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Topic: Accent Placement (Read 14828 times) previous topic - next topic

Accent Placement

Hi,

I'd really like to be able to control where an accent mark is place without having to do it manually. Most of the music I get has the accent marks above or below the staff, depending on which way the stem is pointing. This makes the accent more obvious when playing the music. I find the current set up difficult to read as the accent appears just above the note, so when the note is a B the accent appears within the staff.

Any chance of this sort of functionallity?

Cheers
Steve

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #1 –
G'day Steve,
I'd like a little extra control too, but we can choose to have articulations on the stems of notes...

Highlight the note/chord or group of notes/chords, press <Ctrl-Enter> to get the dialogue box up and select the "Use stem for articulations" checkbox.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #2 –
Hi Lawrie,

Thanks for the prompt reply, but using the stem for the articulations seems the wrong way around to me. I prefer the articulation to appear nearest to the note head but above or below the staff depending on which way the stem goes.

Say I have a B on the Treble Clef. This can appear both with stem up or down. If the stem is down I'd like to place the articulation above the staff.

Does that make sense?

Cheers
Steve

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #3 –
I have also been bothered by the placement of accent marks within the staff, where they are difficult to read, and where they almost never appear in printed music. However, there is nothing abnormal about accent marks above the stem instead of above the notehead, and this will solve the problem much of the time, as Lawrie points out.

It would still be nice to have some control for those times when neither head nor stem placement will get the accent into the white space above or below the staff, or when accents collide with other score marks.

Bill

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #4 –
G'day Steve,
like I said, I'd like extra control too.  What I mentioned is simply what we have at the moment...

I'm pretty sure I've put this one on the wishlist - maybe you could do likewise?

http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/composer/wishlist.php

In the meantime, given this is the NWC2 forum, a user tool could be devised to replace the notated articulations with text ones where we want 'em.  Only problem with that is they won't actually do anything to the playback.  For that we'd need hidden, sounding and visible, muted staves.  Better to have greater placement control.

I've been playing with a text barline replacer (it uses a font I've built for the job - gives a handwritten feel to barlines to try and match in with SwingDings but its had to go on the shelf for a while - I've been busy) - that may make a reasonable starting point for a tool like this.  I'll think about it, but don't hold your breath...  Perhaps some of the user tool makers out there would like a little exercise ;)

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #5 –
I would love to be able to put all articulations (including staccato) outside the staff automatically.
Currently, I add them as text.
Very time-consuming (and annoying).

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #6 –
Quote
I would love to be able to put all articulations (including staccato) outside the staff automatically.

So would I.

Bill

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #7 –
If I am having to force stem direction, the thing on the other side of the note is probably another note.  I would also like the option of putting staccato dots, accents, tenutos, slurs, ties, etc. at the other end of the note.
Since 1998

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #8 –
I've now been using the place articulation on the stem and that seems to work reasonable well, apart from the fact I have to change the note every time I place an articulation. Is there any way to set this as the default before I wear out my Ctl and E keys?

Cheers
Steve

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #9 –
G'day Steve,
mate, you can just enter all your notes with appropriate articulations up front, then highlight them as a block - whole staff at once if you like - press <Alt-Enter> and select the "Notes" tab in the dialogue, then you can set articulations on stem for every note all at once...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #10 –
FWIW, here is an easy workaround for whole notes:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Whole,Accent|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=4,ArticulationsOnStem
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole,Accent|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=2,ArticulationsOnStem
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Quote from: Warren Porter –
If I am having to force stem direction, the thing on the other side of the note is probably another note.  I would also like the option of putting staccato dots, accents, tenutos, slurs, ties, etc. at the other end of the note.
That would be an enhancement to putting 2 voices on one staff. NoteWorthy seems to have abandoned all work in this area in favor of layering. While useful, I think this would require substantial additions to the user interface. For both articuations and slurs, there would need to be options to apply them to the top, bottom or both voice(s).

More control of ties is a good idea. Currently, a "^" in the 'Pos:' or 'Pos2:' portion of the object cause a tie. If that that could be extended so that "%" would be a tie down, "&" a tie up and "$" an invisible tie, NWC2 would be much improved. It could be considered an "advanced feature", accessible only by User Tool or manually modifing clipboard data.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
That would be an enhancement to putting 2 voices on one staff. NoteWorthy seems to have abandoned all work in this area in favor of layering. While useful, I think this would require substantial additions to the user interface. For both articuations and slurs, there would need to be options to apply them to the top, bottom or both voice(s).

More control of ties is a good idea. Currently, a "^" in the 'Pos:' or 'Pos2:' portion of the object cause a tie. If that that could be extended so that "%" would be a tie down, "&" a tie up and "$" an invisible tie, NWC2 would be much improved. It could be considered an "advanced feature", accessible only by User Tool or manually modifing clipboard data.
Attached is something I'm currently transcribing.  Check out around measure 21 where the accents are.
Since 1998

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
Attached is something I'm currently transcribing.  Check out around measure 21 where the accents are.
Why attach an NWC 1.75 file?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
I had forgotten this was the NWC 2 forum--have replaced the attachment from previous post.
Good example of bad slur placement (with or without the accents).

If I wanted accents on both stems, I'd put them in as text and simulate the accent with dynamic velocity on this staff or dynamic volume (or MPC Expression) on a hidden staff using the same MIDI channel.

NWC2 might be changed to support something like '|Dur2:Half,Dotted,Accent'. As it is now, accents might as well be handled as 'Opts:Accent'. Staccato is duration related, Tenuto is usually duration related, but Accent is not.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #15 –
I have replaced the attachment (again).  Where the "articulationsonstem" came from the first time (copy it to the clipboard) I don't know but when I copied the last few measures to the end of V23 the accents do indeed appear between the notes (vertically).  Is this an option that can be done w/o working on the clipboard?
Since 1998

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Warren Porter –
Is this an option that can be done w/o working on the clipboard?
Check: Use stem for articulations

I agree that NWC2's default behavior is not optimal. When an articulation is added to a RestChord or split Chord, 'Use stem for articulations' should be automatically checked. It can always be unchecked later if you need some strange effect. NWC's behavior is to always check it for RestChords and never check it for Notes or Chords. IMO, it should be auto-checked for RestChords and split Chords if (and only if) an articulation is present.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #17 –
Quote
Why attach an NWC 1.75 file?
So that everyone is able to check it out.
Now some people are out of the loop...

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #18 –
Quote from: K.A.T.
So that everyone is able to check it out.
Now some people are out of the loop...

Well....this is the NWC2 section of the forum. Normally, one would expect those hanging out here to have NWC2 installed. And it's important for the examples to match the version of NWC being talked about, else they might exhibit different behavior in critical places.

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #19 –
How about this creative accent placement on the dotted half note?

This is from an 1885 printing of Mendelssohn's On Wings of Song. I'd say this was stamped and scratched on a copper sheet. None too well either, look at the baseline variation in "charms". The 'c' is too low and the 's' too high. Still, it is highly readable. You just don't see music this carefully organized anymore.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Rick G.
The 'c' is too low and the 's' too high.

And the 'm' is tilted. The type was racked none too carefully. But you're certainly right about the readability of the music. Just goes to show that technically correct and correct are sometimes two different things.

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #21 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
The type was racked none too carefully.
I doubt that it was "racked" at all. As I wrote above, I think the type was stamped into a copper sheet.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Accent Placement

Reply #22 –
Well, I think you're right. But that doesn't preclude the use of a rack of movable type to stamp the playing instructions and other text into the copper sheet, and I think that's what they did - although the letters could have been individually stamped, instead. Hard to tell at this remove, and it doesn't much matter. There's certainly some misalignment, whatever the method.