Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Overriding lyric standard rules (Read 8366 times) previous topic - next topic

Overriding lyric standard rules

I would like to produce the following song configuration

Treble staff  | H | Q Q | H
Bass staff    | H | H    | H
Lyrics:        | 1  | 2-2 | 3

where H indicates a half note, Q indicates a quarter note, and the numbers indicate syllables.  I want the lyrics under the bass staff but sung to the treble staff, i.e. I want the hyphen to appear, indicating that the one-syllable word is sung to the two quarter notes.  Is there a way to get this appearance?   The normal rules put the second 2 under the third bar.
Thanks, George Leeman

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #1 –
Enter the Lyrics on the Treble Staff. In Lyric->Configuration->Staff Placement, make the Offset -22 or so. You will probably want to make Staff Vertical Size-> Lower: ~12

Something like the attachment.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #2 –
Very clever ... thanks for such a quick reply.
--- George Leeman

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #3 –
Another way, not as elegant, would be to add a third staff, to be layered under the second one.  All notes would be invisible, and the staff could be muted, but you'd put the lyrics on this staff in their normal position.

Staff 3:

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Lyric for staff 3
1 2-2 3
with a single line count, placed normally below the staff, no offset. 

... but I prefer Lawrie's Rick'smethod.

(Sorry, Rick.  The way I've configured the display I can't see the whole thread, so if I get distracted while writing, I may forget who wrote what I'm commenting on.  And I guess sometimes I just forget to check. Merry Christmas!)
 

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #4 –
Personally, I think the layered solution is preferable.  The problem with the big offset is, that in case of some change, such as adding an above-the-staff item (such as a flow direction) one may have to go back and fiddle with the value of the offset - and on a staff not tightly associated with the modified staff.  I feel that keeping things that can interact as closely tied as possible makes later adjustments simpler. 

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #5 –
I prefer Rick's method in general, although if the music is at all complex I think I would go with layers.

I'm curious, though, why it should be necessary to do this. In the circumstances I can think of where it might be appropriate - e.g., vocal descant above the main melody - I think one would want the syllables to match the lower line of music; and the appropriate way to indicate multiple notes on one syllable is usually a slur. Is there a reason that won't work here?

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #6 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
why it should be necessary to do this.
For a piano player, having the lyrics between the grand staves is about the worst possible place for them.
If the bass line doesn't go too low, lyrics below is the way to go.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #7 –
Thanks, Rick - I see that....or maybe I don't. Are we talking about piano reductions of vocal scores? Normally, vocal parts are on separate lines from the piano part. Perhaps lyrics as cues for the accompanist? Or a different (better) way to write hymns?

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #8 –
Mainly lyrics as cues for the accompanist. I get sheet music with page turns in both directions that I must perform with a competent vocalist without rehearsal. To eliminate the page turns, I often must reduce this to 2 staves which may or may not include the melody. To stay with the vocalist, full or partial lyrics are a must. I've put them just about everywhere, which is why I had a quick answer to the original question.

For hymns, each verse goes on its own staff as text. NWC's lyric methods are nowhere near adequate to the task of hymn lyrics. I've been posting my progress with hymns in the beta newsgroup for several years.

Recent sample attached. This is a B&W png conversion of the EMF without any post processing. The methods are too printer and version dependent for me to attach the nwc file.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #9 –
OK - now I get it. When I accompany a singer, I'm playing guitar, so I have only one staff to worry about....not an issue, there.

The Veni Emmanuel setting looks great. I've done some strophic multi-voice settings successfully, but they never look this good. I'll post this and then go visit the beta forum.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #10 –
Rick, I went to the newsgroup and looked at the NWC version of Veni Emmanuel that you posted there. I'm blown away by the effort you put into it and by the various tricks you've been using to make the music look like a page from a standard hymnal. I'm not sure I'd have the patience. I'm even less sure that my wife would have the patience (to put up with me while I worked on it). My hat is off and my mouth is agape.

One quick question: I think I understand most of what you did, and why you did it on separate staves. But what is that bottom, empty staff there for?

Best of the season,

Bill

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #11 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
One quick question: I think I understand most of what you did, and why you did it on separate staves. But what is that bottom, empty staff there for?
With 4 verses showing, not much. But if you take some or all of the verses out of Contents, it sets a minimum distance between the systems. I could use the bottom staff, but using one with no other contents let me rearrange things more easily.

Thanks for you kind remarks. Yes, it takes some time, but I'm down to hours rather than days. My wife does crossword puzzles, I do hymns.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #12 –
I compose; my wife plays computer games, does volunteer work, and wishes her husband would spend more time with her out in the Oregon mountains. But after forty years of marriage, I think she is beginning to understand: I love the mountains; I am driven by the music.

Have a very merry Christmas,

Bill

Re: Overriding lyric standard rules

Reply #13 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
I think I understand most of what you did, and why you did it on separate staves. But what is that bottom, empty staff there for?
For me it was the other way around. The empty staff was easy, but without further looking into things I do not understand. And even then, I am not sure I would...