full space away from the note it applied to would be more confusing than helpful.

Sorry to be an old curmudgeon here....

Cheers,

Bill

<edit> I kept looking, and have now found some three-note dotted clusters, in my Peer International score of Charles Ives' Over the Pavements for piano and chamber orchestra, printed in 1954. Most of the clusters in this work (the space-line-space clusters, that is; line-space-line clusters have space for all the dots next to the noteheads) are as Peter described, with the extra dot in the space below the cluster, which is unoccupied by any note. A few actually show two dots in a single space. So I stand corrected on that point. But I still think it looks a bit weird.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #126 – 2010-01-21 02:29 pm

I was referring specifically to split stem clusters of two note as in:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:-1
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-1,0
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:0
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:0,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

The problem for two note clusters only occurs in the final instance and can easily be fixed.

Agreed that three or more notes can produce problems whatever the stem arrangement, but these too can be made more satisfactory than the present effort.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #127 – 2010-01-24 07:26 pm

Quote

Beta 16 is now available from the start of this topic.

I've been trying to find it for 15 minutes now. No luck. Each beta announcement says the same thing, but since users can configure the forum to show older message first or last, it can be hard to find the start of the topic. Indeed, it is here, because I cannot find the link to beta 16.

There's room to improve the accessibility of the beta download, please. I suggest adding the URL to the About window that shows when you access Help.

There is a button there, but it links just to https://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwc2upg/?installed=2.0.99.12. That in turn links to the home page http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/, and none of those links go to the beta download.

I'm lost and frustrated.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #128 – 2010-01-24 07:45 pm

David, if you go to the very first message that Eric posted on the 23rd December 2009, you will find the link at the end of that first message.

Here is a link:

https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7044.msg48312#msg48312

I have my posts sorted so that the most recent come first which means that for me, the link is far away when I read this topic.
For me, at the end of this page, I have page links that say 1,2,3 and Go Down. So to get to it, I have to click 3 and then navigate to the end message (which is in reality the first message in this topic) and there I can find the link.

But I do agree it would be easier if the link to the beta was in the message that announced it. And when a new one was announced, the old attachment removed on the old message - just so that there is not many betas available for download.
Having said that - once you get used to where it is, you know that it's always going to be there, so you do know where to find it.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #129 – 2010-01-24 07:48 pm

Thanks, Richard. I figured it was something like that, but scrolling down and through 3 pages to find the link is frustrating. I'm grateful for your assistance.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #130 – 2010-01-24 07:56 pm

Eric,
Thinking about David's point - perhaps when a new beta is announced, in that announcement, how about a link to the first message (just as I did in my reply to David), and a comment that the link can be found at the end of the message? All such links would then take you to whatever the current beta is - just a thought.

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #131 – 2010-01-24 08:21 pm

Better still, why not a hyperlink to the latest beta, or a link to the message announcing it, on the page you arrive at when you check for updates from the Help menu of whatever beta version you're currently using?

Re: NoteWorthy Composer 2.1 Beta 16

Reply #132 – 2010-01-24 08:46 pm