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Topic: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes (Read 16939 times) previous topic - next topic

Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Can you tell me how to enter three note chords that have individual timing for each note of the chord? For example a measure starts with a standard chord on the treble clef, high E ¼ note/high C ¼ note/G ¼ note; then the second chord is high E dotted ¼ note/high C ¼ note/G dotted ¼ note; finishing the measure with a third chord of high D 1/8 note/high B ¼ note/F 1/8 note.

I believe I am having problem because the stems are conflicting in NWC. That is, it is programmed that one notes stem must go up or down and the following timing note must have a stem going in the opposite direction, but when the middle note is the one with the different timing, there is no place for the stem to go and be unique from the notes above and below it. Furthermore it become even more confusing for NWC if all three notes have independent timing because you have three timings and only two directions (up and down), thus NWC won’t seem to allow me to enter a chord such as High D dotted ¼ note/high B ¼ note/F ½ note.

Is there some way to enter this, or is NWC not capable of doing this?


Praising Jesus,

---Mike

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #1 –
I think the simplest solution would be to use layered staffs. The first chord seems to be pretty standard.

In your second chord, the top staff would have the two dotted notes, and the bottom layer would have the undotted one.

In the third chord, enter just the eighth note in the top staff, stem up F and E. Select note properties (Control E) and make their note offset value = 1.  Then in the bottom staff, add an eighth rest, set to visibility = never, and place your quarter note B with a stem up. 

(I set the invisible notes to be slightly grey so you can see them.  Your colour settings would normally make them white so they wouldn't show.)

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #2 –
Don't you want to do a note-offset on that last quarter note (crotchet)?

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #3 –
You may be right, Cyril.  I play reeds, so I don't really know what the chord should look like - I seldom see chords. 

I didn't do the offset because I wanted the quarter's notehead to be left of the common stem. If I had offset it, it would be the other side of the stem, and I think it would create a chord with the notes between two stems, one running up and one running down. 

I experimented just now with having the 8ths have stem up and the quarter stem down, with the offset on the quarter instead of the 8ths.  I think it makes it more difficult to read the value of the bottom 8th.

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.  However, whatever the correct presentation is, I hope my suggestion helps 1611kjb get started.

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #4 –
Threre are several problems here, at least there seem to be for me.  I've tried to reproduce your example and cannot do it.  The two staves, unlayered, have different numbers of beats in them!  Assuming one beat per quarter note, the first has four beats, the second four and a half.  As a result, the closing bar lines don't line up.  Could you post the .nwc file so I could examine it?

But there is a deeper problem.  First, and trivially fixable, example doesn't match the description, as there is no mention of the lone C in the second beat (the OP just mentions three chords).  However removing it doesn't help the mismatch in the timing.  I can't really tell what is wanted here.  Perhaps there are really three voices, where the they start on a chord, but then go their own ways.  I've tried notating this possiblilty in two ways, but neither is very attractive.  The first is probably the more correct, as the voices are kept distinct.  But in both a .5 extra note spacing is needed to keep the "chords" visually together.  Sorry I couldn't do better.

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #5 –
Sorry, Cyril, I didn't save the file.  Essentially, the two examples you attached are as good as anything I can come up with, so there's no point in me trying to recreate my example.  The image was pretty much exactly what the staffs looked like.
 
I too think 1611KJB was trying to combine three different vocal or instrumental parts on one staff, i.e., a condensed score, instead of writing chords to be played by one instrument.

The quarter C on beat 2 was a mistake in notation.  I overlooked removing it, and instead unconsciously  compensated with the hidden rest in the lower staff.  Go figure!

The 8th rest in the lower staff was intended to align the final quarter with the eighth chord, but yes, it causes 1/2 a beat too much.  It's wrong anyhow, since that note is supposed to start right on beat 3 while the rest of the chord starts 1/2 a beat later.  Sigh!  I told you I've made mistakes...

I think 1611KJB is trying to write notation that is wrong in theory (because the last quarter note starts before the rest of that chord) which is why NWC won't do it.  When I first took on the challenge, I thought of starting with "How would you notate it in pencil?"  I hindsight, I'm sorry I didn't.

The chords described by 1611KJB play back like this:

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-2,1,3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-2^,1,3^|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-2,0^,3|Opts:Stem=Down,Tie=Upward
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,XNoteSpace=3
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

and I think that's a pretty good way to write it.
 

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #6 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
I too think 1611KJB was ...
I think 1611KJB is ...
I think 1611kjb was trying to get help on NWC 1.75 and is now confused by NWC2 clips and attachments containing elements (like 'XNoteSpace') that are not supported by NWC 1.75.

There probably is no satisfactory NWC 1.75 solution that does not involve a custom font.

I agree with Cyril that 1611kjb's first paragraph is musically impossible. Perhaps 1611kjb could clarify it. Knowing the Time Signature would help.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #7 –
Unfortunately, I don't have NWC1 installed, but extra note spacing has been in NWC1 for some time now.  What I should have done is save the examples as NWC1 files.  Sorry about that.  And thanks for confirming that the OP had some sort of error, either of expression or thought.
 

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #8 –
When I created my graphic, I was aware this was the NWC1 forum, so I tried the notation in both programs (IIRC). 

You're right, Rick, about the NWC2 clips.  The new attached graphic illustrates it.






Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #9 –
I think 1611KJB's example is correct musically, but probably should be notated on two staves. If you sort out the voices properly, layering solves the problem adequately. I've attached my layered version, but I like the look of the music better if "allow layering" is unchecked.

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #10 –
Nicely done, William. 




Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #11 –
Thanks, David. It's about the same as the way you did it, just spread over two staves and layered.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #12 –
Quote
I think 1611KJB's example is correct musically, but probably should be notated on two staves.

Not really, the last bit reads:

Quote
finishing the measure with a third chord of high D 1/8 note/high B ¼ note/F 1/8 note.

To me, at least, "chord" implies that the three notes start at the same time, not the B followed a half beat later by the D & F.

Re: Entering three note chords with individually timed notes

Reply #13 –
Cyril, the original poster hasn't kicked into this conversation since his/her first post, so we can't be sure; but I read the post as coming from a somewhat musically unsophisticated person. So I don't think he/she thinks about chords the same way you and I do. I don't even think these are really chords - I think they're separate voices sounding together, and 1611KJB thinks of them as chords because they are notes sounding simultaneously. I thought about breaking them out on three staves to emphasize their independence, but two of the voices move in parallel, so I stayed with two staves. We can't assume that everyone who uses NWC is a trained musician, and we have to take that into account when working out solutions to problems like these.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Have a very merry Christmas -

Bill